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I'm a native Spanish speaker and the few times that I have used es.stackoverflow.com I find that the overall quality of questions and interactions is lower and actually forget to visit the site to answer or improve questions.

It got me thinking about how could we make people interact more with the Stack Overflow questions for other languages than English

What If we move all the LANGUAGE SITES SO into the SO one, in a way that that each question will have now NEW language tags like "spanish, english, portugues, etc" and just allow users to post/filter using those tags

As expected NEW LANGUAGES TAGS are used in the same way we currently filter by C#, MVC etc. A user would have a default set of preferred language tags to avoid seeing questions in other languages.

Many developers speak two or more languages and having them under the same site would be an advantage, no more jumping to other sites for each language that you speak

Finally for me SO is about helping Developers regardless of their language.

Regarding UI elements and text buttons, I consider that the site is well designed and users could find a way to use it. Especially if they come from other language versions of Stack Overflow.

I'm providing ONE approach to how to use the traction from the English version to improve interactions on the other languages as well. When interacting in the real world with developers you don't have them separated in different rooms because of the language they speak

So feel free to provide your opinion in comments, but is more appreaciated if you provide your own ideas or improvements over mine.

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    I tried to salvage the comment chain here, but they degenerated into a discussion about the Convention badge so... let's start over on comments. If you have a comment about the question, feel free to make it. Let's not talk about other subjects here.
    – Machavity Mod
    Oct 20, 2021 at 13:02
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    Consider using the Russian site for a month with Google translate. Ask and especially answer Questions there. See how it goes.
    – Scratte
    Oct 20, 2021 at 14:31
  • @Scratte feel free to share your knowledge, no need to go through what you seem to have already experienced. this is about sharing experience. Oct 20, 2021 at 14:36
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    I have not. It was a genuine suggestion so you could get some first hand experience of how easy/difficult cross language really is.
    – Scratte
    Oct 20, 2021 at 14:40
  • you are saying is hard for a Russion speaker to TAG a question saying is bein asked in Russian ? if moderator dont know the language of a question they just SKIP, just like we currently can SKIP moderation of question in the EDIT/CLOSE QUEUES - I'm not the one suggesting translating, that is someone else comments/answers Oct 20, 2021 at 14:45

2 Answers 2

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Obligatory note: there's a few references to Spanish specifically, though that can generally be replaced with Your Favorite Language™ and not really change the meaning, aside a site in said language potentially not existing.

I'm a native Spanish speaker and the few times that I have used es.stackoverflow.com I find that the overall quality of questions and interactions is lower and actually forget to visit the site to answer or improve questions.

This is a fundamental problem with the language sites. Language sites have less content because fewer people generally use these languages compared to people who know English. English is the dominating language offline and online.

The reason we have separate sites are to prevent closures of unrelated topics, as well as have a unified moderation front. This includes languages. There's also three fundamental problems with closing questions as dupes of questions in other languages:

  1. Translators suck; I'll get back to this outside the bullet list.
  2. How do you, someone who knows at least Spanish and English, search for questions that could be in any arbitrary language that you probably don't know? It's all fun and games while they're in English or Spanish, but what about Russian? Korean? German?
  3. What do you do when someone inevitably posts an English answer to a non-English question, and vice versa?

Re: #1: I pointed out this in the comments to a different question, but here is the reason again:

Translators have the fundamental flaw of not being sentient, and are consequently unable to translate at a level humans would. Even then, human translations aren't always good, because languages are so much more than words.

Code is worse, because we use a lot of different capitalization schemes, that some times are affected by other constructs that would make the "word" grammatically incorrect if split up by the "markers". Examples of schemes include snake_case, camelCase, PascalCase, as well as others I've probably forgotten, and not to forget about various hybrids. This adds to the complexity of the "text", making it hard for (non-human) translators to actually get a useful translation.

This wouldn't be a problem if people wrote code in English, but if people can write code in English, they know English and can use English Stack Overflow, and the problem defeats itself.

And, as was pointed out in the comments before they got nuked, if you use a real search engine instead of the steaming pile of garbage that is on-site search, you can't filter by tags. You could get results in a language you don't understand and can't translate reliably, and that applies regardless of the search language and question language.

On the topic of this, if you want cross-language dupe closure, you also need a reliable way to find the source question, that could be in any language. This would end up being a nightmare from a moderation perspective, as well as from a user perspective.


You then followed up in the now-deleted comments with a comment saying that we could just disable dupe closing across languages. That's what we have multiple sites for in the first place. What do you do when language tags then become a way to avoid dupe closure? This is a tangent to #3; what do you do when there's a canonical that needs updating, and a non-English speaker answers in a language that isn't English to an English question, or vice versa?

This is particularly a problem if you allow cross-language duping, because there isn't an English question to post the English answer to, and attempts to make one would result in dupe closure. This doesn't benefit anyone in either language.

The second advantage with having languages on separate sites is that we don't need to consider these edge-cases. If you want a Spanish canonical with a Spanish answer, you post it on Spanish Stack Overflow. English answers to said Spanish canonical can then be deleted, and an English canonical can be established for the English answer, if it doesn't already exist.

Regarding UI elements and text buttons, I consider that the site is well designed and users could find a way to use it. Especially if they come from other language versions of Stack Overflow.

What about the people who haven't used SO before? If they don't know English, they're gonna get lost in the UI. No muscle memory can save you from a brand new site.

Multi-language sites aren't implemented anywhere in the network. Better yet, the various language sites (sites dedicated to a specific language, not internationalized versions of an existing site) even have an English UI.

There are also additional challenges to moderating that I won't go into detail on or even try to list, that adding a tag simply won't fix. Adding tags, in fact, introduces more problems than it solves, including from a moderation perspective. One example is actually the ongoing election; each internationalized site can have its own election and get its own moderators that are guaranteed to speak Spanish, as opposed to trying to hack in an equivalent by having several elections looking for moderators that (claim to) speak the language in question.


TL;DR: Language tags on a single site are a bad idea. There's no way to internationalize a single site from the system's side. Let's keep the languages separate.

See also: https://meta.stackoverflow.com/a/382450/6296561

And now that we've talked about the practicality of why this is a bad idea, let's talk about what it won't do:

It won't help any language get more speakers. The language sites are, again, constrained on quality because of a lack of speakers. As an obligatory reminder, the language sites only have a fraction of English SO's traffic:

image showing stats from stackexchange.com; see the source link

(source)

The language not getting any more speakers consequently means there's fewer people to visit the site, which again is the most likely cause of the quality problems. This has nothing to do with the "traction" English SO has - it's because there's fewer people who write Spanish than, and who also are willing to write in Spanish.

To give context on the second part of that sentence, I'm fluent in two languages (non-native English speaker here too), can read a third, and learning a fourth, but if internationalized site for my native language showed up, or sites for any other language I know, I still wouldn't want to use it even if I can. The reason behind that, however, is not something I'm going to discuss on this question in particular, because it's not important or the point.

TL;DR: you don't lack traction, you lack people who can and want to write on an internationalized version of SO.

Which brings me back to:

Many developers speak two or more languages and having them under the same site would be an advantage, no more jumping to other sites for each language that you speak

And who says those developers want to write in other languages than English for technical stuff? The vast majority of the technical ecosystems, again following the trend of the world and the Internet, are English.


Your entire suggestion pivots on Google Translate being good (it isn't), search engines having good filters (they don't), and that people always search in their native language (they don't; error messages in English exist, and people do search for them and look for non-english results).

You complained a few times in the now-nuked comments that you were looking for ways to increase localized site traffic, and there's only one way to do that: help improve the localized site by getting questions on it.

There's no way to get it to compete with English.SO, again due to the sheer number of English speakers, but you'll get a lot further by contributing content there than you'll get by merging the sites and introducing a lot of nasty hacks to get around systems that used to be self-contained by having separate sites, or introducing policies for edge-cases, including the few I've mentioned in this answer already.

Just ask and answer on Spanish.SO, and make sure the questions at least are roughly on-par with their English equivalent, at least in the cases where there is an equivalent question on English SO, instead of letting Spanish and any other languages become an obscure tag in some abandoned corner of a mostly English site.

And finally, if you're looking for further ways to improve SO for your specific language, or in general want to try to organize an effort to improve the quality of the content, you're better off trying on Spanish.Meta.SO than here.Also somewhat interesting, there are allegedly fewer Russian speakers than Spanish speakers, but Russian.SO does better than Spanish.SO.

And finally, because you've brought it up twice in two different comments,

Also having moderators that can curate content in languages other than english and having an I18N version of the site would be great and would keep developers in the same room regardless of their native language

This isn't about separating developers into different rooms based on their native language. Native languages have never been a problem; you can speak any language and still stay on English Stack Overflow, or pick up a language there's an internationalized variant of and answer there.

The problem only shows up when none of the developers share a language, and it's a problem I don't realistically see happening. A lot of jobs offering themselves internationally do set some type of language requirements, such as the language native to the country, or very often English, and I fail to see any company that'd see a benefit in having a group that can't communicate with each other. Even in those cases, there'd realistically be someone who can act as a translator.

TL;DR: bad analogy, separating by native languages isn't what's happening here, and it's extremely unlikely IRL.

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  • How do you currently know that a question is not in english currently ? moderators and other users commenting. a Moderator or user could edit and set a language tag it Oct 20, 2021 at 14:17
  • Yes, but that doesn't mean search engines catch on. It gets more fun if you somehow end up mixing languages, and a dose of spanish examples in an english questions results in the search engine misclassifying the question as Spanish.
    – Zoe is on strike Mod
    Oct 20, 2021 at 14:19
  • That can already happen in any SO site, unless it gets curated right ? so is the same risk that the current one Oct 20, 2021 at 14:20
  • Nope, because unlike your proposed system, anything non-english that sneaks through is content that should be closed (read: not be there in the first place). It's consequently not a flaw with the system. Your question is equivalent to how completely off-topic questions slip through. Doesn't make them on-topic, and they generally get closed when they resurface.
    – Zoe is on strike Mod
    Oct 20, 2021 at 14:21
  • Does the current system closes them automatically ? ASFIK nope, someone has to curate, and vote close. Human intervention is required Oct 20, 2021 at 14:22
  • No human intervention can deal with the search engine algorithm. You also don't address any of the edge-cases this introduces, including cases where the wrong language is posted to the wrong post. You still need to revisit the entire language user guidance for this strategy to be even slightly viable. Even doing that, it'd require a brand new form of cooperation among people who moderate - it's nowhere near as easy as you seem to think it is.
    – Zoe is on strike Mod
    Oct 20, 2021 at 14:24
  • "who says those developers want to write in other languages than English for technical stuff?" Actually is more like "this allows developers that speak both english and spanish answer questions that are ONLY in spanish, because the OP only speaks spanis" and all under the same site." Oct 20, 2021 at 14:25
  • so the same problems that you mention in your comments already happen in ENGLISH SO right ? user can post in other languages/combining them too and only human intervention can curate that right ? Oct 20, 2021 at 14:26
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    And why is that good? It's already under the same network, but with the lines for what language content goes where being clearly separated by the content being on different sites. And again, allowing doesn't mean they want to, which defeats the point of what you wanted to do in the first place; bringing traffic to Spanish.SO.
    – Zoe is on strike Mod
    Oct 20, 2021 at 14:26
  • "user can post in other languages/combining them too and only human intervention can curate that right ?" - yes, but what's your point? English posts get deleted from Spanish.SO manually as well
    – Zoe is on strike Mod
    Oct 20, 2021 at 14:27
  • the fact that you disagree with my ideas is not proof, If you want proof beyond the -14 negative downvotes, a survey could help. Neither your point of view or mine represent the SO community Oct 20, 2021 at 14:27
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    In what context? In the context of not everyone wanting to use their native language in a tech context? I know a lot of people who aren't natively English, and who chose to use English over their native language - I don't need a survey to mention an observation of a pretty large scale.
    – Zoe is on strike Mod
    Oct 20, 2021 at 14:29
  • I wish this was a google document, commenting here has become very hard given the length of your answer. "I what context ?" read the comments above ;-) Oct 20, 2021 at 14:47
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I don't think this is a good idea.

Tags on Stack Overflow are meant to describe the topic, not the post. Adding special tags would be unwise as that would just bring us to the problem Stack Overflow had in the beginning. Tags have a clearly defined purpose and we should not be adding more meta-tags.

All questions on Stack Overflow must be added in English. That is the official policy because Stack Overflow doesn't have i18n. There is only one interface language. All moderation is happening in English and moderators must be able to understand the content. We cannot accept posts in any other language than English.

Localalized Stack Overflow sites were created to solve the problem mentioned above, but there will be no new localized sites. There is a quality problem on these sites and splitting Stack Overflow into more sites decreases content quality. Programming problems are similar in all languages. This results in the same topics that are on the main site covered on other Stack Overflow sites. The advantage of the English site is that this content is often curated the most and therefore the answers are of the best quality here.

If developers prefer to use Stack Overflow in English, they are free to do so. For ones that don't understand English and still want to use English Stack Overflow, there are plenty of automatic translators that can be used to understand the interface and the content.

We can also encourage people to use Stack Overflow sites in their own language. They contain valuable content as well. However, they exist only because Spanish, Portuguese, Russian and Japanese are common languages enough to justify the duplication of content and additional moderation efforts.

There is no point in moving the content from the localized sites to the main one as these topics are already covered here. If you find some interesting topic on es.stackoverflow.com that is not covered on stackoverflow.com then feel free to ask a question and self-answer.

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  • just a small clatification the existing TAGS of SO will be kept that way and only a new type of TAGS will be created to handle question in other languages. Oct 20, 2021 at 14:04
  • @MauricioGraciaGutierrez As explained in my answer this would decrease the overall quality of content and it would be pointless as such content already exists on Stack Overflow, but in English. Adding tags, in whatever format, would not solve any issues.
    – Dharman Mod
    Oct 20, 2021 at 14:05
  • Also having moderators that can curate content in languages other than english and having an I18N version of the site would be great and would keep developers in the same room regardless of their native language. Oct 20, 2021 at 14:05
  • If you consider that ALL the content that exists in SO in other languages already exist in ENGLISH why do we keep those non-english sites then ? Also keep in mind that translation has many limitations when it comes to regular day words that developers use and the translator does not know Oct 20, 2021 at 14:07
  • This answer although is very detailed, feels a bit like "yes we do have non-english sites because we need them but they are not as important so we dont curate them or care as much since there is google translate" Oct 20, 2021 at 14:09
  • @MauricioGraciaGutierrez The second part of your comment answers the first. Spanish, Portugueese, Russian and Japanese are common languages enough to justify the duplication of content. We have separate sites so that the content can be available in these languages without adding complexity to the main site.
    – Dharman Mod
    Oct 20, 2021 at 14:09
  • according to you "we have google translate". so you contradict yourself Oct 20, 2021 at 14:10

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