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I've increasingly noticed a trend on Stack Overflow where people who genuinely do not know something, ask something without knowing the full details of their question and get their question closed for not being focused etc? Usually without any commentary on what they need to look at next to be able to ask that question in a more focused way.

Here's what I see is the problem, the more we learn, the clearer we can see what we don't know, but to someone that recently arriving and has everything to learn they can easily be marked as not being focused because they have no idea on what they need to ask. I'm not talking about a broad question, but one that in asking itself is seeking guidance on what to step into next to understand the question better.

There's a big difference between 'How do I make a online shop?' to 'how do I upload a file using node.js?'

Personally I think it's down to the expectation on those answering, not the question maker. If a post could be tagged to say that it's potentially broad because the person asking the question really just doesn't know what the next step is then those answering would be less inclined to close the post for snotty reasons because it's seen as a waste of time.

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    The requirements for questions are the same for everybody. Just because somebody is new does not mean we should compromise the integrity of SO's goal - a high quality repository of knowledge.
    – VLAZ
    Dec 7, 2021 at 16:51
  • @VLAZ, agreed but knowledge is subjective to where you personally comprehend it. If a person asks a question that highlights that they don't know something, shouldn't that garner responses of where to find that knowledge? Dec 7, 2021 at 16:56
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    Sure... and it's perfectly fine to provide a nudge/hint toward said resources in comments while handling the closure. But also not required.
    – Kevin B
    Dec 7, 2021 at 16:59
  • Depends - if it's a practical problem with clear answer, it's welcome in the collection of Q&A of practical and clear problems. If it's something like "How do I build a web shop" then it is not. There isn't a clear answer to it. There are many and there are whole books and even courses on that. Not something you can lookup for reference.
    – VLAZ
    Dec 7, 2021 at 16:59
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    We also expect people to do some research before they ask, @ChrisMorse . More often than not, I personally find that these people you're defending haven't done so. "how do I upload a file using node.js?" and "How do I make a online shop?" really aren't that different when the user hasn't even made a start, made no attempts, researched or explained at what point they got stuck. The answer involves writing large answers to a "one line question"; these are far too broad. If they explained exactly where they were stuck, then they would likely get a better experience,
    – Thom A
    Dec 7, 2021 at 17:00
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    eh, no, how do I upload a file using node.js? isn't defacto too broad. If it specifies which method they want to use, it would be a specific enough question to create a useful QA pair without a displayed attempt.
    – Kevin B
    Dec 7, 2021 at 17:02
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    New learners are usually paid exactly the amount of respect that they pay to the volunteers who run this site. If they show effort, research the etiquette of the site and follow the rules, then people are extremely willing to help. If they don't do those things, then their question gets deleted. That seems pretty reasonable to me.
    – user438383
    Dec 7, 2021 at 17:03
  • @VLAZ, I'll be honest, I picked the online shop one because I saw something remarkably similar and that one was quite rightly closed, but I also saw the file upload node.js one which I thought was unfairly closed as it seemed that what was lacking in the question was understanding on what next to learn and the commentary against it wasn't overly helpful in directing them. Dec 7, 2021 at 17:08
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    If you have specific examples that you think are unfairly closed, that might help your reasoning, @ChrisMorse . Or we can explain why those questions aren't suitable for the site in more detail than the closure reason.
    – Thom A
    Dec 7, 2021 at 17:09
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    As a side note, as well, I would suggest that people with a good amount of reputation are far more likely to be on the receiving end of down/close votes when they ask a low quality question. People with a good amount of reputation are expected by then to know how the site works, and yet I still see questions from such users that are far too broad or ignore basic rules like images of code or data. I will freely admit, I am much quicker at downvoting/VTCing questions from those that should know better (and almost always without comment). I would at least tell a new user to not use the image.
    – Thom A
    Dec 7, 2021 at 17:21
  • Yes I did, didn't I. This is a discussion question on general practises on SO, it's not a personal attack against anyone or any thing, however having seen this pattern I thought I'd at least open a discussion. Also, it's a pattern, I'm not interested in a debate on why X was closed, that's not relevant here so no, I won't be citing specific examples. It would just perpetuate the negative issues here without applying any positive motion forwards. I appear to have kicked a hornets nest so for any stings felt I genuinely apologise, it was not my intention and for that again I apologise. Dec 7, 2021 at 17:24
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    Yes, unfortunately, this is a topic that comes up often, but that isn't because we feel that the site is "unwelcoming". The problem that the more experienced users have is that often new users treat the site as something it isn't; a free coding site, free consultancy, gief me da codes! Such users often find themselves on the pointy ends of the downvote and close vote sticks, and then suggest that the site is "mean" and "unwelcoming", when they haven't taken the time to find out about the site they misused. Some users do make the effort, and they have a great experience.
    – Thom A
    Dec 7, 2021 at 17:45
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    Huh? I've had questions downvoted into oblivion plenty of times regardless of my rep. What makes you think you're so special? Yes, new users disproportionately ask bad questions so they get downvoted. Oh, and water is wet, fyi.
    – MonkeyZeus
    Dec 7, 2021 at 20:26
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    Stack Overflow only values the contributions of people who have some knowledge to contribute. Full stop. This isn't a help desk; our mission is not to help individuals. As stated in the tour, our mission is to build a library of high-quality answers to programming questions. If you have no idea where to start, or, as you said, "genuinely do not know something [and] ask something without knowing the full details", then you are not contributing useful content to this site, so your contributions will not be valued and your non-useful question will be closed. That's working fully by design.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Dec 8, 2021 at 0:13
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    "If a post could be tagged to say that it's potentially broad because the person asking the question really just doesn't know what the next step is…" You've already noticed we have this feature. It's not a "tag", because tags define the specific technical content. It is a banner that says the question is closed until it has been improved (via edits) to meet our requirements. If you or anyone else can improve those questions by making them more detailed and specific, then you should do so. Posts aren't closed for "snotty reasons", they're closed b/c they're unsuitable in their present form.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Dec 8, 2021 at 0:16

1 Answer 1

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I've increasingly noticed a trend on Stack Overflow where people who genuinely do not know something, ask something without knowing the full details of their question and get their question closed for not being focused etc? Usually without any commentary on what they need to look at next to be able to ask that question in a more focused way.

There's no sin in not knowing something; that's why you're asking a question. But we need to set very clear expectations. The more specific your problem statement is and the more details you provide, the less chance there is of your question being closed.

We don't comment on votes because I don't feel like becoming a pin cushion for your angst on why I'm not solving your problem for you.

There's a big difference between 'How do I make a online shop?' to 'how do I upload a file using node.js?'

No there isn't. In both cases, you're asking an open-ended question with little context into what you're struggling with, and what you've attempted to solve it. The problem statements are not specific and there are a multitude of ways to solve or address your problem.

Now if you had framed a question such as, "In making an online shop, I'm having trouble reflecting multiple of the same item in my shopping cart" + applicable code or, "Making an upload form with Node.JS but I get back a 415 response from the server" + applicable code, then we could actually get somewhere.

Here's what I see is the problem, the more we learn, the clearer we can see what we don't know, but to someone that recently arriving and has everything to learn they can easily be marked as not being focused because they have no idea on what they need to ask.

Stack Overflow's strength really isn't in tutorials or tutoring others. We're not going to ding you for what you don't know, but don't come to us expecting us to teach you everything, either.

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