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In Jenkins version upgrade from 2.222.3 to 2.235.5, a question about upgrading a Jenkins instance was asked. I recommended to move the question to another site, as (from my POV) this looks unrelated to programming. Another user mentioned that the Jenkins documentation recommends Stack Overflow for support questions.

How can we handle this properly? Is there somebody "official" that could ask the Jenkins people to adapt their documentation? Or should such questions be allowed on Stack Overflow?


Do questions about Jenkins belong here or on Server Fault? already handled this some time ago.

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    3rd party websites are terrible at recommending Stack Overflow (Microsoft have a habit of recommending it in GitHub issues when the problem is completely off topic for example). They (the 3rd party), the majority of the time, don't understand what Stack Overflow is about, and that other sites in the community exist. If a question is off-topic then vote istas off-topic regardless of if the OP has been "recommended" to visit the site ny the documentation/vendor/etc. If the question is on topic for a different site, vote to migrate, or perhaps link the OP to their tour.
    – Thom A
    Oct 29, 2021 at 9:54
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    In this case, i think the question is too vague to be answered as is. The user needs to upgrade and they want to know if there will be any issues? Far too broad of a scope to answer.
    – Machavity Mod
    Oct 29, 2021 at 13:01

2 Answers 2

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TL;DR: A 3rd party (or documentation) recommending Stack Overflow for questions doesn't make a question on-topic.


When judging a question on if it's on topic or not, judge it on the question alone; nothing else. It doesn't matter if the user has been directed to the site by a colleague, another site in the community, a vendor, documentation, or another 3rd party; being referred to the site does not make a question on-topic.

Unfortunately many sites do recommend Stack Overflow for asking questions, however, rarely do they explain what type of questions should be posted. Certainly some of them will be on topic, but others most certainly won't. 3rd parties (in my experience) are often very poor at recommending Stack Overflow correctly. I, for example, often see Microsoft representatives recommend both Stack Overflow and DBA in the same breath on the SQL Docs GitHub, despite that often the query would only be on topic for one (and occasionally neither).

If a user does tell you that they were recommended by a 3rd party, then if you want to, you could explain why that recommendation is wrong. Perhaps ask them to take the Tour so that they can understand a little about what the site is about.

If you know that the question is on-topic for another site in the community, then you could vote to migrate it. If it's not a site that you can vote to migrate to, then you could suggest it in the comments. Only vote to migrate it you know the question in its current state would be on-topic though. If the question is low quality even for that site, don't give them [the other site] our "rubbish". Instead VTC and if you want comment to explain that a better formatted question on {community} would be better, and point them to the other community's tour.

If you're unsure if it's on topic, then be careful recommending it (again sites get a little frustrated with us pushing our "rubbish" onto them, which I don't blame them for), so I would suggest reading their tour first, and again recommend the OP do so too before they consider posting there.

If you're feeling "especially nice", you can always ask them to ping you in the comments of their current question with a link to their new question (on the other site) so that you can answer them there.

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As "the other user" which prompted this question, I feel it's appropriate to add my 2p. I am an Enterprise Jenkins Admin (many instances, 1000's users, 10K's jobs). I have answered hundreds of Jenkins tagged questions and provided comments on many more. But I am just another voice here and am not here to challenge @nico-hassse, @Larnu or @Machavity.

As Machavity points out above, the OP did a poor job in asking the original question. There is no evidence they read the Jenkins upgrade documentation or searched S/O for anything and asked an open-ended, question (which could be worded better to be specific) without sufficient context, which makes it's really difficult to defend or hold as an example.

But, it's one of many questions that fail into this category, yet most don't get flagged. It would be nice to simply respond, "Did you read the documentation (link) or search S/O for similar answers (link)", shoo them on their way and eventually delete these questions since they or their answers do not really contribute to the S/O "knowledge-base", but who has time to cleanup that mess? (maybe there ought to be a flag - Your question has been deferred until you go do some homework.) Ultimately, the goal here is to provide help and share knowledge, isn't it?

Specific to my remark "this is one of the Jenkins recommended forums for support", one can either randomly catch and flag questions that should be posted elsewhere or do something to prevent them from happening. That would start with getting Jenkins maintainers to clarify what questions should go here or elsewhere. Better guidance in the tag info would also help. That would reduce the churn and lighten mod's workloads; better for all. Otherwise you're just swatting skeeters in a swamp.

Does anyone want to engage and educate every user 1:1 on S/O best practices as Larnu suggests? I can't even do that for the 3K users I have, never mind all of S/O!

At least nico-hasse gave some guidance (thumbs up!). Usually, it's a bunch of downvotes and closed with no commentary feedback to the "new contributor". How does that help anyone?

A quick search showed there's already an essentially identical answered question in S/O, so the "Close as Duplicate" would be my logical action. But why was the original and similar not flagged then? And at least the other was answered, often they are not.

The next question is, if not here, where? I know of 7 other forums w/Jenkins tags, but are any more appropriate? If you consider this Q to be "Install/Upgrade an app (using rpm)", maybe. But it's really about operational impact, not how do I rpm; an SA won't answer that. I'd say the closest fit is DevOps, a less than 5 year old site with 1/100 the tagged Q; Jenkins been here for a decade+. He's not likely to get eyeballs there. None of the others seem like a good fit either.

S/O         46K [Jenkins] Questions     36 "jenkins-*" tags
DevOps      581 [Jenkins] Questions     8 "jenkins-*" tags
Srv/Fault   609 [Jenkins] Questions     2 "jenkins-*" tags
Sup/User    288 [Jenkins] Questions     1 "jenkins-*" tags
SQA/Test    147 [Jenkins] Questions     2 "jenkins-*" tags
Unix/Lnx    117 [Jenkins] Questions     1 "jenkins-*" tags
Ubuntu       54 [Jenkins] Questions     1 "jenkins-*" tags
InfoSec      11 [Jenkins] Questions     1 "jenkins-*" tags

If any of those groups is a better fit for a class of questions, then ALL existing questions should be migrated to stop people posting similar questions improperly ("look around to see if your question has been asked before", aka, monkey see, monkey do).

And if you were to boot/migrate all the Jenkins questions that do not meet Machavity's classification, what about all the other similar tools here? I don't follow those tags but do the same "appropriateness issues" arise there? They should all be treated equally and similarly.

[GitHub]     47K Questions      40 "github-*" tags
[Gitlab]     13K Questions      14 "gitlab-*" tags
[TeamCity]    6K Questions      14 "teamcity-*" tags
[travs-ci]    4K Questions       4 "travis-*" tags
[bamboo]    1.5K Questions       4 "bamboo-*" tags
[circleci]  1.5K Questions       3 "circleci-*" tags
[eclipse]   122K Questions      36 "eclipse-*" tags

With respect to Machavity's Jenkins classification (which no one would think to search for before posting, that should be in the tag info), I don't believe the delineation is that easily clear-cut. Sure, the basic installation issues (rpm/yum/msi) and setting up a service are probably ServerFault. But what about the App Configuration: plugins and JCasC? What about Pipelines (which depend on both plugins and app config)? What about App Administration and Integration w/other Dev tools?

We manage standalone Jenkins instances, Jenkins within Azure DevOps (instead of msbuild/Azure pipelines), ephemeral Jenkins within Docker environments in Openshift. We have Freestyle and Pipeline jobs, which do code build (various ways), test, code analysis, deployments, automated testing; jobs that do administrative tasks, some in groovy; jobs that use shared groovy libraries. Mostly, everything is moving to jenkinsfile, but some is still UI based.

Then of course, there's the actual interaction between the steps and the code or test scripts, etc. Evidently those parts are OK to stay.

Does the JCasC and jenkinsfile meet the criteria to stay here or elsewhere? What if they are using declarative or scripted syntax?

Do you want the users to have to choose between 8 sites and monitor them all to help a Jenkins userbase? You certainly don't want people cross-posting the same thing in multiple sites, "just in case ..". (Sidebar, there was a S/O user who posted ~30 Q in Sep on S/O, almost half were flagged duplicates of HIS OWN questions!)

For the greater good, there needs to be clear guidance (documentation) to the users to do the right thing before they do what they think is appropriate. There also needs to be consistency across similar tools and applications.

If this is really an issue, then provide clear guidance in the tag info, migrate those questions to the proper forums, then convince the Jenkins maintainers to update the support guidance (that seems like the easy part!). Then do the same for the other tool tags.

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