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I seem to remember not so long ago (within the past year or two) the Reopen Votes queue would generally stay in 3 digits, generally hovering somewhere between 500-900 items. These days, it's been consistently well over 1000 items for months, and it's currently sitting at 2283 items. Posts are getting deleted by the Roomba before they're reviewed, and even when they are getting reviewed it can take well over a week. This is making it difficult to assure people that improvements to their closed question will be reviewed for reopening, because there's a non-zero chance that they won't.

Is my memory correct here? If so, what caused this increase? Can anything be done about it?

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    3 close votes increased number of closed questions and apparently there is also an army of people doing irrelevant edits on unsalvageable questions (probably coming from triage). This is also why suggested edits queue is almost full all the time. May 11, 2021 at 6:37
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    @DalijaPrasnikar Those points are definitely both true (and the irrelevant edits are especially frustrating), but the reopen queue was staying in 3 digits even well into three-vote closure (I've only had close privileges since that change).
    – Ryan M Mod
    May 11, 2021 at 6:38
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    "Is my memory correct here?" I remember the same. Btw. the data explorer contains the number of reviews done. Query Neither the number of close nor the number of reopen reviews has changed considerably in the last time. It must have been a slow buildup and maybe emphasis should be shifted from close to reopen reviews somewhat. May 11, 2021 at 10:03
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    @Trilarion That's close/reopen votes, not reviews: quite a lot of reopen reviews don't result in a reopen vote (also true of some close reviews, but probably fewer).
    – Ryan M Mod
    May 11, 2021 at 10:06
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    Is there a way to see what activity is occurring in the review queues since the onboarding change compared to before?
    – Kevin B
    May 11, 2021 at 14:22
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    Because I stopped reviewing reopen to the limit almost every day due to the disrespect of not fixing audit and the fiasco of 2019.
    – Joshua
    May 11, 2021 at 15:05
  • @Joshua uh 2019 is in the before times, that feels like a hundred years ago. What is the fiasco of 2019?
    – Gimby
    May 11, 2021 at 15:15
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    Maybe it's time to decrease the number of reopen votes needed to reopen to 2. It's not like there's an epidemic of frivolously reopened questions. May 11, 2021 at 17:01
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    @IanCampbell I beg to differ, I have seen plenty of totally off topic questions that not only got 2 reopen votes but have been reopened. 3 is low enough. It is useless edits that are the problem, not the reopen queue itself. May 11, 2021 at 17:43
  • @RyanM can't find the related meta post, but there was some recent event "let's burn down the close review queue!", that added a lot of closed questions, and the reopen increase would be an expected consequence.
    – Pac0
    May 11, 2021 at 18:48
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    @Gimby "What is the fiasco of 2019?" You can read all about in on meta.stackexchange (just sort Q&A by votes and start reading at the most downvoted ones). Basically the company was on a strange trip in 2019 sort of trying to actively destroy the meta community. Reading the comment by Joshua you could say it has repercussions until today. May 12, 2021 at 8:29
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    The reopen queue has long been a trainwreck. When it was suggested to automatically reopen questions upon an edit I suggested improvements to the queue, as did many others. Nothing, including automatic reopening (I hope) has ever been implemented thus far.
    – Adriaan
    May 12, 2021 at 19:35
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    @Adriaan FWIW they recently seem to attempt to do something about reopen queue, see Changing the question reopening experience
    – gnat
    Jul 9, 2021 at 11:31

1 Answer 1

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I'm not sure if that's THE reason, but the vast majority of what I see in the Reopen queue are trivial edits.

But this should probably not come as a surprise, because we literally ask posters to edit their question. The banner on top of the closed question — visible by the OP — reads:

[close reason]. You can edit the question.

The guideline also explicitly asks posters to edit their questions while a question ban elapses.

So... they are complying.

However I'm going to guess that the majority of askers who have their question closed don't know how to comply. They are asked to edit their question and they do so, by slightly changing the wording of their post, in the hope that those pesky pedantic folks who do content curation will embrace their goodwill.

The weak link in this process is that someone who, for whatever reason, doesn't follow the recommendation when asking in the first place, will probably not follow the recommendation when editing later.

Additionally, I think the First Post queue interacts in a way that is not ideal.

  1. The First Posts queue is available to users with 500 reputation.
  2. Those users don't have the privilege to apply edits immediately. That comes at 2000 reputation.
  3. The queue encourages edits. In a gamification perspective, the edit is the best possible action because it progresses toward the badges and, on approval, it might give a yummy +2 points.
  4. The reviewer finds some minor issues with the post. They edit. The edit is then pushed to the Suggested Edits queue, where it will sit for an unspecified amount of time.
  5. The post gets closed in the meantime due to being unsalvageable (remember that the First Post suggested edit isn't approved yet).
  6. The Suggested Edit is eventually approved, and the post is pushed into the Reopen queue.

So all these actions are not problematic, if taken alone, but some possible sequences might end up in just a waste of everyone's time. (Maybe it should be put more emphasis in discouraging trivial edits, but as of today if something gets approved even by chance or permissive reviewers, it nets +2, so why not just try it...).

I'm not saying that this is how everyone reviews First Posts. It's just an unwanted sequence of actions that is possible with the current system.

So these might be two causes of a long Reopen queue.

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    That surely describes a problem, but it's not new. It wouldn't explain an increase in the queue length unless you'd argue about things like reviewing fatigue ... May 11, 2021 at 10:05
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    "are trivial edits." ... please don't tell me i have to man the suggested edit queue again, I've already been called out once for having an "oddly high rejection rate" May 11, 2021 at 18:26
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    I'm slowly going mad reviewing in suggested edits. So many trivial edits which I don't know whether to reject or to approve. I reject some of them, and others I skip, but I don't want a rejection of mine being called out on meta.
    – 10 Rep
    May 11, 2021 at 18:28
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    @10Rep oh it's not so bad... As long as you can justify the rejection or if the edit really is trivial you'll be on the winning side... Been there done that :p May 11, 2021 at 18:30
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    There seems to be an easy solution to the latter problem: if a question gets closed between an edit being suggested and being approved, that edit shouldn't put the post back into the reopen queue. I wonder why we haven't just done that. May 12, 2021 at 2:26
  • Perhaps some disincentive could be added for bad or rejected edits? This might offset the +2 rep, although it could also have the problematic effect of stopping people submitting good edits...
    – Minion3665
    May 12, 2021 at 10:32
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    @Minion3665 Simply stop giving +2 for trivial edits. That should do the trick. May 12, 2021 at 10:34
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    @JosephSible-ReinstateMonica Because that would make complete sense, and Stack Exchange Inc. ain't about that kind of lifestyle.
    – Ian Kemp
    May 12, 2021 at 17:01
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    @Trilarion I don't think that's a good solution. A few grammar corrections may be considered trivial by some, but the edit wiki suggests fixing grammar and helping a post be more readable. If anything, my interpretation of the +2 rep for edits is to encourage new-ish users to get their feet wet with edits. Small edits are the easiest way to start, the rep nudges them forward toward learning how to better help the community (including better editing). The reputation points gives them the feeling of investment in the site, which makes them want to put in more effort. It had that effect on me.
    – wxz
    May 12, 2021 at 17:17
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    I like @JosephSible-ReinstateMonica's idea though. Only if the edit is enough to correct the closure reason should it be put back in the reopen queue.
    – wxz
    May 12, 2021 at 17:18
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    The problem with "trivial" is who, or what, determines what is trivial or not. ML is out because SE Inc. is cheap, so the only option is yet another layer of voting and yet another queue for consensus on what constitutes "trivial"... yeah, nah. I stand by my opinion that the only person who can fix a closed question is the asker themselves, and therefore any edit not by the asker should essentially be ignored by the system.
    – Ian Kemp
    May 12, 2021 at 17:33
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    Anyway, I just had a look at the reopen queue and it's unmitigated garbage, as expected. Perhaps we can just add a button to that queue called "Unmitigated Garbage" that's only available to people who have done 1,000+ reviews there, and when pressed it deletes that question and the user account of whoever's unmitigated garbage edit caused that question to end up in that queue.
    – Ian Kemp
    May 12, 2021 at 17:40
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    @IanKemp I whole heartily agree that only edits by the author should push edit in the reopen queue. Yes, there are trivial edits made by authors to unsalvageable questions, but number of those made by others is probably greater. If there are some edits made by experienced users that can really make question on topic, then they usually have enough reputation to explicitly cast reopen vote. May 13, 2021 at 8:19

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