9

As a regular follower of questions around the , , and tags, it is really getting tough to manage (tag correct) the amount of questions that get tagged for text processing questions involving , , or other standard tools.

The idea is to encourage using a shell agnostic tag like, and/or , similar to how it's implemented over Unix.SE. The [text-formatting] rightly quotes it as

Questions about using command-line utilities such as awk, sed, perl, pr, etc. to format text files.

Can we prompt adding these tags at the time of adding any of the text processing tags and leave out the shell specifics completely?

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  • 7
    If we could at least somehow prevent askers from adding the bash tag to questions about sed/awk/grep/perl that'd be a huge step. I'm tired of retagging Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 6:36
  • 27
    They add it because they are [bash]ing their head against the wall trying to do this text processing.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 6:38
  • 16
    I'm not entirely sure how adding a generic [text-processing] tag would help matters. You can already get the list of latest questions with a set of tags, so having them all consolidated under a single tag is not necessary. It also seems like useful information that the asker wants to use a specific tool to accomplish the task. Why should that information not be captured in the tags?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 6:39
  • 8
    One problem is that casual visitors select one or a few of these tools into their tags without specifying whether solutions in any of the others would also be acceptable. Conversely, if your problem is "how do I extract the third column of lines which contain 'foo' in the sixth field" how would you know to add the obvious awk if you ... don't know?
    – tripleee
    Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 6:48
  • 6
    There are ingenious id ... beginners with all kinds of flawed assumptions, we don't necessarily want to close them out just for not having reached a place where they can ask or even answer well-defined textbook questions.
    – tripleee
    Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 7:02
  • 11
    What if they want to do it using the shell in Linux? Why are those tags inappropriate?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 7:25
  • 5
    @CodyGray its perfectly fine, but the problem comes when they don't stick to their original requirement. People start answering in various tags even if the question is restrictive of processing via shell. Before you know it, there are 6-7 answers on various tags and people even retag the Q to add their own fav tags to it, making the Q completely a diff one than the original one.
    – Inian
    Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 7:31
  • 8
    @Inian if you see someone editing a question to add tags due to the answer they added then you should rollback that edit. Tags should represent the question being asked, not the answer(s) being given.
    – Thom A
    Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 8:32
  • 11
    If text-processing is required, isn't it already too broad? That is, it is a work order (here are the requirements; write a script for me; it doesn't matter which tool is used; thanks in advance), not a question. Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 10:31
  • 13
    The tag text-processing works fine on Unix & Linux, however it might be problematic here. In contrast to Unix & Linux, Stack Overflow goes beyond *ux operating systems. The tag could become to broad.
    – kvantour
    Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 15:40
  • 5
    @Braiam: where *UX users have cat, tail, head, PS users use Get-Content and CMD users use type or other tools available in the Windows Resource Kit. *UX users have grep, PS users use Select-String and CMD users use findstr . As you see text-formatting might attract the wrong interest group. It should be combined with a particular OS-tag minimally, or a particular suggested tool (PS,shell,sed,...)
    – kvantour
    Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 8:22
  • 2
    @user000001 Then we should add all popular tags to our questions to achieve maximum visibility. Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 13:26
  • 4
    People grow into tools and ask questions about things they're unfamiliar with. Demanding foreknowledge of the full range of unix-type tools before asking a question is misguided. The site's purpose is to have easy-to-find, general, reusable solutions. A person using a Mac and its archaic version of awk or ruby can often take advantage of a solution provided for a question originating from many platforms using many tools. Tags should reflect that. An added bonus is that if people have a simple tag to watch, they will learn more.
    – Mockman
    Commented Jun 19, 2021 at 11:47
  • 5
    It is counterproductive to view this as a morality issue. The current situation, which requires an array of tags (for tools, for platforms, for environments) is a unforced error and I thought, the type which unix/linux had put behind them. Even those opposed concede there are issues. For the site, it creates repetitive, low-value work. I should add that there are many great questions that have answers spanning a multitude of tools and platforms but they're all on the same subject and accessible to many more people because of that. I think that's a good thing.
    – Mockman
    Commented Jun 19, 2021 at 11:48
  • 3
    I really wish this question had been tagged with the impacted tags such as sed, awk, bash, etc. so those of us who use those tags and so are impacted by the result would have been aware of it and could have voiced our opinions. At this point, 2 weeks after it was posted, it'd be pointless adding impacted tags now as no-one would see it anyway. First I became aware of this was when I noticed a question tagged with awk and with an awk answer having it's awk tag removed and unix-text-processing added instead which IMHO is not useful and then I discovered it's been happening to other questions too
    – Ed Morton
    Commented Jul 4, 2021 at 19:07

5 Answers 5

13

We're talking about the kinds of text processing you might want in / can do from a shell script. That's a real thing, and (unless you choose to avail yourself of the shell's own built-in tools like read and printf), the shell you're using doesn't matter a lot, so [bash] isn't an ideal tag, but it's better than expecting people to tag [awk] and/or [sed]. The specific Unix tool you use doesn't matter either: you don't know ahead of time whether grep | cut | tail is going to be a nicer solution than awk or sed, or even perl, and you don't particularly care beyond possible efficiency and maintainability.

As Braiam points out, a [text-processing] tag has worked well on Unix.SE, where the context of a shell-script can be implicit from asking on that site.

On Stack Overflow, [text-processing] would probably get mis-used for questions about doing things to strings in languages like C++, C#, Java, Python, etc. in contexts that don't involve a shell script.

I propose [unix-text-processing] to make it more clear from the tag name alone (because tag usage guidance gets ignored a depressing amount of time when the tag name catches people's attention). (Or possibly [shell-text-processing], although I don't like that as much.)

The name solves the ambiguity problem, and then it can do everything for SO that [text-processing] does for unix.SE.

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  • Meh, askers misusing text-processing should just remove that tag, if there's a clear indication that a specific tool is preferred.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 10:46
  • 2
    @Braiam: You're objecting to having tag-names imply a context, making them easy to mis-tag if people don't read the popup? Why is that better? Saving 5 characters in the tag name is that valuable? Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 10:57
  • No, I'm saying that the "unix" in the tag name isn't needed. MS is trying to create Linux standard tools on Windows (and also allowing Windows-only tools to run in Linux), so having a tag that encapsulates all those tools would allow the tags about those tools to be laser focused. Also, mistagging is par-of course. We just have to set the tone and maintain it for a while. Having unix in the tag name doesn't help preventing those.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 11:31
  • 2
    [sorting], [searching], etc. those tags describe a task, but it's too generic and you can't argue that they should be removed of a question since "welp, they are about searching and sorting stuff, so the must have both tags". This tag is totally different to those, since by default it doesn't accept any other tag.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 15:12
  • 1
    @Braiam: Right, I can agree those tags aren't great, and won't add much for people looking for questions to answer, or for future readers looking for answers to new questions. But with a name like [text-processing], it's not obvious from the name itself that it's non-generic. That's why I'm suggesting [unix-text-processing]. It would be better if everyone read tag popups so the name alone didn't need to do that work, but we live in the real world. My proposal is to accept a name that's longer than we'd like, and includes the word "unix" when it can apply elsewhere, to save retagging work. Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 15:32
  • 1
    @Braiam: You'd rather spend 15 minutes every day retagging mis-tagged questions, instead of coming up with a tag name that prevents most mis-tagging? Much better to anticipate the problem ahead of time, if we can come up with a satisfactory tag name. Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 18:23
  • 1
    @Braiam: Of course it's inevitable, but a well-crafted tag name can significantly reduce mis-tagging. For example, that's why [we renamed [mars] to [sql-server-mars]](Tag rename: [mars] to [ms-sql-mars], so [mars] can be about the MIPS simulator)). This case may not be as clear-cut as that (where that entirely stemmed the tide of mis-tagged mars-simulator questions), but I expect it will help significantly. It's better not to have to edit in the first place. Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 19:22
  • 2
    @Braiam: I feel like you're being disingenuous, or at least missing my point. Of course nobody would use it instead of a tag like [c] or [php]; that wasn't what I was trying to avoid. But someone who hadn't read the tag description popup might well tag it along side [c]. But I think that would be a lot less likely if it was named [unix-text-processing]. Commented Jun 19, 2021 at 0:20
  • 1
    @Braiam: I don't understand what you're even saying with that last comment. SO requires questions to have at least one tag, doesn't it? Also, I don't see how the ability to remove tags from existing questions have anything to do with discouraging new users from tagging them where they're not appropriate. Commented Jun 19, 2021 at 11:06
  • 1
    @Braiam: I agree with you on everything except the idea that the tag-name should include something to make it less generic. [unix-text-processing], [shell-text-processing], [script-text-processing], or something like that would reduce (not eliminate) use of that tag where it shouldn't be used. They wouldn't help people find it in the first place to use instead of [sed] [awk], or [bash]. I agree that [unix-text-processing] isn't a perfect name, but considering the tradeoffs, I like it better than [text-processing]. Commented Jun 19, 2021 at 18:01
  • 4
    As one of the top answerers of questions tagged awk, sed, or grep on SO I'm disappointed that I had no idea this discussion had happened as it's not tagged with those or any other impacted tool and then today I discovered we now have people running around SO replacing the awk and sed tags with just the unix-text-processing tag. That's a good way to ensure that awk and sed experts never see the questions.
    – Ed Morton
    Commented Jul 4, 2021 at 18:00
  • 2
    @PeterCordes has a decision been made? How did that happen? I see a question with 11 upvotes and an accepted answer with 12 (which just means the person who asked the question and a few others liked it) and somehow that tiny number of participants has resulted in significant changes to SO with no input from any significant number of people who'd be impacted by that change. I don't understand how we got to that point.
    – Ed Morton
    Commented Jul 4, 2021 at 18:23
  • 3
    But we don't even know if anyone cares or agrees that there's a problem yet. The question has 11 and your answer 12 upvotes - that's hardly a consensus of people impacted by this proposed change. I'd guess that, like you, almost no-one voting on this actually participates in the impacted tags on SO. I'm not criticizing your response or anything, you're welcome to your opinion of course. I'd really like whoever wants this change to push for participation and acceptance rather than me have to do it.
    – Ed Morton
    Commented Jul 4, 2021 at 18:32
  • 2
    @Inian understood but then it would've been good to tag the question with the tags impacted by it to get input from the people impacted by it. Right now it's been asked, has an accepted answer (from someone who doesn't participate in the tags on SO), and people are taking action on it and I doubt if the tiniest fraction of people impacted by it even know the question was asked, never mind had an opportunity to voice an opinion on it. sed and awk questions being retagged with unix-text-processing are effectively disappearing into a black hole.
    – Ed Morton
    Commented Jul 4, 2021 at 19:26
  • 1
    Ah, I see. I assumed because it was all stackoverflow.com.... Thanks for letting me know.
    – Ed Morton
    Commented Jul 5, 2021 at 13:32
18

In Unix and Linux we have a generic text-processing tag. It has been glorious. We stopped arguing about whenever should we add/remove sed, awk, zsh, perl, tr, etc. because at the end of the day, the asker doesn't care what they use, just that they solve the underlying problem. It's the XY problem all again, just that the Y is a red herring about using a specific tool when any tool would work, and we can't decide which tag to apply (on some questions we argued that it should have every tag). So, instead of having 5 tags, we used 1 tag identifying the task rather than the tool.

This has shifted tool tags to be actually about the specific tools. When introduced we didn't back fill all the questions to use the tag instead, so that's why it isn't still the biggest tag on the site. But it has been one of the most helpful at stopping us from having long and unproductive discussions about whenever to add a tag or not just because the asker accepted the answer in awk while he was asking for a sed solution.

The tag wiki says:

Use this tag when your question is about processing text files and you're not sure which tool to use. If your question is about a specific tool, use its tag. If your question is about multiple tools, include this tag and the tags for the other tools.

When asking a text processing question, you should always

  • Explain the task you need to do
  • include a reasonable part of your input file (preformatted by indenting with four whitespaces)
  • include the expected output for this input data (also formatted)
  • give your attempt to solve the problem and what didn't work (this is not to embarrass you, it helps to give an explanation for the solution, so you'll learn to help yourself next time)
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    But Unix.SE has limited tools for text processing, while on SO it's also possible to use Python, Java, C#, [insert your favorite programming language] to process text outside of shell-based tools. Are we okay with answers for any programming language?
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 13:25
  • 1
    @AndrewT. well, at least you have specific tags for those tools, like python, java etc. and people removes them where it doesn't make sense. Here is about a task "processing text with whatever tool I have at our disposal". BTW, on UL we use python, perl, etc. where it makes sense (and we can make safe assumptions that those tools are available). It's not as if we will replace java with this tag just because it's processing text. It's a tag for "processing text files and you're not sure which tool to use."
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 14:50
  • 1
    The part I don't like about this seems adequately expressed well by the "you're not sure which tool to use" part - it means the question has not put down even the bare minimum of narrowing down the problem. I don't see how such questions can be about specific issues; rather, the scope is automatically about writing an entire solution/program from scratch. That is not something I feel should be encouraged by having tags for it. Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 17:38
  • 1
    @MisterMiyagi well, that's the lesser evil rather than having a discussion under every question because OP asked for a sed solution and accepted an awk answer.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 18:02
  • @Braiam I could not disagree more. If people create bad content, the response should not be to declare that as the new standard. Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 19:17
  • @MisterMiyagi well, try to police that.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 21:09
  • 3
    @Braiam I do try. That's why I am not at all cool with requests to sabotage what quality criteria there are. Because someone is going to smugly point at this meta here and be all "stack overflow doesn't have any trouble with broad questions, see the text-processing tag". Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 21:17
  • @MisterMiyagi I would instead choose my battles, for example [regex]. We literally got moderators against curators and siding with reopen drivel questions. At least this way we get low quality shoved into something else that isn't regex.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 1:18
  • 3
    @Braiam So because [regex] works so well, let's introduce [regex] 2: free for all? At least this way we can officially endorse low quality question. - Sorry, not interested in buying that bridge. I vastly prefer preventing battles. Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 6:44
  • 1
    By evidence, I assume you mean the tag on Unix.SE? I don't see how that is evidence - the thing that makes it useful there seems to be contrary to what would it take to be useful on Stack Overflow. I am not saying quality depends on tags. I am not saying not having these tags would make the questions go away. I am not denying these tags might clear the main tags. What I do oppose is the idea to quarantine these questions and fix the issue later on - because the suggested quarantine would legitimate this content; there is nothing to fix once we accept that content as being okay. Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 14:08
  • 2
    @Braiam Shifting content between tags is at best a zero sum game – the stuff is going to end up somewhere. But in specific, I feel it would make things worse because it would legitimate this bad content as a desirable category. I feel it would make things worse because it creates (another?) precedent that people can point to and say "why can they post turds but not us?". Seeing what the regex tag is used to justify is bad enough already... Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 19:06
  • 1
    This is horrible idea. If someone needs to process text and doesn't even know where to start, which tool to use, is standard definition of too broad, unclear and write my code questions.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jun 19, 2021 at 9:14
  • 1
    So what is the problem? Vote to close them. Yes, I know not all will get closed, but I don't see how having a tag solves anything here.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jun 19, 2021 at 11:15
  • 1
    @Braiam How do you make people actually use this tag? It's not obvious at all that you don't just stamp whatever tools you use like in other cases and start looking for something different god-knows-what. Commented Jun 19, 2021 at 15:01
  • 1
    @ivan_pozdeev just put it on questions. People don't have problem finding it. If they can't, we could just add it
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 19, 2021 at 17:57
6

Nice question but I am afraid I'm a little confused. Is the Question the problem or the proposal? I honestly think that your last question at the bottom is the most reasonable proposal, kind of a request for automation. But the question/title seems to be the activity that brought you here

I do not think that text-formating is appropriate as shell agnostic because it is too much generic, it could be web, mobile, desktop, UI, design I don't know it doesn't feel descriptive and specific at the same time, it's a huge category (the name, the description looks great).

By the other hand terminal:

A terminal or command-line interface is a text-only interface for interacting with an operating system or a piece of software. A user typically types commands into the terminal to perform specific tasks.

does not tell me much.. is it sed avaiable in PowerShell?, do not forget how useful keywords are I mean if I am looking for specificity I will include them.

I don't see an easy answer:

  • In example, if adding the sed keyword automatically removes every shell tag which includes/support sed by default (or perl I am out of my area) will not be a benefit for the user performing a search like "bash, text-formatting ... regex, whatever"

  • Change the tag name? I think that tag is missing the word terminal but at the same time sed is not tied to just terminals right? You could use it in your program and allow the user to perform actions with a textbox.

I am not sure if that have sense for you but is that your point? most of the people will use sed and perl keywords in the context of a terminal so it is redundant but specific and necessary.

I know this does not add much value to the discussion but that is the point, I cannot confirm nor deny if this is convenient but I see what you are trying to do. Thank you for contributing

5
  • Yeah, text formatting is iffi at best. Text processing on the other hand... :)
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 11:49
  • You are totally right, it sounds good
    – Karmavil
    Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 11:50
  • However, I'm still not sure about removing terminal. I know the question is about bash, shell, etc., but those are keywords that avoid the bottleneck that separates people who understand the underlying problem and semantics from those who are new to programming or are not very good with the language
    – Karmavil
    Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 12:01
  • We shouldn't really rely on tags to be a proxy of how much an asker knows about the topic. If you find a tag that has nothing to do with the issue in the question, just remove it.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 12:11
  • That is exactly the point. Over the years I have used regular expressions but a few months ago I had to use sed (first time) and it was great. But all this years I didn't need it. So there are this scenarios: you can "follow" specific tags as a helper to filter what you are looking for, but more generic tags could open your mind to do things different or use new tools. So good luck with this discussion :D
    – Karmavil
    Commented Jun 17, 2021 at 12:22
1

We could decide that questions like this are off-topic for Stack Overflow, and should be asked on Unix.SE with the [text-processing] tag.

A question like "I have this Unix text processing problem, but I don't know which tool to pick from the Unix command-line toolbox" doesn't lend itself well to any existing tag on SO, and one can argue that it's kind of a "work order", especially if there isn't an example implementation that someone's trying to clean up / streamline.

To be fair, we already have the [regex] tag where people who enjoy regexing basically solve one-off custom requests like this, despite their low future applicability. At least they serve as good examples of how to use various features of tools, and sometimes of neat tricks.

The major downside of this option is closing (or migrating if in good shape otherwise) every new question on SO in this category. It's not one of the vote-to-migrate site options, and closing isn't great for people asking the questions.

(Of course, questions that don't clearly define the problem or otherwise wouldn't be good questions even on unix.SE should be closed, not migrated. But probably most questions will get closed not migrated anyway: vote-to-migrate to superuser is already an option, but even questions in ok shape typically get closed instead.)

7
  • (I'm in favour of creating a [unix-text-processing] tag on SO to collect these questions, but it seems to me this is the other logical alternative. Trying to treat existing [sed] / [awk] questions as open to answers with any shell-script text-processing tool is likely to not work well, more likely for answers to end up trying to explain how sed works instead of just using awk for something that would be easier in awk.) Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 14:44
  • 2
    I think this proposal needs some more justification. Why would these questions be off-topic for Stack Overflow? We don't declare questions to be off-topic here simply because there is another site that might accept them. Some overlap between scope of the different SE sites is natural and unavoidable. Topicality isn't determined by "where else can this go?", it is determined by, "does it fit within this site's scope". I think shell scripting certainly does fit within SO's scope.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jun 19, 2021 at 4:53
  • 2
    @CodyGray "I have this Unix text processing problem, but I don't know which tool to pick from the Unix command-line toolbox" is standard definition for too broad, unclear, and write my code kind of question. It is simply off-topic for SO.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jun 19, 2021 at 9:17
  • Oh, so only questions where the asker doesn't know what tool they want to use are off-topic? I suppose I can get behind that.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jun 19, 2021 at 11:15
  • @CodyGray: Agreed. When writing a shell script, the various tools like sed and awk are very analogous to the various Python or perl modules available when writing a Python or perl program. Would we close a Python question as off-topic because the asker hasn't already picked a Python module or two for their list-manipulation / looping / data-structure problem? Or which kind of loop they want to use in C++? Of course not. I don't agree with this answer, I just split it off from my other answer as requested, because it's the logical alternative. Commented Jun 19, 2021 at 11:19
  • 1
    I would say that it is possible to have question that is well written, on topic, but the OP is using wrong tool for the job. We allow such questions and answers can offer better approach or tools, unless question specifically states there is some specific reason why some tool, library or whatever cannot be used.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jun 19, 2021 at 11:25
  • 4
    There's a difference between being uncertain as to which Python module to use, versus being uncertain which programming language you want to use. The former is sufficiently narrowly scoped; the latter is not (far, far too broad). I'm not sure which category these questions fall into. Arguably, since it's all the Unix shell ecosystem, all of the tools are available, so it doesn't matter which one is used, just like any Python module can be used when writing Python code. In that case, I don't see how this would be too broad or unclear. Unless, you know, the specific question is.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jun 19, 2021 at 12:27
-3

A generic tag that replaces the specific tags is not useful, and might actually be harmful.


Let me start with:
There is nothing wrong with answering a question with a "different tag" technology, as long as it can be reasonably inferred to be available.

When a question is about using a tool to solve a problem, it is fine to point out the tool is not appropriate/ideal for the problem and offer a different approach. This is not restricted to text-processing – it is the same as proposing a different data type, a different library, a different algorithm, or a different programming paradigm.
In any of such cases, there are two important things of note for this:

  • The question asker does not have to anticipate the solution. They do not have to know their approach is flawed, and that a more generic approach is needed.
  • The question topic and problems do not change. People with a similar issue will still search for the issue, not the answer.

Neither the asker nor the answerer should change the question tag to reflect the solution. Tags exist to categorise questions, not answers.

Just because some questions can/should be answered generically is not a reason to tag them generically. By extension, it is not enough to motivate having a generic tag.

If the problem is formulated using/for a specific tool, then it should be tagged with it.


When people ask an on-topic question on StackOverflow about practical issues like text processing, then they already have a programming problem – meaning they already have committed to a tool. This is not comparable to the situation on, say, Unix.SE, where the text-procssing tag says

Use this tag when your question is about processing text files and you're not sure which tool to use.

Selecting a tool in the context of text processing is the absolute basis to even having a programming problem, and basic research should turn up candidates for tasks that can be solved by ", , or other standard tools". If a question asker is not sure which tool to use*, then there is an extremely high chance the question is off-topic.

There should not be tags that endorse asking off-topic questions.

* Even if what they are sure about turns out to be wrong.


Now, of course there are going to be some questions tagged , or , or any other tag, when these tags are not appropriate to the specific question. They might be tagged too broadly, or too tightly, or with unrelated tags.

Problem is: If people are mishandling tags, then more tags is not going to fix that.

People use the wrong tags because they do not know better tags exist, or they do not know tag wikis exist, or they just do not care. Adding a "more correct" tag will not let them know that tag exists, it will not let them know what is written in tag wikis, it will not make them care. It will just add another tag that can be used wrong.

When folks are having an issue piping things through sed in bash on linux, then is just much more obvious to use than .


As some comments and answers to this question argue, there is a hint of using such a tag to quarantine the trash, so to speak.

That is not the point of tags. If the kind of trash is okay, then it is okay in any tag. If the kind of trash is not okay, then it should not be declared okay-but-only-over-there. If there is a significant issue with trash that should not exist in the first place, we need to talk about that, darling. Not apply a bandaid.

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  • Nah, this is counter-productive. There is a concrete problem at hand, there is also a super easy way to resolve it for good, and you're opposing it by denying the problem's existence. Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 13:30
  • @oguzismail I don't think I did, but please feel free to clarify what problem you think I denied exists. Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 13:50
  • "A generic tag that replaces the specific tags is not needed" what specific tag would be this replacing?
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 14:25
  • 2
    Are you trying to railroad people writing shell scripts into having already picked on tool from the toolbox? The thing they're actually programming is a shell script. If your real argument is that if that's what you're doing, and you haven't picked a tool yet, your question is off topic for SO and should be asked on Unix.SE, that's fine, but I think you could state that more clearly. Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 14:39
  • @Braiam "Can we prompt adding these tags at the time of adding any of the text processing tags and leave out the shell specifics completely?" Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 14:41
  • 1
    But you also argue that answering with a different command-line tool can work despite someone already deciding they think they want a sed answer. Is your point there that a [sed] question should already have an attempt using sed? Yes, questions should include an attempt, but tagging [sed] sounds like a recipe for shoehorning the problem into sed even if it would actually be much easier to do in awk. (e.g. because the answers focus on fixing the sed attempt and teaching how sed works.) Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 14:41
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    @PeterCordes RE your first comment: Yes, such questions being off-topic is my point – I do not want to suggest a specific SE as an alternative (similar to how CodeReview isn't always a good target for improvement questions), so I don't see how I could state that more clearly. I felt that "If a question asker is not sure which tool to use*, then there is an extremely high chance the question is off-topic." makes it clear. Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 14:48
  • @PeterCordes RE your second comment: If someone explicitly says in their question they want a sed answer, then no specific or generic tag is going to change that. If the question is tagged [sed], that doesn't mean they need a sed answer no matter what. As a comparison, in the python we often have people use and tag the threading library when they actually need the multiprocessing library instead. [1/2] Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 14:52
  • [2/2] And in such cases, there is no issue with an answer pointing out why the other library should be used instead and how to do it. So if the issue is that there is a feeling that "[sed] tag requires sed answers", then that's a very different policy at least compared to the tags I frequent. I would much rather see a consensus on which policy is proper before modifying/creating tags. Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 14:54
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    My point is that some answerers are probably going to treat it that way (or lean that direction a bit) based on the [sed] tag in the question, rather than just a generic tag with a sed attempt. Even without any positive statement that it has to be with sed. I might be wrong, of course, but that's my best guess. Of course not everyone will treat it that way. I don't follow the tag myself so possibly my concern is misplaced, and it's not a problem in practice. (I think having questions like this tagged [sed] or [awk] is the current situation.) Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 14:55
  • @PeterCordes Yes, I know there are people interpreting tags as such. But I'd rather have a Meta Q&A that documents consensus on whether question tags are binding for the answer, or whether reasonably close equivalents can be used. Otherwise, we need a lot of such generic tags. Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 15:00
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    That general text processing questions are tagged with bash, zsh, ksh, sh, shell, etc. is the problem. You're saying it's not, that's what I understand from your answer. RE one of your comments above, both threading and multiprocessing are python libraries; sed and awk on the other hand, are different programming languages. You're comparing apples to oranges there. Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 15:26
  • @oguzismail I am challenging the proposed solution, not the problem. But yes, I see that I should add something to the shell issue itself (the question might need clarification as well, by the way - it's not entirely obvious whether it is about replacing the shell tags or the awk/sed/perl/... tags or both with the generic tag). Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 15:31
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    No, no. What we're saying here is, a question that is about sed, and a question that can be answered with a sed answer (i.e a text processing question) should be distinguishable; none of those programs always quack like a library whatever that means, hence the proposal for the super tag. Now if you're saying the latter is too broad for SO, yeah, that's something I can agree with. Commented Jun 18, 2021 at 19:12
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    This answer makes me wonder why we allow more than one tag on a question? The reality is that some things are complicated. By design, there are multiple tools on multiple platforms which do overlapping things. Overtagging isn't the solution. If refining the tagging system has improved matters on another similar site, then it bears consideration here.
    – Mockman
    Commented Jun 19, 2021 at 12:05

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