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Problem

New users sometimes:

  1. use many unrelated (wrong) tags.
  2. ask off-topic questions, despite the warning in excerpts.

Issue

We have a tag excerpt, but it's only shown to the user for a very short moment while typing the tag:



It seems to me they are simply not seeing that text in the dropdown long enough to pay attention. I think displaying tags excerpts in a more prominent way may help. Especially for off-topic warnings like in e.g. tag on a screenshot above.

Thoughts

I believe the user will add tags at the end and only as a part of an "annoying" process of posting: cmon, let me post my question, what's with these stupid tags, click, click, done. In other words, they don't see important notices there, no matter bold font, caps, exclamation points, etc.

There is feature: "system's automatically suggested tags, which are based on keywords present in your question's title and body". So this may (will?) add the tags without the user even seeing the tag excerpt at all, right?

We have ask question wizard. Visiting https://stackoverflow.com/questions/ask/wizard link simply jump to https://stackoverflow.com/questions/ask for me. Is the wizard still there and works? It could be I've disabled it somehow. But if it works, how the tags excerpt is shown there? I assume (don't want to create a new account to test it) wizard has the same issue and tags are entered at the end very briefly, right?

Discussion

Maybe request the user to specify the tags first? What if excerpts for selected tags are always shown to the user somewhere (on the right?)? Or very prominently displayed during review-step?

Another idea would be to add attributes to tags for the system to automatically generate tuned warnings when tags are selected (shown during the review step?). E.g. "main language" attribute. If set will allow producing a warning if more than one main language tag is selected:

You have selected more than one main language tag. Such questions have a big risk of being downvoted or vote-closed as too broad ... [links to help center/meta]

Or if the "off-topic" attribute is set for either of the selected tags:

The selected tag is very likely to be an off-topic question (will be downvoted and closed). Make sure you are asking programmer question ... [links to help center/meta]

What do you think? Is the issue real and big enough or only in my head? How else can we solve it?

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  • 36
    Some users don't even bother reading (anything), let alone the tag excerpts.. What makes you think they'll read the tags? We get questions all the time in other languages (because it's not obvious that Stack Overflow is English); we get questions that are severely off topic as shown by in the tour. The problem is the users, not the site, and they will quickly earn a question ban if they don't learn to read after a question or 2.
    – Thom A
    Jun 25, 2021 at 9:50
  • 1
    The "ask question wizard" is the old one and has been replaced with the current one as the final version. However, considering it's only a warning and not a blocker, what happens if they have read the tag info and still post the question?
    – Andrew T.
    Jun 25, 2021 at 9:52
  • 6
    @Larnu just to add to that list, we also get questions tagged, for example Python, JavaScript, C, C#, Ruby even if the question actually only has Ruby code. Because the users just want "any programmers" (or something like that) to come to their aid, not just people who actually know Ruby. And even if we do require them to read the tag wiki...wouldn't that just turn into another Terms And Conditions page where (in)famously one just scrolls to the bottom and clicks OK? I'm aware there are crazy people who actually read it (I'm one of them) but most don't. Tags wouldn't change this.
    – VLAZ
    Jun 25, 2021 at 9:54
  • @Larnu, then why and for how we write "OFF-TOPIC" in tag excerpt? For veterans? I thought it's for new users. And currently there is a problem for them to be able to read those.
    – Sinatr
    Jun 25, 2021 at 9:55
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    I know, @VLAZ, I was just giving a couple of examples of users that post but don't read; I could list plenty more if I really wanted. For example, many seem to be only able to read parts of a comment. If one says "Can you provide your sample data and expected results? What is the logic to get from A to B? What were you're attempts to do this?" They only have the capacity to read the first question "Can you provide sample data[?]". 4 questions is too many for them to comprehend. ;)
    – Thom A
    Jun 25, 2021 at 9:58
  • 6
    It's not that they are unable to, @Sinatr , it's that they choose not to. Trust me, this isn't a problem just on Stack Overflow. I have to get players in a table top game I play to read their card all the time because they ask "how does this work?", when it's actually in plain text right in front of them; and it tells them exactly what to do in the scenario they are in. Stack Overflow can't fix people's laziness.
    – Thom A
    Jun 25, 2021 at 10:00
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    As soon as you use terminology such as "force", you've already lost the discussion. That is not what this is about, it's about making tag excerpts more visible (or should I say: in your face). But to solve which problem exactly? The fact that certain people use the site as a personal helpdesk and ignore each and every signal presented to them in their mission to get their question out ASAP? That is something that we will have to live with - forever.
    – Gimby
    Jun 25, 2021 at 11:30
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    "prominently displayed" - yeah, that would be nice. At least for the benefit of some users that still do read those (I know that the general sentiment regarding tags is defeatist, but things are not that dismal as people think). Force, though? Nope, probably will just annoy well-intentioned ones and will obviously not affect those who don't give a damn. At least making sure that the "do not use" and "this is about Y" when they ask about X should be prominent. Currently, it is laughably delegated to a popup no one reads. Jun 25, 2021 at 11:38
  • 2
    I also took the liberty of replacing the trigger word for many and made some editorial changes to hopefully improve reception - feel free to override if anything does not align with you. As an editor with an investment in tags, I like the idea of improving tag info visibility - tags as a whole is an unjsutly neglected feature. Jun 25, 2021 at 11:41
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    Truth be told, it took me a while (years?) to realise tags actually have a short and long description. Displaying the information more prominently seems useful to me. Jun 25, 2021 at 11:48
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    @Gimby Actually there were quite a few that I did not use properly, even if it wasn't harmful. The tag wikis in specific would have been useful, but I had zero reason to assume they existed – and thus indeed never looked for them. Jun 25, 2021 at 13:57
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    @Gimby "would it have helped you in any way though?" the JavaScript tag info is pretty useful to me, since that's where I go to find a lot of the duplicates people have questions about. There is an FAQ section. The last one is What does this symbol mean in JavaScript? which contains the canonical list of operators and syntax questions. That's what I link people to, when they ask what does ?? mean, for example. Of course, had they checked the tag info, they'd have found it themselves.
    – VLAZ
    Jun 25, 2021 at 14:17
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    The majority of questions here now are from school kids who didn't listen or read in class, expecting them to read anything here is an exercise in futility, most just want teh codez. Since this site now relies on this type of user for traffic, I am not sure there is much that can be done.
    – TheGeneral
    Jun 28, 2021 at 0:17
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    We already give a warning when people ask a SEO question, see Provide asking instructions for SEO. How's that working out? Do we have any metrics on the number of abandoned SEO questions as compared to abandoned non-SEO questions? We still get several SEO questions per day but how does that compare to the number we got before implementing the warning?
    – dbc
    Jun 28, 2021 at 2:00
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    @TheMaster, sure, you can edit the question as you feel it has to be.
    – Sinatr
    Sep 14, 2022 at 15:53

3 Answers 3

14

Without extreme changes to the way that questions can be asked or the way that users interact with the site, every line of prose in any one of those tag wikis is ripe for being ignored, even if it contains good and useful information.

2
  • Anything that would make even a fraction of users read what the tag about would be helpful. We lost the (for some of us) very useful [music] tag (programming Qs about music notation/theory/etc.) because people used it synonymously with [audio] ("how do I play this mp3 in Android?") and once it was deleted, so went about 100 Qs that no longer had any tags. Jun 26, 2021 at 22:36
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    @MichaelScottCuthbert eh, that would be weird, how could on topic questions have no programming tags about the programming tools they use?
    – Braiam
    Jun 27, 2021 at 13:12
6

You're trying to catch them at the wrong point in time.

New users frequently brute-force their way to the first textbox that will accept their input, with absolutely no time and regard for anything else. They have a laser-like focus on that one goal, and nothing will get them off track.

I personally don't think we can stop this, nor would it be helpful to try.
The best thing we can do is to make it as easy and painless as possible to get these questions closed as fast as possible. At that point the askers will be waiting for an answer, so there's a much better chance that they'll be receptive to feedback.

4

Maybe request the user to specify the tags first? What if excerpts for selected tags are always shown to the user somewhere (on the right?)? Or very prominently displayed during review-step?

I think this is a great idea. The question wizard can be greatly improved by changing a few things.

  1. Tags first. Body next. Title last.

  2. When tags are entered, instead of a popup of tag excerpt, a specific block below can be added with the tag excerpt information.

  3. The excerpt information will be displayed as long as the user finishes typing in the rest of the question. So, the user has a chance to look at the excerpt, while using their time on working their question. The block displaying the excerpt will automatically scroll side to side/ down to top every few seconds to display the excerpts one by one. This provides a non blocking way to ensure a pleasant experience, while also grabbing their attention to display excerpts. I know not how many users use mobile devices to ask questions, but currently the tag info excerpt isn't even displayed on mobile browsers, when a tag is added in the question wizard. That is bad.

  4. Titles last. This will get better titles from users than the current wizard.

    If you're having trouble summarizing the problem, write the title last - sometimes writing the rest of the question first can make it easier to describe the problem.

    https://stackoverflow.com/help/how-to-ask

    The "ask" page says that, but the wizard, which is supposed to help, just does the opposite.

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