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Recently I found a question that seemed relevant to me and the discussion also provided appropriate answers. Nevertheless, the question was closed and this was displayed:

Enter image description here

To me, the question as well as the answers seemed relevant. I believe that new and/or updated answers would be reasonable as well. Obviously, the question was indicated to be "Off-topic". I read through general guidelines, however, I cannot make useful edits to overcome this issue because I do not know a precise reason. Since I really would like to help and improve the question, I do have the following questions:

  1. Is it possible to see who marked it to be closed if a was not the author of the original question?
  2. Is there a public discussions page to reveal possible improvements?

In case you are interested, the specific question that made me ask this question here is this one.

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    Why do you want / need to know who voted to close the question? Also note that "relevant" is not the same as on-topic on Stack Overflow. Without knowing the question you're referring to, it's hard to tell you more. Nov 21, 2021 at 12:59
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    In addition to the timeline, everyone with the close vote privilege can see who voted to close in the close message itself. But how would it help you to know who voted to close?
    – BDL
    Nov 21, 2021 at 12:59
  • Is this the question you mean: How to change default directory in Windows Subsystem for Linux? Nov 21, 2021 at 13:05
  • I totally agree. This is why I proposed this feature request, a long time ago Can we have the ability to flag for reopening?. While some changes were made, like pushing edited questions into the reopen queue, it was never completely addressed.
    – user000001
    Nov 21, 2021 at 13:16
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    It was closed as being about general computing hardware and software. See bullet point 6 of What topics can I ask about here?: "Questions about general computing hardware and software are off-topic for Stack Overflow unless they directly involve tools used primarily for programming." (important is "primarily"). Nov 21, 2021 at 13:24
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    The question topic is not suited in SO. Its more related to SuperUser. I don't see how this question can be improved in anyway to make it suitable
    – Suraj Rao
    Nov 21, 2021 at 13:24
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    @SurajRao You are completely wrong. Wsl is a tool used primarily by programmers, read the help center.
    – user000001
    Nov 21, 2021 at 13:26
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    @user000001 I wouldn't say its primarily used for programming. Its definitely used for programming, but I see it as often used to run general linux software on a windows machine.
    – BDL
    Nov 21, 2021 at 13:34
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    From the WSL Home Page: The Windows Subsystem for Linux lets developers run a GNU/Linux environment -- including most command-line tools, utilities, and applications -- directly on Windows, unmodified, without the overhead of a traditional virtual machine or dual-boot setup. Nov 21, 2021 at 13:42
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    @user000001: We have some ancient configuration software for measuring devices running which was originally developed for windows 98 and linux. The windows build doesn't run on windows 10 anymore, but the linux build runs fine in WSL. I also saw several people running fluid simulations on windows 10 which were only available for linux. Before WSL, they had to install windows and linux on their machines, now we can get around the linux installation sometimes.
    – BDL
    Nov 21, 2021 at 13:52
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    Hmm, interesting that this discussion is so active. However, I did not mean to discuss WSL (a great tool btw) but how to improve questions on stackoverflow. So thinking about that: there is no discussion section, correct? It is not possible to see reasons for a close, except for the "general tag" on the close message?
    – Greenfly77
    Nov 21, 2021 at 13:57
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    And now, my question is marked as useless? Currently -2... seems I do not understand stack at all... Does my question make no sense to you?
    – Greenfly77
    Nov 21, 2021 at 13:59
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    For people other than the OP, it's not easy to make questions on-topic, because only the OP may have crucial info necessary to bring a question into shape (the OP may sometimes supply it in a comment or even an answer and that info could be used, but that's rarely the case). Edits to a question should also not invalidate existing answers, which needs also to be taken into account and further reduces the possibilities. And if a question is just off-topic for SO, there's not much to be done anyway. The "discussion section" is MSO. Nov 21, 2021 at 14:09
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    Voting on any of the Meta sites is different than on main sites. On Meta sites, votes much more strongly represent people's agreement or disagreement with the position expressed in the post, rather than just an expression of people's opinion on the quality of the post, although they can also reflect that. On bug reports, voting can represent people being able to reproduce the issue, or not. As a consequence, downvotes on Meta should not be automatically considered to mean that there are problems with the post. On the other hand, it doesn't hurt to double-check that the post quality is good.
    – Makyen Mod
    Nov 21, 2021 at 19:34

3 Answers 3

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The question was closed as off-topic as WSL questions are a grey area - asking about WSL in the context of programming is fine, but other contexts are not (e.g. asking how to install and run GIMP via WSL would belong on SuperUser). I believe the specific question is on-topic as setting a default home directory is something you might want to do in the context of programming, thus I just cast the last reopen vote. The question would be on-topic on SuperUser as well, as it would also be applicable in non-programming contexts.

In general, the main way to interact with closed questions is to earn 3000 reputation to gain access to close and reopen votes, and then vote to reopen the question. Until you get 3000 rep, your only option would be to bring attention to the question - either on meta, or in a related SO chat room - and hope that other people reopen the question for you. Keep in mind that bringing attention to a question might not always lead to your desired result; as user000001 said in their answer, it might very well lead to the question being deleted if it's actually off-topic.

Also, keep in mind that the main effect of closing a question is to prevent new answers from being posted. While closure status is part of the calculation for automatic deletion of posts, an upvoted question with upvoted answers will not be auto-deleted by the roomba. So if you just want to ensure the information in the question and answers remains accessible there might not be a practical difference between reopening the question and keeping it closed.

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  • "as it would also be applicable in non-programming contexts" -- IMHO, this is exactly what makes it off-topic. Per the on-topic guidance, for a software tool to be on-topic, it needs to be "software tools commonly used by programmers; and is a practical, answerable problem that is unique to software development" If you believe that it would be "applicable in non-programming contexts", then it can't be "unique to software development". Nov 27, 2021 at 15:53
  • @NotTheDr01ds that argument has been rejected countless times, for example in the context of editor questions - just because you can find a use case outside of software development doesn't mean the question should be closed on SO. And that's good because otherwise you would need to close a lot of shell questions, as most shell commands have a use outside of programming. IMO we could close/migrate more editor questions than we are doing ATM though. And anyways, if the question was closed because it should have been on SU then it should have been migrated there, not closed as off topic.
    – l4mpi
    Nov 29, 2021 at 7:26
  • Actually, in a chat with Machavity (mod) just a couple of days ago on the topic, the guidance was that non-programming shell questions are off-topic as well. He quoted Makyen (also mod), "most things that are being used as single commands or a set of commands not logically related (e.g. order doesn't matter) (with some exceptions for programming-based single commands) are general computing (grey area, use judgement). Things that are implementing logic, or a sequence of interrelated commands, are programming.". So yes, we close a lot of shell questions. Nov 29, 2021 at 12:41
  • Also, questions over 60 days old cannot be migrated (this one was right at 2 years). I would love to see more useful, non-programming questions and answers migrated, but apparently it's not technically possible. Questions under 60-days old may be migrated if the OP requests it by a mod, but it is (apparently) labor intensive (or at least time consuming if there are a lot of migration requests), so the mods have asked that it only be done if there are useful answers. Otherwise they ask the OP to repost on SU after it has been closed here. As non-mods, all we can do is vote-to-close. Nov 29, 2021 at 12:48
  • @NotTheDr01ds the guidance does not say "close that as off topic" but "grey area, use judgement"; so that contradicts your conclusion to close everything that's not "unique to software development". To give another counterexample, VCS such as git can be used for a lot of things that have nothing to do with programming (e.g. for authors writing a book or scientists writing a paper), and for most git questions it does not matter if the checked-in content is code or cooking recipes. But just because I can create a git repo of cooking recipes that doesn't make all of those questions off-topic.
    – l4mpi
    Nov 30, 2021 at 9:40
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I was the one who cast the initial close-vote on this one. Sorry I didn't chime in earlier, but I didn't see that it was under discussion here until someone posted another new answer to an old question (NATO) today.

I honestly do try to give as much leniency as I can to a question being "development/programming" related in most cases. In this case, I probably didn't read the question closely enough, since the OP starts out with "I am setting up my development environment". Some days, I might give it a pass based on that.

But ... technically it shouldn't matter. It really is off-topic IMHO, per my understanding of the on-topic guidance here:

  • software tools commonly used by programmers; and is
  • a practical, answerable problem that is unique to software development

I think the fact that those two points are on different lines confuses some people, but it's clearly an and situation there.

Many people do use WSL for software development. Many also use it for "learning Linux". Some use it for system administration (my primary use-case, personally). Setting the default starting directory for WSL in Windows Terminal is a question that all groups might have. That means, as far as I can tell, that it isn't "unique" to software development.

So I would propose that it really is, technically, off-topic. But again, I would often give it a pass based on the wording pointing to its "development environment" usage.

But I'd be interested in hearing more thoughts from the community. Should this type of question be "strictly closed" based on the on-topic guidance or "leniently allowed"?


Counterpoint

As @l4mpi pointed out in their answer here, closing really just prevents new answers from being posted. If a question such as this one has been here for two years and has multiple answers, is it "helpful" to prevent future (potentially better) answers?

In this case, I already knew a better (IMHO) answer existed, but I voted to close rather than answer. Of course, answering is easier and gets potential rep (and thus, I feel, why many people go this route), but I try to take the "moral high ground" and vote to close when I feel something is off-topic.

But is that useful to the site? That just leaves the older, potentially outdated answers "locked in place" with no ability to add new information if and when it becomes available.

Clearly, when a new question may get Roomba'd, it's better to close. But when it's a NATO situation, perhaps it's not as clear?

In this case, someone did actually add another answer just a week later (today). It's a great answer, based on the fact that Microsoft has added a new, related feature to WSL to make this easier. That answer wouldn't have been possible had the question stayed closed. I wasn't aware of it yet, and I try to stay on top of Windows Terminal and WSL improvements. So I'm kind of happy that the question was re-opened to allow this answer.

That said (counterpoint to the counterpoint?) ideally there would be an equivalent question on Super User where the updated answer could have been posted. Unfortunately, there's not -- Perhaps because people find the answer here (via general web search) and don't need to ask it on Super User.

And, since the community voted to re-open the question anyway, I've added my answer as well. I feel at least I did the right thing (maybe?) by voting to close first, then waiting for it to be invalidated before answering myself.

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  • I'm honestly curious what is a "NATO situation" in this context.
    – user000001
    Nov 27, 2021 at 16:36
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    @user000001 "New answer to old question" -- I had to look it up as well the first time I saw it. I believe it's the name of a page/tool available to 10k rep users. Nov 27, 2021 at 18:15
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    I think the fact that those two points are on different lines confuses some people, but it's clearly an and situation there. 👍 ~ * ~ Yes, it would have been much less confusing if the subordinate clause did not have a bullet on its own. Aug 2, 2022 at 14:48
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The current system is generally very biased against reopening, especially if you have fewer than 3K reputation points.

The official workflow is that if you disagree with a question being closed, and you don't have a lot of reputation, your main option is to suggest an edit on the question. Then the edit will be reviewed by three reviewers, so it can't be a trivial edit, it must add significant value to the question, otherwise, it will be rejected. In good questions like the one linked in the OP, this is quite hard to do.

Then, IF the edit is accepted, it will be added to the "reopen" queue, where reviewers will vote to reopen it if they agree with you. Even at this stage, the chances of success are slim. The queue would probably be better named as the "leave closed" queue.

Another option is to bring the issue up on meta, where in theory helpful high rep users can vote to reopen the question or explain why it is really off topic. As you have seen first hand, this is likely to also fail. Most of the time new users are downvoted to minus infinity for daring to even hint that a question could be wrongly closed.

In general, most people on meta believe that almost everything under discussion should be closed and deleted, so by bringing the discussion to meta, the most likely outcome is for the question to get deleted, instead of fixed.

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    everything should be closed and deleted ... I was so tempted to delete-vote this answer. :-) Nov 21, 2021 at 14:22
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    To suggest a significant edit to get a closed question reopened, the editor needs to know what information OP has or needs to change the question entirely to make it on topic. Can you provide a scenario when an editor can make a question reopen able?
    – Suraj Rao
    Nov 21, 2021 at 14:24
  • It depends on the question, for this question something like adding "When trying to setup my development environment, ..." in the beginning of the question would be enough. Of course, there will always be that guy that rejects it for "deviating from OPs intention".
    – user000001
    Nov 21, 2021 at 14:27
  • It would be helpful if the downvoters explain their votes in this instance. I can think of three conflicting downvote reasons: a) the answer is correct but I disagree with the state of affairs as presented b) the presented information doesn't reflect reality (and here is why) c) the answer is true, but I disagree with exposing the truth, because it hurts my agenda
    – user000001
    Nov 21, 2021 at 14:39
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    I downvoted because I think "In general most people on meta believe that almost everything should be closed and deleted" is wrong, and inflammatory. I have seen plenty of meta discussions where the consensus is that the SO question under discussion shouldn't have been closed; even that is the exception, the questions discussed on meta are not representative, because questions are more likely to be discussed here if there's something wrong with them. So the fact that the consensus on meta is often "the question is bad" doesn't mean we generally think everything should be closed and deleted.
    – kaya3
    Nov 21, 2021 at 14:57
  • @kaya3: Thank you for the constructive comment. I have revised that sentence because it was a bit sloppy and not true as written.
    – user000001
    Nov 21, 2021 at 15:02
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    I am not really sure adding "When trying to setup my development environment, ..." would suffice...
    – Suraj Rao
    Nov 21, 2021 at 15:18
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    I don't see any evidence for your claim that asking on Meta always leads to deletion. I have seen many times posts getting reopened and even undeleted.
    – Dharman Mod
    Nov 21, 2021 at 18:15
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    @user000001 No, I do not agree. I would estimate that there are statistically equal chances for reopening, but I have no data to support this.
    – Dharman Mod
    Nov 21, 2021 at 18:19
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    “… it must add significant value to the question, otherwise, it will be rejected…” Well, it should add some. ‘Significant’ might be overstating things a bit. More importantly, the edit has to make the question on topic to make it into the Reopen Queue. Recent changes allow reviewers to approve an edit but vote to keep it closed if it remains off topic.
    – BSMP
    Nov 22, 2021 at 0:07
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    Also, it only takes two people to review an edit if they both agree.
    – BSMP
    Nov 22, 2021 at 0:08
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    @user000001 "You have to admit that linking a closed question on meta is more likely to lead to deletion, than to the post being reopened" - I would guess that it's the most common outcome, but it's far from a foregone conclusion. On the other hand, most low-rep users who come to meta to complain about some amazing content that should totally be reopened link to open-ended or too broad garbage questions that should have never been posted in the first place, so of course it would get deleted after being brought to attention. This seems to be one of the exceptions to both rules.
    – l4mpi
    Nov 22, 2021 at 12:08
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    @user000001 agree that the question linked by OP is OK, that's why I said it's an exception to the rule. And it's open now as I just cast the last reopen vote.
    – l4mpi
    Nov 22, 2021 at 12:47
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    Your list of reasons to downvote excluded "4) I failed to make a cogent argument backed by actual data rather than my feelings on the matter." You make a lot of broad, unsubstantiated claims in this answer, not only factual ones that would be easy to prove or disprove given the correct data, but about the motivations and intent of curators on the site. This kind of baseless attack is what I expect from Twitter, not Meta SO. Nov 23, 2021 at 12:57
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    The deck is currently (and always has been) stacked against closure. It requires 3 more people to keep a post closed than it does to keep it opened. If it's a post that should be open, it's pretty easy to make a meta post about it that would result in it being open. The same isn't necessarily true for closure. Voting (up and down) is still the most powerful moderation tool available.
    – Kevin B
    Nov 23, 2021 at 17:15

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