39

(Latest update: Well, folks, this already becomes a holy war. I like the answer given by Ryan M below together with my response to him in the comments. At least, it works for me. So I suggest considering this question answered.)

Please see the https://stackoverflow.com/questions/68620580/passing-a-double-variable-to-the-kernels-cuda

Screenshot of the deleted question

Somebody closed this question with the reason "not reproducible or was caused by typos".

Well:

  1. It is reproducible since one can reproduce it easily, although the issue is fixed and resolved. But this is common for most Stack Overflow questions.
  2. This is not a typo, but a real error which beginners do very often just because it is a trap in format for printf: of course, it is counter-intuitive to have %d responsible for int instead of double while other types have some kind of the correspondence. 2.1. Of course, this is a childish error, but this is an error, not a typo when a developer just pressed the wrong button. This is what they do "intentionally".

At the same time, I agree that the question is not generic enough; it is worded for CUDA kernels while relating to pure C/C++.

Anyway, I see both the question and answer as beneficial for developers who may find them by search.

Any ideas why the question was closed with this reason?

Update based on the comments: Folks, I don't mind closing the question:

  1. Of course, it is an obvious duplicate since this is a very widespread case.
  2. Of course, it doesn't relate to CUDA at all, although relates to CUDA C as a subset of C, anyway, it would be nice to make it more generic, maybe putting it in Q&A format.

So, my concern is not closing, but the closing reason since in another situation it could lead to wrong closure.

Regarding the question and its wording, put yourself in the shoes of the author. He had a problem in CUDA C code and he had no idea at that moment what exactly caused the problem, so he provided the context. It is not his fault that real issue was narrower.

If the question was closed as a duplicate, that could be of great help, but "not reproducible or was caused by typos" is misleading and if anybody else in the same issue, this could be in their way to find the solution.

So my key concern at the moment: Please ignore the fact that the (1) question duplicates other questions, (2) this is a basic common knowledge, (3) it doesn't relate to CUDA.

Please pay attention to the closure reason. What stops users to close next time a unique, complex, CUDA-related (or other technology-related question) with the reason "not reproducible or was caused by typos" just because they see it like "hey, here is just one letter to replace"! as happened here?

This is my only concern here.

33
  • 13
    Is there no duplicate for that? Sounds like a very common mistake.
    – BDL
    Aug 16, 2021 at 22:05
  • 22
    Many people use "resolved in a way less likely to help future readers." as a reason to close as typo even when there's no typo. If the problem really was using d where f or lf should have been used, I can see justification for closing as typo. Aug 16, 2021 at 22:06
  • 4
    Also worth noting you've exposed this question to the Meta effect. May <insert deity of preference here> have mercy. Aug 16, 2021 at 22:24
  • 2
    For the question linked, (with risk of looking like an idiot posting info about a language I have no experience with) wouldn't stackoverflow.com/questions/4264127/… be a good resource to link to? It appears as though the op may have had no idea the problem could even be the format. Using this as a sign-post to the more general post would probably be a benefit to future visitors, if any manage to make it to this post with this same mistake.
    – Kevin B
    Aug 16, 2021 at 22:26
  • 16
    "This is not a typo, but a real error which beginners do very often" if so, I sincerely doubt this is literally the first time it has been posted on SO. If it's very common, there would be a dupe target or ten.
    – VLAZ
    Aug 16, 2021 at 22:27
  • 1
    @KevinB That is a good dupe for the source question. I'm not sure if it's worth unlocking the question to re-lock it as a dupe, but I'd vote for the change to a more accurate close reason.. Aug 16, 2021 at 22:29
  • 7
    Given the propensity for both GCC and Clang to report format errors — at least of the mismatch between %d and double — it really is mostly a question of 'not using the compiler facilities correctly'. Note that the mnemonic for %d is decimal, and %o is octal and %x (or %X) is hexadecimal, while %f is for floating point (as opposed to one of the integer representations). You merely have to know (be taught) the correct mnemonics. Aug 16, 2021 at 23:44
  • 3
    @BDL and others. of course it is a duplicate. The problem is that it is very hard to keep it useful, closing as a duplicate, since in case a newbie meets such an issue in CUDA C they will search for CUDA C issue, not a generic C issue. To know the question, one need to know the half of the answer. So, this is tricky. Anyway, I wouldn't have raised this thread had it been closed as a duplicate. Aug 17, 2021 at 0:00
  • 3
    @user4581301, I see the difference between mistake and type in the "intention". If I misprint the letter, this is a typo. If I put it consciously and won't fix during the code review, this is a mistake based on the lack of knowledge. And, of course, I already see the meta effect in action, people keep lowering my reputation based on the answer on that question, that's funny. ) Aug 17, 2021 at 0:02
  • 2
    @AlexeiLevenkov, this is not my idea. This is what moderators suggested me, responding to my concern if such an approach is correct when somebody can close the question when he/she himself/herself makes mistakes with the closure type. I wanted to learn how to get to closer, how to appeal, etc. Again, I am not concerned about this particular question, I am interested how all this staff works. On CUDA vs C I explained in the update to my question to avoid copying to all others. Aug 17, 2021 at 0:09
  • 3
    @KenY-N et al, of course you are correct, in most cases compilers could provide a warning for such mistakes and sometimes they do. The problem is that issue is common for newbies and how many newbies look into the warnings? Of course, they should and we must start from saying them that they should. But in this case 90% of answers here could be replaced with RTFM!, so you are correct, but this doesn't help them. ) Aug 17, 2021 at 0:13
  • 3
    I consider "not reading the manual" a typo (since there is no better close reason).
    – Dale K
    Aug 17, 2021 at 1:39
  • 2
    @DaleK You're not allowed to tell others to do the things they need to do to prevent asking their poor question because that is considered "unwelcoming" on Stack Overflow anno 2021.
    – Ian Kemp
    Aug 17, 2021 at 7:02
  • 3
    @DavidC.Rankin That almost certainly isn't going to work because the asker almost certainly doesn't know enough about printf format specifiers to know the difference. The most likely response is "I don't know I just copied this from a tutorial and it doesn't work", because most askers today aren't interested in understanding, just making their code compile. Further, there is nothing that such a comment would add over a dupe close vote pointing to a question about printf format specifiers.
    – Ian Kemp
    Aug 17, 2021 at 8:48
  • 2
    @DaleK It is if it's a dupe close vote, because then the asker gets an auto-comment with a link to the potential dupe...
    – Ian Kemp
    Aug 17, 2021 at 10:22

5 Answers 5

47

The question that should be asked is:

Is the question likely to help future users with the same problem?

That is, will people with the same problem be able to find this question and be helped by it? Another way to think of this is: is this truly an error where the user failed to do the thing they knew how to do and meant to do, or was there a misunderstanding about how the system worked that someone else might have as well?

Examples where the answer is "no":

  • Code that traverses a 2D array has a relevant statement misplaced in the outer loop, when it should have been in the inner loop, resulting in only one array element per line being processed instead of every element
  • Incorrect results because one variable is initialized and a different variable is used in a calculation

These are cases where the symptoms are likely to be very specific to the exact code, and a user is unlikely to find the question by searching their symptoms.

Examples where the answer is "yes":

  • A web framework requires only part of the file path to be used in route definitions
  • A date formatting library uses ISO week years instead of normal years when you use YYYY instead of yyyy.

In these cases, the symptoms are likely similar, and a well-written question would be easily found in a search.


Here, this question seems to fall into the latter category. Lots of people are used to using %d in format strings for numbers, and may not realize that they need to use %lf for a signed double.

However, this question does have one notable issue: it's asking the wrong question. It's asking how to pass it into the kernel, not into printf. There are a few ways to address questions with this problem.

  1. Find a suitable duplicate (here, Correct format specifier for double in printf seems potentially apt, though I'm not a subject matter expert, so I could be wrong). Often, common mistakes have a good canonical question that explains the problem. The original question can then later be removed with delete votes as an unhelpful duplicate, if it's not a useful signpost for people to find the canonical.
  2. If there's no suitable duplicate, and the question a good answer, edit the question to ask the right question. Trim out the extraneous bits unrelated to the actual problem and make a good canonical for future users with the same problem.

You can also ask and self-answer your own version of the "correct" question. I've done this in the past with a fairly basic question that was buried in a lot of extraneous noise. The question was then closed as a duplicate of my new canonical question.

17
  • Did you mean "fall into the former category"?
    – Carlo Wood
    Aug 17, 2021 at 0:14
  • 2
    @CarloWood No, I meant that other users are likely to have the same problem and that, with some improvements, the question could help other users in the future.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Aug 17, 2021 at 0:16
  • 1
    @RyanM, I couldn't agree on all the points here. First of all, this is about the changes. (1) When the user got the error, he couldn't have known what the real issue was, so he provided the full context. (2) When I answered, I answered based on his question. (3) When a new user will look for mistake he could form the question in the same form as the first user did. So, generalization could fail to help. Although, I agree that in this particular case it is possible. My concern is wider. Aug 17, 2021 at 0:21
  • @RyanM, any specific example if false by definition. ) Especially when you use such a wide word like "relevant". For example, for your "Code that reverses a 2D array...." as an example like "no" can be easily debuted by stackoverflow.com/questions/68683273/… Again, this is a little bit different case but quite close to your example. Of course, we have performance issue, not correctness issue, but with your "relevant" if fits. So, this is a hard decision point here. Aug 17, 2021 at 0:25
  • @DamirTenishev I disagree that that example is similar. One is a misplaced statement where someone miscounted closing braces, the other is asking a specific question that would generalize to all 2D array traversals, and could be easily found by anyone with the same question. I'm certainly not attempting to say that all questions about 2D array traversal are typos. I've edited the examples to try to further clarify this.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Aug 17, 2021 at 0:30
  • Well, @RyanM, this is a gray area and a thin ice. I got your point, thank you. Anyway, please go to my update to the initial question and focus on my only concern at the end of the question: what is on the way of this expert to close a correct question in this way? Forget about reasons 1-3. Aug 17, 2021 at 0:46
  • 7
    @DamirTenishev What is there to stop people from incorrectly closing questions? Unfortunately, not a lot. Those of us with 3k reputation can vote to close correctly. We can also vote to reopen incorrectly closed questions, possibly after editing/commenting to clarify. Those with gold badges in one of the question's tags can forcibly close it as a duplicate correctly. And for questions you're not involved in (i.e., you aren't the asker or answerer), there are groups like SOCVR who can discuss questions and agree on how to best handle them.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Aug 17, 2021 at 0:54
  • 2
    @RyanM, this answers the question, thanks. The only things I have to add is that I hope that wrong closure when it is found affect the closer reputation. ) Otherwise there is no negative feedback to make him/her better... Aug 17, 2021 at 1:08
  • 2
    I can't punish anyone over a VTC as typo for the SO question that spawned this meta question. I'd prefer a good duplicate, but I understand and agree with the typo closure. Remember, to get the typo closure, multiple (at least two of the three voters) people have to select typo. Three voters can reopen it if they disagree. In this case no one's disagreed with the closure enough to vote to reopen. One voter with sufficiently high repute in one of the question's tags can close as a duplicate, likewise one of their peers can reopen. Aug 17, 2021 at 1:19
  • 1
    There are no 'unsigned double' values. When printing in C99 or later, you can use %f or %lf to print a double value (or, indeed, a float value since float values are converted to double by C's calling conventions) — in C90, %lf was undefined behaviour. You say "It's asking how to pass it into the kernel, not into printf" — no: the function containing the call to printf() is called GPU_kernel() but is otherwise a normal C++ function decorated with the non-standard __global__ qualifier. The code is shown as if in a single file and the calling function is definitely C++. Aug 17, 2021 at 1:58
  • The question Correct format specifier for double in printf? asks about %f vs %lf (and makes no mention of %d). The answers give the correct information, but only a bit indirectly — and the accepted answer doesn't make mention of %g, %e or %a (or the various upper-case equivalents). Aug 17, 2021 at 2:04
  • @JonathanLeffler Thanks, as I said, I'm definitely not an expert in the area. Is there a better duplicate suggestion for this?
    – Ryan M Mod
    Aug 17, 2021 at 2:13
  • As I noted in a late comment to the question, there is a much earlier question where the behaviour hinges on %d vs%f, but as I also noted, the accepted answer is less than entirely desirable. There is a good answer. There are likely to be other suitable Q&A too. I've not yet spent all that long looking for alternatives Aug 17, 2021 at 4:20
  • 5
    @DamirTenishev "that I hope that wrong closure when it is found affect the closer reputation." stones and glass houses, my friend. You also answered a duplicate instead of flagging it. Why shouldn't that that affect you but others that also didn't close as dupe?
    – VLAZ
    Aug 17, 2021 at 7:31
  • Since the question is deleted, could you please provide a screenshot for <10k users to be able to see it? (I would ask the OP, but they they don't have enough reputation either) Aug 17, 2021 at 9:51
41

The question was not closed with the correct reason. It should have been closed as a dupe, with the target being one of the innumerable "how do printf format specifiers work" questions that already exist on Stack Overflow.

What actually happened was that curators saw yet another low-effort question that could have been answered with a 5-second Google search and acted to get it closed, but did so in the incorrect manner. That doesn't make them bad people, it simply reflects the steadily-growing tide of garbage imposed on Stack Overflow daily, and its curators' steadily-decreasing level of caring for how said garbage is handled; if it belongs in the incinerator, you don't really care about separating it into glass or plastic or paper.

The symptom of "close reasons don't matter" is caused entirely by Stack Exchange Inc's refusal to raise the bar to question asking while simultaneously refusing to add tooling to empower curators to better deal with low-quality content. Don't blame the unpaid, overworked and unappreciated curators - blame the lazy, greedy owners.

19
  • 15
    Plus there are insufficient, or insufficiently expressive, close reasons. Sometimes "typo" has to stand in for "just plain stupid" or similar.
    – matt
    Aug 17, 2021 at 12:56
  • 7
    One of the things I think Stack Overflow should do is to make it easier for people to keep track of canonical duplicates. It is far harder work to find the right duplicate for a lazy question than to lazily use 'typo' as the closest available reason to "if you RTFM, you will see that you've made a silly mistake that is easily fixed by changing a very few characters in your code". Aug 17, 2021 at 14:51
  • 5
    I can relate to this answer, except for the "Don't blame the unpaid, overworked and unappreciated curators". No they should still carry some blame. It is entirely true that it is an unworkable situation which is done nothing about, but that does not mean they did no wrong - they did pick the wrong close reason. Wrong #1. If they did so because they hide behind "close reasons don't matter" - wrong #2. An unworkable situation is not a get out of jail free card, you're still obliged to try to do the right thing.
    – Gimby
    Aug 17, 2021 at 15:13
  • 3
    @Gimby We (at least I) try to do the right thing, but it's all too easy to get frustrated with the never-ending wall of crap to be dealt with in the high-traffic tags. Sometimes I probably pick the wrong close reason, or hammer with the wrong dupe, or whatever, but I (we) keep trying the best we can with the pure volume we have to deal with.
    – MattDMo
    Aug 17, 2021 at 17:38
  • 2
    @Gimby if you find somebody deliberately is using close votes with ill intent, then please flag them for moderator attention. On the whole, however, I expect that curators don't do that and indeed try to do the right thing. Again, if you have any information about users acting otherwise, please report them. Otherwise - yes, the occasional mistake happens. When you have the volume of questions SO has, then even a 0.2% mistake rate a day may mean a dozen or so misqualified answers. The volume is an additional strain on the curation activity.
    – VLAZ
    Aug 18, 2021 at 9:40
  • 2
    I think you're being a little unfair to questioners. It's true that some of them are bad at doing research, and some of them have poor problem solving skills, but it's also true that with problems like this, the failure symptoms can give you very little clue about what area the problem is in, and when you're just starting out, the amount of stuff that can go wrong because you don't fully understand it is pretty overwhelming. Be kind! Aug 18, 2021 at 9:54
  • 4
    @MichaelKay nobody is being unkind.
    – VLAZ
    Aug 18, 2021 at 10:28
  • 3
    I disagree that questions asking for utterly basic chapter 1 in the beginner's book stuff need to have a duplicate at SO. Basically "here is a duplicate summarizing chapter 1 of the text book you are too lazy to read". Just close the crap, it doesn't matter what reason you pick. Correct close reasons isn't important. Removing crap is important.
    – Lundin
    Aug 18, 2021 at 11:18
  • 2
    @MichaelKay "Starting out"? In this case, the asker is coding Cuda, but the problem is about a format specifier for printf. When you have come to Cuda you should have learned to read documentation and warning messages ages ago.
    – klutt
    Aug 18, 2021 at 13:02
  • @matt, I am strongly disagree exactly on this point. We shouldn't have a reason like "a stupid question". We must have a very specific reason. "Stupid" is a very bad feedback, especially for beginners, newbie and children (teenagers). They could be frightened and stop asking questions at all, which is much worse than asking "stupid" questions. At the end of the day, "who will guard the guardians?", I mean who is the person to discriminate "good" and "bad" questions? The worst thing we could do is to punish for the questions. The best thing is to correct them. Aug 18, 2021 at 15:19
  • @DamirTenishev I doubt that Matt meant that it literally should be called "stupid", but I agree that we need something like that. We had "too basic" in the past. And when you say that some people might be frightened and that that is worse, do you mean worse for that person or for SO and us using it as intended?
    – klutt
    Aug 18, 2021 at 19:02
  • @klutt, how do you separate "person" and "SO"? SO consist of such "persons", we can't draw a line here, it is a gray area. What I really don't understand, how such questions are in somebody's way? There is a question and there is an answer. Is your concern HDD space or what? How having a particular question and answer is in your way? The real problem is attributing, packaging, etc. If it is marked with something like a "Level of expertise", this could be helpful. For example, this one "Newbie". There are no stupid questions. Or you never were a child? I was. I still am. Aug 18, 2021 at 19:31
  • @DamirTenishev It's very easy to separate the asker from the rest. TBH, I think SO as a whole would be much better of without many posters here. And since you're asking, my concern is that it makes it harder to find a relevant question that will help me if there is a ton of bad questions laying around. Another concern is that it drastically increases the workload for us who are taking our unpaid time to moderate. Time that I could spend in more productive ways here.
    – klutt
    Aug 18, 2021 at 19:52
  • @DamirTenishev And yes, there are stupid questions. I don't see what my childhood has to do with that. And grownup who is acting like a child is usually considered stupid. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for welcoming newbies, but "welcoming" does not imply that you shouldn't be criticized when you're doing something wrong.
    – klutt
    Aug 18, 2021 at 19:56
  • 1
    @klutt, that's the point! He even couldn't have had imagined that the problem relate to printf. This is a real trap in the language. He was pretty sure that he is 100% safe with printf and would never look into manuals. He suspected for 100% that the problem is caused by moving data to CUDA. Now, imagine that he is a newbie or not a programmer (student, mechanical engineer, etc.) and try to guess how much time he could have spent trying to debug CUDA call. Of course, the professional should know this or at least understand this from debugger at a glance. But we all are newbies somewhere... Aug 18, 2021 at 21:05
9

General

Personally, I tend to focus on this:

While similar questions may be on-topic here, this one was resolved in a way less likely to help future readers.

Sure, there are tons of questions closed as typos that are not technically typos, but a result of beginners not knowing basic concepts, and also not what to search for. If I'm not mistaken, this close reason is sometimes used instead of another close reason that does not exist anymore, which was "too basic".

I don't think of it that way, but if the answer is the question "Is it likely that someone who does not already know how to answer this question would be able to find it by searching?" is "No", then this close reason is often appropriate.

Example in C:

I'm trying to zero an array, but this code gives me seg fault. What's wrong?

int x[5];
for(int i=1; i<=5; i++)
    x[i] = 0;

The knowledge OP is missing here is that C indexes from 0 and not 1. There are TONS of questions out there that have this problem. But it's not necessarily a typo. It's lack of knowledge about indexing. But this question is not worth saving, because googling "c indexing" instantly gives you the answer. Also, as I said, there are TONS of question with this problem, but they don't get found. Technically, it would be better to close these as duplicates, but it's hard to motivate the effort searching for a suitable duplicate. Especially since no one would find them anyway. The only reason I would search for a duplicate here is to instaclose it, since I have a gold badge for C.

There are also other things that are not strictly typos, but instead lack of debugging and/or brain farts. Like this.

Find the min value in an array

int min = 0
for(int i=0; i<size; i++)
    min = min<arr[i] ? min : arr[i];

The bug here is that min should be initialized to arr[0] and not 0. Is this a typo? We would have to ask OP for that. And that's the thing. It does not make any sense to determine the closing of a question on the reason OP made the mistake. I would close this as a typo too.

Only closing for typo when it's a real typo makes this close reason very restricted and not very useful. So instead of focusing on if it's a typo in this specific case I tend to focus on if it would be a likely typo to make in the general case.

Both of the above examples could be found in professional code, and then they would be typos or brain farts. In either case, they are not likely to help future readers.

This specific question

The question is about Cuda. That's a pretty advanced topic. The problem is the format string for printf. That's a very basic topic. Especially since the problem is that OP is trying to print a float with a specifier for an integer. This is stuff that you typically learn the first week of C coding. If not the first hour. It is also something that would be very easy to find by activating compiler warnings.

There exists TONS of questions about this particular problem. You could argue that the "correct" way would be to find a suitable duplicate and then close it as such. But the correct thing to do after this would be to delete the question with motivation "unneeded duplicate". So why not simply close it as typo? It's not that important. Especially since it would not be a good signpost because its focus is Cuda.

This question should not have been asked in the first place. The answer OP would benefit most from is not: "The specifier for floats is %f and not %d". The best answer (although somewhat blunt and not suitable for SO) is: "Read the documentation for the function you're having problem with and enable compiler warnings and read them."

And thing is, a complete beginner can be excused for not understanding that. But someone who are coding Cuda should know better.

12
  • 4
    I disagree with the last sentence: if the knowledge isn't on Stack Overflow specifically, the question is worth saving. The answers to virtually all questions are out there somewhere. The question is whether they've been answered here. And fnding such a question with a query about segfaults would be useful to a new C programmer. That's the value of it existing: because it might help someone else later who might find it by searching.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Aug 17, 2021 at 6:29
  • 1
    That specific question is almost certainly a duplicate, of course: as you say, there are tons of questions with that problem. We can close all but one as duplicates of a canonical (maybe this), but as you say, they're not typos, so I'm not sure what you mean by "not worth saving."
    – Ryan M Mod
    Aug 17, 2021 at 6:32
  • 3
    I can wholeheartedly agree with your last paragraph: We shouldn't care whether the issue was a typo for the OP, just as we don't care for the specifics of the OP in many other cases. Questions "belong" to the community, the OP just happens to be the person to write them down. If it's reasonable to assume most people have that problem due to typos, it is a typo. Aug 17, 2021 at 14:24
  • 2
    @MisterMiyagi And also, it's reasonable to assume that even if it is not a typo, they will never find that question.
    – klutt
    Aug 18, 2021 at 10:14
  • 1
    @RyanM If a question does not help anyone, it does not have any value. In order for a question to help anyone, that person must find it. So if no one finds it, it does not have any value. You could argue that it has a potential value, like a Picasso painting. The value of the painting solely relies on if someone wants to buy it or not. If no one wants to buy it, then it's worthless.
    – klutt
    Aug 18, 2021 at 10:26
  • @RyanM Besides, it's specifically stated that SO is a complement and not a replacement for tutoring and documentation. It's not far fetched to say that this implies that questions that are better solved by tutoring and documentation does not belong here.
    – klutt
    Aug 18, 2021 at 11:19
  • @klutt - Well, you admit several times that tons of questions are closed as typos that are not {technically,necessarily,strictly} typos, and you do that too, justifying it with unlikeliness of getting found or helping readers. Regardless of all good intent you have, I cannot help identifying the use of an inappropriate close reason as abuse. (The right thing to do would be to promote the (re)implementation of a suitable close reason.)
    – Armali
    Aug 18, 2021 at 16:31
  • @Armali Do you really think it matters if we first close it as a dup and then delete the question? If so, how?
    – klutt
    Aug 18, 2021 at 18:23
  • What I think matters in general is refrain from doing wrong, and misusing a close option is simply, clearly and definitely wrong.
    – Armali
    Aug 18, 2021 at 20:56
  • @Armali It's not "clearly wrong". That's your opinion and not objectively true. Some people, like you, think that rules are rules and they should always be followed. Others, like me, think that consequences are more important. If the end result is the same anyway, why chose the option that means more work?
    – klutt
    Aug 19, 2021 at 5:08
  • 1
    It's objectively true that rules are rules, and it's my opinion that they should be followed even if it means more work. In our case, the end result is not the same, because the deleted question is still visible to the OP, showing the inglorious closing for a wrong reason, shedding a bad light on us, as it's telling that we require others to follow our rules, while we ourselves think we needn't.
    – Armali
    Aug 19, 2021 at 6:40
  • @Armali Sure, there are small differences. But I don't think they are significant enough. But there is actually ONE reason that would make me put in the effort to close it as a dup, and that is that then I could use my gold hammer to close it faster.
    – klutt
    Aug 19, 2021 at 6:57
7

This wasn't closed because there is one letter wrong or a typo. It was closed for being a very bad question.

The main issue here is that the poster could easily have answered this themselves, if:

  • They had read chapter 1 of any C programming book. SO is not a replacement for traditional studies.
  • Or if they had done a quick Internet search.
  • Or if they had used a decent compiler and paid attention to warning.

Back in the days there was a close reason "must demonstrate a minimum of knowledge of the topic being discussed" but we don't have that any longer. So any other close reason will suffice, which one isn't important. What's important is that we close zero effort, really bad questions as quickly as possible.

Now of course the root of the problem here is that someone working with CUDA, which is an advanced topic, really ought to be able to trouble-shoot wrong format specifier beginner bugs themselves. They even found the line with the bug - after which they really just need to look at that line for a few seconds to find the problem.

There's some myth saying that there are no stupid questions, but 10+ years of SO rather proves empirically that there are a few questions which aren't stupid. Now of course we can't go around and call people stupid and there is no close reason for stupid questions. So just pick any close reason that seems most fitting - don't spend time on questions like this. Down vote, close vote, move on.

17
  • I really dislike the stand you show. Everybody is a newbie in some area. Of course, reading is a must. But people have a right to ask questions. I totally and strongly against any kind of punishment for the questions. Questions is what differs us from computers, they could only provide answers so far. Punishing from questions, you kill curiosity, since weak ones (newbie, children, etc.) will further be afraid of asking and suffer later from impostor syndrome. People ask at the level they have at the moment and I welcome this. With RTFM reason we could close 90% of answers here... Aug 18, 2021 at 15:09
  • 7
    "But people have a right to ask questions." No. Jeff Atwood: "We believe asking questions on our site is a privilege, not a right." Aug 18, 2021 at 15:13
  • Getting back to the topic, please see all my comments. I am not asking why the question was closed. I am concerned with the reason and where it could lead. Anyway, I already got the answer from @RyanM, but it seems that somebody edited my question. Aug 18, 2021 at 15:14
  • 1
    I think it's sad to see that as soon as someone addresses the problems with newbie questions, you have "bad attitude" and get downvoted. I think Lundins post is spot on.
    – klutt
    Aug 18, 2021 at 18:25
  • 6
    @DamirTenishev You're a very new user here. One question and zero answers. I strongly suspect that if and when you start to answer questions and curate and moderate you'll see how much of a problem this really is. And no, you do not kill curiosity from punishing bad questions. Those who are curious for real tend to ask good questions after performing required research.
    – klutt
    Aug 18, 2021 at 18:30
  • 6
    @DamirTenishev When I'm a newbie in some area, I don't go out on some internet site and ask inane questions the first thing I do. I study books, manuals, reference designs, from trustworthy sources, for a month or so. And should I need to ask something, I research it first and try to find the answer myself. Like... is it possible that I'm the first person in the 50 years of history of C programming that has a problem with printf? Not very likely. "People ask at the level they have at the moment" If you haven't even read chapter 1 of a beginner-level book you aren't at any level.
    – Lundin
    Aug 18, 2021 at 18:41
  • @Lundin, well you are right and wrong. This is your way of studying. It worthy of respect. Being honest, I mostly do in the same way. But, for example Stack Overflow became one of exceptions of me. I try and learn instead of reading tons of manuals. The key difference here is either you consider this knowledge as key or as supplementary. Have you read all manuals about your car, phone or TV? I am not. Sometimes we use some things occasionally just as users and don't waste much time for manuals. "If nothing helps, read the manual" - and "nothing" includes questions here. Aug 18, 2021 at 19:26
  • 5
    @DamirTenishev It sounds like you're trying to say that it's ok to ask others to read the manual for you. And I don't think car, phone and TV are good comparisons. Because, in general, programming is not something you do occasionally. And SO is aimed at professionals. The thought have NEVER been that beginners should get personal tutoring here. Besides, I don't see your point with car, phone and TV. No, I have not read the manuals from first to last page for those. But if I have a problem, I'll read it before asking others to spend their free time to help me. Anything else would be rude.
    – klutt
    Aug 18, 2021 at 20:09
  • "10+ years of SO rather proves empirically that there are a few questions which aren't stupid" Did you mean "which are stupid?
    – TylerH
    Aug 18, 2021 at 20:53
  • @klutt, this is a reasonable point of view, but not the only. I tend to agree with you, but there some deviations. "Now Knowing Cheers the Knowing", so all this is a gray area. When one gets an error, it is hard to understand what is necessary to read or you have to read a lot. Sometimes people use programming language not as professionals, but as users (students, some engineers, designers, etc.), it happens. For them it is hard to learn all these books from cover to cover. Like if you (let me make a wild guess) were asked to fix TV by tonight. You will ask instead of studying electronics. Aug 18, 2021 at 21:00
  • @DamirTenishev "it is hard to understand what is necessary to read or you have to read a lot" - Yep, but it's not those cases we're talking about now. We're talking about when it's obvious that they have not even looked at the documentation for the specific function they are asking about or that they have not even tried to search for the error message to see if someone else have gotten the same.
    – klutt
    Aug 19, 2021 at 5:17
  • 2
    @*"Sometimes people use programming language not as professionals, but as users (students, some engineers, designers, etc.)"* - That counts as professionals in this regard. A student is still expected to learn. Because the alternative is that they simply want us to do their job so they can pass a course they don't deserve to pass. If you want a programmer to do something quickly for you and on your terms, hire a programmer. Or go to a forum where pro coders answers zero effort questions for free. SO is not that forum.
    – klutt
    Aug 19, 2021 at 5:20
  • 2
    "the root of the problem here is that someone working with CUDA, really ought to be able to trouble-shoot wrong format specifier beginner bugs themselves." Depends on the diagnostics. Even if they share your view of what's simple and what's advanced, we've all made the mistake when debugging of assuming that the problem must be with the difficult part of the code and not the easy part. Aug 19, 2021 at 7:28
  • And I really don't like the "really ought to be able to" part of this. I've been programming for 50 years and I still make silly mistakes and sometimes it takes me ridiculously long to find them, and a second pair of eyes really helps. In a world where everyone is working at home, that second pair of eyes will often be SO. Aug 19, 2021 at 7:31
  • 2
    @MichaelKay Sure, everyone makes silly mistakes. But if you have failed to spot it yourself and someone on SO does it for you, then you shouldn't get upset if your silly mistake question gets closed because it has been asked 1000 times before, which is the argument here. Rather, your reaction should be "of course, such a silly mistake".
    – Lundin
    Aug 19, 2021 at 9:43
-1

Sometimes I wonder whether we should have a separate "StackOverflow for beginners" forum. Stuff posted there in good faith would never be closed for any reason, and would never be downvoted, it would just disappear after six months, whether answered or not. Until you acquire a certain reputation, any questions you post go into the beginners forum. If a good question or good answer gets sufficiently upvoted, it moves to the main site.

9
  • 4
  • 1
    Who would go there? Most the people that answer questions on SO won't. Sure some would but most won't. If we assume that all the beginners would post their questions there, then there would be even more questions for every answerer. Beginners seeing their questions aren't answered much would go and post on SO main.
    – VLAZ
    Aug 18, 2021 at 10:17
  • The '"StackOverflow for beginners" forum' would then be the place where people could post their (home)work assignment dumps, typos, links to repositories and questions about career advice. There'd be no quality control at all, but reputation for the users (else it would be to hard to reach the main site)? Sounds like a low quality free help desk. Aug 18, 2021 at 11:10
  • I've proposed this several times myself, or rather that SO as it is can be the beginner's platform and then we could create a different site for professionals. But as always when you point at one of the core design flaws on SO, nobody wants to acknowledge it.
    – Lundin
    Aug 18, 2021 at 11:38
  • While I disagree about making separate tiers, I whole-heatedly agree about the problem that people here are sometimes a bit unfair, or perhaps a bit aggressive to people who are starting out. Especially in issues that might sound obvious after years of coding (Index starting from 0 instead of 1 etc). (continued..) Aug 18, 2021 at 14:10
  • And while I agree that many questions will be duplicated and should be removed, helping people resolve those issues without totally attacking them, or mass downvoting them would be a better idea. For a beginner, there could be tens of things that would've been wrong. The only thing separating those questions from "good" questions is the experiance to know what is right and what is not often. Getting -5, aggresive comments and having your question closed in that order when you see nothing wrong in your question because the answer was obvious to everyone else is just not it. Aug 18, 2021 at 14:10
  • 1
    @ZaidAlShattle SO strives to be a repository of high-quality programming knowledge, not a free help desk. Aug 18, 2021 at 14:17
  • And how do you define and know if you can ask a question, and if that question is "high-quality"? After a month of experience? a year? 20?. Experience is built by people overtime, and this knowledge is built by people finding issues and trying to solve them. I personally find the way people approach this fact disagreeable, but each to their own. And I'd think even if you go now to the most upvoted questions this month, almost all fulfill this criteria, of being a "help-desk-like" question. Additionally, even here:stackoverflow.com/help/on-topic it is agreed that those questions are ok. Aug 18, 2021 at 14:22
  • 1
    @Lundin yes, it's depressing how often constructive suggestions for improving StackOverflow attract downvotes. We seem to be a community that loves moaning about the current state of affairs but hates any proposals for changes. Aug 19, 2021 at 7:35

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .