94

Normally, I would probably flag as not an answer. However, the user in question here has upwards of 40k rep and has a gold badge in the tag that their repo has. I've only checked two questions so far, but the search I pulled up of similar posts is quite long, and it would be quite the process to check each one for validity. Not that I'm against helping in that regard, but I'd think that's a bit overkill flag wise. I also shy away from a mod flag because of this user's rep, as well as the length of time they've been here. I've already attempted to ask them to convert one such answer into a comment, but instead the user in question essentially told me that they wouldn't (re: "As soon as I finish helping other people", which isn't that specific and could theoretically never end).

Perhaps I am wrong (and if so I apologize and will delete my comment/request), and that is an answer to the question. But I think asking the OP of the question to contribute code to the repo in question is noise and shouldn't be there, much less a link and request to submit a bug report.

What should I do here, if anything?

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  • 13
    e.g. this one seems to very clearly not answer the question. Not only it is link only, but it doesn't answer the question at all.
    – user438383
    Nov 16, 2021 at 8:52
  • 19
    In the answers from the last two weeks, at least a third of the answers doesn't even try to answer the question and just points to the bug report page. Or it just asks to write code for the project like here: stackoverflow.com/a/69983194.
    – BDL
    Nov 16, 2021 at 9:10
  • 11
    Not only does the user have a gold tag badge, but that badge is also used to additionally close some questions being answered as duplicates. That maybe doesn't leave much doubt about the usefulness of such "answers". Nov 16, 2021 at 9:17
  • 34
    I'd think it is an abuse of privilege to answer a question only to close it with gold badge privileges then.
    – idmean
    Nov 16, 2021 at 9:47
  • 59
    "I also shy away from a mod flag because of this user's rep, as well as the length of time they've been here." That's not good. Curate content, not users. Everybody can (and will) make mistakes. It shouldn't play any role what the user is actually. Just do what you would normally do.
    – Trilarion
    Nov 16, 2021 at 11:53
  • 30
    Yet another example of how reputation is a terrible metric for judging whether a user will be a good curator.
    – Ian Kemp
    Nov 16, 2021 at 13:01
  • 1
    40k rep isn't that much. I've got ~30k and I don't feel like I get any special treatment. (Nor, of course, am I expecting any!) Someone who's got 100k (or Jon Skeet), now, maybe they deserve some special deference or benefit of the doubt, but 40k? Pffft. Flame away! Nov 17, 2021 at 15:33
  • 7
    @SteveSummit I have 1000k+, and I don't deserve any special deference or benefit of the doubt, should I post a low-quality answer.
    – VonC
    Nov 17, 2021 at 15:50
  • 1
    @VonC My remark was only about 10% serious. Although, that 10% is: If I see someone with 10x the rep I have doing something surprising, I'm going to think twice, and say, "You know, that person has been around here a lot longer than I have, so is there a way of looking at this, that they know, that's not wrong, that I'm overlooking?" I used to be a young hothead, flaming away at anybody and everybody because I knew I was right, but not so much any more... Nov 17, 2021 at 17:49
  • 3
    The actual answer part of the answer is just "There can be differences in how headless works or it can be a bug", which doesn't sound like an answer at all (very, very low quality, although the context may matter). Working differently by design and a bug are the 2 ways that would lead to something not working as expected. Saying as much doesn't add any information. Even if you narrow it down to one of those, then you'd still need to justify that in some way (what is the actual difference in how it works or why do you believe it's a bug?).
    – NotThatGuy
    Nov 17, 2021 at 21:45
  • 7
    "Once I've finishing actually helping people" isn't just a "no", it's a cheeky way of saying "because what you guys do / what you guys tell me to do isn't actual help".
    – Ingo Bürk
    Nov 18, 2021 at 12:42
  • 5
    The dude in question simply talks to people like he is backhanding someone. Come on bro rep doesnt mean you're great - your words mean more. This is not your dumping ground.
    – JonH
    Nov 18, 2021 at 19:06

3 Answers 3

84

This is unacceptable. Posting low-quality answers with links to other answers and then immediately closing as a duplicate is an abuse of privileges. For this reason, the correct action would be to raise a mod flag. Moderators can delete some of these answers and send the author a private message.

Don't get me wrong, there might be a situation when posting an answer and closing as a duplicate could be a good option if you want to preserve a good signpost that is slightly different to the general solution, but doing this frequently while at the same time providing an answer that is nothing more than a link is nonsense. All it does is prevent the system from automatically deleting unneeded duplicates and it creates a bigger mess for people actually looking for solutions.

Answers on Stack Overflow are meant to be easy to find. They need to provide easy to understand solutions. Further duplicate questions can then be closed using the best answer as a target. This will direct traffic to the right answer and make it easier to find. Links to documentation can be used only to support the solution in the answer. The main content must be within the answer itself, not behind the link.

What this user has created is a maze of links on Stack Overflow. Some answers are just noise. Some duplicate closures are unexplainable as the answers they posted on both questions are completely different. If I were a new user in I would be lost and have no idea where to look for the right information, which would make me ask the question again.

To Peter: Don't close as a duplicate and answer at the same time. Closing as a duplicate means "Someone has written exactly the same answer already". Either post a new answer if this is a new topic, or close as a duplicate and let the system remove the question. The target question you use must have a clear solution pertaining to the exact problem raised by the asker.

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  • 3
    Not sure how this answers the question posted by OP. For that matter, most answers here focus on other issues of this user's posts than the actual question in the meta.
    – TheMaster
    Nov 16, 2021 at 17:21
  • 1
    @TheMaster Thanks. I added one sentence that should answer the actual question
    – Dharman Mod
    Nov 16, 2021 at 17:23
  • 2
    SO logic: answers being different makes the questions different, but different questions having the same answers makes the questions duplicates. Nov 16, 2021 at 21:35
  • 4
    @TechInquisitor Yup, because the goal is to get people to the answer they need and to avoid duplicating the content people are looking for (since it will probably need to be updated in the future). People aren't looking for questions. They're looking for answers.
    – jpmc26
    Nov 17, 2021 at 3:21
  • 2
    @TheMaster No one cares. This is Meta. Any content that's direct commentary on the issue under discussion is a valid answer.
    – jpmc26
    Nov 17, 2021 at 3:23
  • 40
    @PeterThomas Would you relax if you felt the code someone was pushing into your software project was severely degrading its quality? That's how this user feels about your content here on SO. If you care about people's feelings, then statements like, "You all need to relax a little," are a slap in the face. It's extremely rude to insist you are the "friendly" one at the exact same time you demean and dismiss others in this manner.
    – jpmc26
    Nov 17, 2021 at 3:31
  • 31
    @PeterThomas Claims of "respecting" someone else's opinion are remarkably empty when they're followed up with a laundry list of dismissals of other people's opinions without even including reasoning or justification. So you're still gaslighting. If you really want to leave it to other people to decide, you could just not reply, which would be the ultimate demonstration of "relaxing."
    – jpmc26
    Nov 17, 2021 at 4:21
  • 1
    @jpmc26 And they find the answer by finding a question similar to their own. If they don't find the question, they create a dupe. Nov 17, 2021 at 16:26
75

To start: following steps listed in https://github.com/karatelabs/karate/wiki/How-to-Submit-an-Issue would result in an excellent SO post (or a useful issue report), so reading that would be a good idea for people asking SO questions and linking this properly (in a comment) could be a good idea.


But posting nonaswers, falsely closing answers as "duplicates" is especially problematic given that this user has

If you need advanced help or consulting around Karate, you can book a slot here:

on their SO profile.

It is a conflict of interest to block others from answering by closing valid questions while offering paid help on the same topic.

And posting non-answers demanding pull requests on remaining ones and/or demanding that people will follow on external site.

Maintainers of software are not obligated to monitor SO and post something on any related question. It is 100% fine to offer paid consulting.

Sabotaging people looking for help is not OK.

Things like

It can be a bug in Karate so please follow this process: https://github.com/karatelabs/karate/wiki/How-to-Submit-an-Issue

should be a comment at best, and only in cases where bug is actually likely.


Proper procedure to take when repo owner is answering questions with requests for the OP to submit a bug report to their repo?

Downvote and flag answer as nonaswer? Hope that it will be deleted?

I also shy away from a mod flag because of this user's rep, as well as the length of time they've been here.

This is not a valid reason to avoid flagging or downvoting.

It is not like that each 5 good answers allows to post one nonaswer, 50 good answers allows to post one spam question and every 1000 answers one is allowed to include a NSFW gif.

6
  • 3
    "It is a conflict of interest to block others from answering by closing valid questions while offering paid help on the same topic." Only if they are valid questions about the software or its documentation. If the user is basically reporting an issue/bug, then it's not a valid question, but a customer support issue.
    – Braiam
    Nov 16, 2021 at 14:46
  • 9
    @Braiam It is still conflict of interest even for invalid ones. For example if someone decides over who should get contract (say, for tax-funded motorway) and they award it to their own company that is still conflict of interest even if that was right decisions. Also, I even narrowed to "valid questions" Nov 16, 2021 at 14:52
  • 3
    No, is not a conflict of interest on invalid ones. Invalid ones should be closed and deleted expediently. If someone is using SO as bug tracker, that's a not valid question and nobody should answer it anyways. Focus on valid questions being improperly handled, focusing on problematic answers on problematic questions is putting the cart before the horse.
    – Braiam
    Nov 16, 2021 at 14:54
  • 6
    Yes, invalid ones should be deleted. That does not remove conflict of interest in this case. Note that there are valid questions related to bugs and "this is related to bug, reporting it is a good idea" is not a valid reason to close. Nov 16, 2021 at 14:55
  • 16
    FYI, the OP in question was not trying to "report a bug", they had a problem and were asking a question about it to try and resolve their problem. That describes about 90% of the questions on SO. Nov 16, 2021 at 17:15
  • 2
    "every 1000 answers one is allowed to include a NSFW gif"... I love this idea!
    – Heinzi
    Nov 17, 2021 at 11:52
-36

If the question is indeed a bug, then getting the user to post a bug is the correct course of action. Said course of action should include:

  • closing the question
  • linking documentation about how to report/debug the issue

It is the correct course of action because Stack Overflow is not a bug tracker. It's consistent with our customer support policy. Note that bugs can be on the software or the documentation. In both cases closing as non-reproducible is acceptable.

If the question is not a bug, but "how to use this too", then doing the above is not appropriate.

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  • 1
    What would be the close reason in this case? Nov 16, 2021 at 14:49
  • @MisterMiyagi 2nd paragraph. But you can always write your own.
    – Braiam
    Nov 16, 2021 at 14:51
  • 33
    Even in cases of bugs the answer can describe workarounds, alternatives etc. Especially for documentation bugs! With a proper documentation SO would be mostly not needed! Nov 16, 2021 at 14:54
  • @reducingactivity if it describes alternatives, those alternatives become unnecessary once the bug is fixed and makes brittle answers since they aren't guaranteed to work (including . Also, having all the information about a bug condensed on the bug tracker is what they are meant to do. Like SO having canonical questions about programming problems, bug trackers are canonical references about bugs reported about a particular software.
    – Braiam
    Nov 16, 2021 at 14:58
  • 10
    I don't see why the Q&A would be irrelevant just because some future release might remove the situation. Old software and frameworks lingering around and requiring workarounds is a reality. It might be worth marking the content as Outdated at some point in the future, but preemptively closing the question seems to be overdoing it. Nov 16, 2021 at 15:02
  • 3
    @Braiam Not sure how you define programming problems, but I define that in way that includes bugs in upstream and external libraries. Especially ones mandatory to use for given project (Android, iPhone, some unavoidable APIs, Linux bugs, Windows bugs). Also, many notable projects have no public issue trackers. See stackoverflow.com/search?tab=votes&q=workaround%20for%20bug for some cases (not all are about bug workarounds, but many are) Nov 16, 2021 at 15:02
  • @MisterMiyagi that's fine and all, but remember that this site is for practical software development questions. If you decide to use buggy software innecesarly on your practical application, that's entirely on you and you alone. The information about how to deal with it, is on the bug tracker anyways, so duplicating it here makes no sense.
    – Braiam
    Nov 16, 2021 at 15:04
  • @reducingactivity did you gleaned at any of those answers? Most of them starts with "use the newer version, avoid self-inflicting pain", and then goes how to do it. Also none of the questions ask for the work around, but the solution to the problem. Have you wondered why is that?
    – Braiam
    Nov 16, 2021 at 15:06
  • 4
    @Braiam "If you decide to use buggy software innecesarly on your practical application, that's entirely on you and you alone." Erm, no. It is on the platform, vendor, dependencies, maintainers and many other parties that I have no control over. Most of my code runs on LTS systems, dealing with software and dependencies that are at their core several years old is not uncommon. Nov 16, 2021 at 15:10
  • @Braiam First one stackoverflow.com/questions/2422468 has "Workaround for GlassFish3 bug of getParameter() still returning null" as part of an answer. stackoverflow.com/questions/14791843 has 500+ votes on answer that is explicitly a workaround, stackoverflow.com/questions/50461881 - workaround ascended to solution etc. Nov 16, 2021 at 15:31
  • 6
    @Braiam "If you decide to use buggy software" Can you point me to an PC operating system, mobile operating system and browser without bugs? Nov 16, 2021 at 15:32
  • @reducingactivity That's a incomplete quote, lets keep this civil and quote completely: If you decide to use buggy software unnecessarily. You can't avoid all buggy software, but you can avoid some buggy software. If you don't, is because your decision to do so and all responsibility lies with you.
    – Braiam
    Nov 16, 2021 at 16:06
  • 6
    @Braiam Exactly the same applies. There is no such thing as completely bugfree software, except some toy programs. Nov 16, 2021 at 16:22
  • 17
    "If the question was a bug" is not even remotely the same things as "using SO as a bug tracker". People ask questions on SO because they want help with a problem. If their problem turns out to be a product bug, that's OK and the question and answer should be retained because it's valuable help to anyone else with the same problem. Deleting it because it turns out to be a bug would be contrary to StackOverflow's whole reason for existing. Nov 16, 2021 at 17:21
  • 1
    @RBarryYoung posting an issue in the appropriate place is valuable to help people with the same problem, because it helps get it resolved. Refusing to close dreck because it will attract a bit more ad revenue is helping... someone else.
    – hobbs
    Nov 17, 2021 at 1:54

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