201

Why did the fonts change? I see Segoe UI and Cascadia for code, but Cascadia mono looks really bad to me (W10E, Firefox, 90%, 75pi screen).

Why the change? Can I revert just for me?

40
  • 25
    With a userscript you can revert: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/364268/…
    – rene
    May 10, 2021 at 18:01
  • 29
    And here is the cross-site duplicate for the why: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/364048/…
    – rene
    May 10, 2021 at 18:01
  • 52
    @rene Thank god someone made this - the new fonts are truly horrible
    – leonheess
    May 10, 2021 at 18:04
  • 26
    I actually think it's slightly harder to read, at least the way it's rendered for me.
    – akuzminykh
    May 10, 2021 at 18:11
  • 51
    this is actually painful to read
    – Kevin B
    May 10, 2021 at 18:43
  • 12
    The difference between mrn as in m ( em ) and rn (arr en) The difference between Il as in I (eye) and l (ell) The difference between 0O O (oh) and 0 (zero) The word pom porn should not look the same. dahe, d and h should have a tall masts relative to a and e. The brain draws a flat line over the tops of the letters, so tall letters should stick out. There should be at least 1 pixel of whitespace between ff ll I'll and ill should be obviously different. o0O should be obviously different.Capital (eye) I should be taller than lower case (ell) l as in Il. New font fails on each count. May 10, 2021 at 19:42
  • 8
    I'm mystified as to how this much effort is put into changing fonts, when the l and I chars remain like this
    – mjr
    May 10, 2021 at 19:43
  • 6
    Most of these actually don't look bad in Ubuntu, @EricLeschinski , but the kerning for rn is still bad. I would actually say that the inconsistency between the fonts is not a good thing.
    – Thom A
    May 10, 2021 at 20:07
  • 4
    I like it, don't change it back. Sometimes newer cheese tastes better.
    – mxmissile
    May 10, 2021 at 21:08
  • 7
    @stuartd that may be the case, though, it is at least better than sergio ui.
    – Kevin B
    May 10, 2021 at 21:25
  • 6
    IMHO it's an improvement on my Linux Mint and OSX devices. All the examples @EricLeschinski posted above look exactly as they should to me. May 11, 2021 at 6:38
  • 19
    It's quite hard to know if people are complaining about the same thing without screenshots. One person could have a text rendering issue, one person could have a missing font and another might just not like the font. It would be helpful to be able to rule out other issues so we know we're on the same page.
    – Weeble
    May 11, 2021 at 10:09
  • 15
    Over here on Windows this looks disgusting to my eyes at least May 11, 2021 at 13:30
  • 9
    Gah, the text is actually smaller than any other site (on Windows). Even worse in the notifications... I'm sitting about 2ft away from my 49" ultrawide and I might need to zoom for SO (and only for SO)... WTF? SO Google (for comparison) May 11, 2021 at 15:34
  • 5
    Simply looks horrible on Windows. Stack Overflow seems to have overlooked that some people seriously disliked SegoeUI and wanted to replace with the normal Tahoma (including myself). I even landed on SO after a Google search and took quite a bit of time to realize that I was seeing SO instead of some other forum copying SO, because of the funky fonts it has now.
    – Alejandro
    May 12, 2021 at 14:47

7 Answers 7

83

Why?

As Aaron puts it on the announcement post We are switching to system fonts on May 10, 2021:

... [O]ur original font stack used Arial across macOS, iOS, and Windows. Arial was first created in 1982, and has served the web well for decades. But technology moves on. Modern system typefaces look better on both new high DPI screens, and old screens alike. Apple’s San Francisco and Microsoft’s Segoe both look great on retina displays, have more expressive weights, and improve readability across all contexts. With more weights, we can have better hierarchy.

I've no idea what the above all means but it is impressive and backed by no less than Github.

In some answers on the announcement post as well as in Custom Fonts User Script: Revert or Improve the Font Updates you'll find both userscripts and/or userstyles to undo the cheese move.

Some wonder in the comments when IF was invented and when we will get rid of that. IF was part of Lisp and Algol which dates backs to 1958. I assume IF will be abolished in the next 6 to 8 weeks.

35
  • 25
    The reasoning is that it looks better on modern screens, and that arial is for older boomer screens. But that's not really the case, because new displays with new video cards are still making it unreadable.
    – 10 Rep
    May 10, 2021 at 18:54
  • 22
    Honestly, I kinda like the new font. It looks nice.
    – IceBotYT
    May 10, 2021 at 18:55
  • 94
    I wonder when the if-statement was invented. Maybe we should get rid of that too..
    – Scratte
    May 10, 2021 at 19:43
  • 15
    The only thing this new font does well is make clearer the difference between rnicrosoft and microsoft :)
    – 10 Rep
    May 10, 2021 at 19:56
  • 9
    Not for some of us, @10Rep . The font is OS dependant, and Ubuntu (the font) still has kerning (keming) issues. Fortunately most users aren't on Linux, so hopefully I'll stop being called "Lamu" now... I can dream, right? :)
    – Thom A
    May 10, 2021 at 20:03
  • 2
    @Larnu the r and n in your name are slightly easier to tell apart. for what it's worth. But many people seem to be against the font change, so it might not last long :).
    – 10 Rep
    May 10, 2021 at 20:07
  • 3
    yeah, i mean, i had to read that comrnent twice before i realized the difference
    – Kevin B
    May 10, 2021 at 20:08
  • 3
    "so it might not last long" I think this might be one we have to live with @10Rep ; like question upvotes being worth 10 rep instead of 5.
    – Thom A
    May 10, 2021 at 20:09
  • 11
    I suspect the real reason why is this is the most they could get done in a single sprint. May 10, 2021 at 20:14
  • 3
    Along with the if statement, we should also abolish the return statement in programming languages. I mean, come on, returning text? That's SO 1980's!
    – 10 Rep
    May 10, 2021 at 20:40
  • 3
    What? People still code? That's so old school. I thought we were beyond that.
    – 0-1
    May 10, 2021 at 20:43
  • 3
    As a linux user using the system fonts is great, the distro I use switched over to Inter and everything is nice and clean :)
    – GammaGames
    May 10, 2021 at 21:10
  • 3
    @10 Rep: Why would video cards have anything to do with this? An RTX 3090 is going to render ClearType the same way onboard graphics from the mid-2000s or Intel's integrated graphics would. This is just about screens with high or normal resolutions.
    – BoltClock
    May 11, 2021 at 6:14
  • 7
    Why not just honor the user's setting for the default font in the browser?
    – user330315
    May 12, 2021 at 6:56
  • 6
    "I've no idea what the above all means" It means Aaron doesn't like Arial, basically. It all revolves around the opinion-based phrase "look better".
    – TylerH
    May 12, 2021 at 16:33
34

I don't care.

I'm usually one for piling on anything SO does that I don't like, but this just seems so trivial. I understand every change is going to bother someone, but this one's a big "meh" for me.

If any other passer-by feels the same, they can leave their upvotes (or downvotes) here.

9
  • 9
    Normally I wouldn't care. I didn't care too much about the line height change (my only problem was the new code box ui). But IDK which OS you are using, but Segoe UI is literally the hardest font to read (at least for me).
    – 10 Rep
    May 11, 2021 at 3:39
  • 64
    Didn’t ask. May 11, 2021 at 5:35
  • Take a page from rick and morty episode: pickle-rick in therapy, where he says: "I'm a scientist, when I don't like something about the world, I change it". May 11, 2021 at 13:03
  • 10
    How do you mean, "Didn't ask"? There's a question at the top of the page. May 12, 2021 at 6:34
  • 6
    I think it looks better now for what it's worth.
    – Kami Kaze
    May 12, 2021 at 7:33
  • 4
    You're totally right. This is so trivial and complaining about this seems quite pedantic, I for one didn't even notice the change.
    – Marius
    May 12, 2021 at 14:11
  • 1
    I think it's great some of you don't experience headaches when reading the new font. That doesn't however improve my situation.
    – Kevin B
    May 13, 2021 at 14:43
  • 2
    Wanted to throw in that tuning ClearType on Windows measurably improved the look and readability of fonts on SE for me on my machine after the font change. If anyone is having trouble and hasn't tried this yet (and doesn't have CrearType disabled intentionally), you should give it a try.
    – zcoop98
    May 13, 2021 at 15:26
  • @zcoop98 zero effect unfortunately.
    – Kevin B
    May 13, 2021 at 15:34
25

I could revert thanks to this script js for Greasemonkey (on firefox) or Tampermonkey (on Chrome):

I think also that instead of any Cascadia Mono, they meant Cascadia Code Light or so, which is IMHO a lot more appropriate because of its ligatures and readability (try those with each):

iI 1 lL  oO0  rn m  __global__ <= --> <==

(from https://stackapps.com/questions/8932/custom-fonts-user-script-revert-or-improve-the-font-updates)

7
  • 2
    Awesome! Whew, could not focus with those fonts. First link worked great on FF for Linux!
    – Parfait
    May 11, 2021 at 1:57
  • 2
    Thanks! This saved script saved me. For reference, here is a comparison of the fonts on my machine (Ubuntu 21.04, Google Chrome). I strongly prefer the "Before font change" example May 11, 2021 at 8:45
  • 2
    Honest question: Do you write rewrite website styles for all websites or just Stack Overflow?
    – Hynes
    May 11, 2021 at 14:00
  • @Hynes probably best to ask the person who wrote it (see the stackapps link at bottom)
    – Kevin B
    May 11, 2021 at 20:05
  • @Hynes if you look at the script, it works on the websites matching one the expressions.
    – Soleil
    May 11, 2021 at 20:10
  • 1
    Thank you @Soleil You saved my day. I hated the new fonts. May 15, 2021 at 13:52
  • Oh wow, thank God they did not actually use Cascadia Code Light. Font ligatures for programming? That's just a nightmare for my eyes. Dec 13, 2021 at 20:47
24

Not trying to be insulting, I thought my rendering had gone wrong, that I needed to check a setting somewhere in my OS.

I wasn't thinking about wether I liked it or not, I actually thought something was broken, it looks very sharp, jagged (sorry, not a designer, dont know the proper terms) and found it harder to read. And I'm working on a Mac, which often shows font nice.

Knowing it was intended is a little relieve, guess I'll give it a go, see if I get used to it. But I've been taught to keep an eye out for a first feeling when there is a design change :)

13
  • It's new Copyrighted font-set issues and regressions. You have to say what version of browser you're using, what version of Apple OS (if it's more than 18 months old you have to buy a new one with the fonts, because you know how it goes it's earnings season). Yet another variable is monitor settings like tint, gaussian and other pixel rendering steps. There are settings like noise, gamma, sharpness, contrast, color. For me the problem bringing me here was copyrighted font sets on Linux Chrome. Work-around now is tampermonkey and forcing a different font set that's compatible with Linux. May 11, 2021 at 10:25
  • 1
    It's a modern Macbook, using up to date firefox. About everything else is left standard as I care little about all those things, I just need it to program :)
    – Martijn
    May 11, 2021 at 10:49
  • You're in luck, there's like 90 billion lines of code to program and reprogram, between the keystrokes on your keyboard and pixels on your monitor. May 11, 2021 at 11:37
  • 6
    Given your description it’s likely that something on your system is broken, since the new font should render absolutely crisp and smooth without any issues whatsoever (nothing “sharp” or “jagged”) on a current Mac. May 11, 2021 at 12:22
  • 1
    Topics and comments are fine (now), it was mainly the 'hot questions' parts. Again, it could be the getting used to part as it already reads easier, but I felt broken the first time I checked. Could be because it's a very thin font.
    – Martijn
    May 11, 2021 at 12:52
  • @EricLeschinski If you don't have the "copyrighted font sets" it eventually falls back to sans-serif, which is the sans serif font you can choose yourself in your browser settings. So if that's bad, it's your own damn fault; don't go blaming others. May 12, 2021 at 1:12
  • I disagree, its the designers responsibility to choose a font that is reasonable available :)
    – Martijn
    May 12, 2021 at 7:15
  • 3
    I actually think this is an improvement on macOS. The new fonts are better readable, "m" and "rn" no longer look the same. I just tested Firefox, and it looks the same there as in Safari. You might want to try to clear your cache. May 13, 2021 at 14:36
  • 1
    @EricLeschinski macOS upgrades are free. You don't "buy new ones". That's Windows. The font used comes with all versions of macOS and iOS since 2015, so the only reason not to have it is not having upgraded the OS in 6 years, which would mean you're running an OS that is no longer supported and gets no security patches. May 13, 2021 at 14:44
  • @CrisLuengo Many of us are open-source developers trying to maintain alternatives to these paid-systems you refer to, that are depreciated, sunsetted, then as last resort obfuscated then force-obsoleted on a schedule [I can point you to the court cases], so that stuff stops working, and when they do, as 300 thousand of you noted on May 10. A fraction of you spend thousands on a new rig, to fix the problem right now without any coding skill. Font sets and the 900 billion lines of copyrighted code there is a landfill fire, and I will complain about it until our star inflates to a red giant. May 13, 2021 at 15:00
  • @EricLeschinski I agree with you on planned obsolescence. But I don't know what your beef with copyright is. If copyright didn't exist, we wouldn't have so much open-source software. I certainly would keep all my sources secret if there were no copyright. Copyright is a very good thing. May 13, 2021 at 15:40
  • @CrisLuengo Can copyright be used as a mechanism to create money without creating intellectual property? youtube.com/watch?v=Tamoj84j64I May 13, 2021 at 16:39
  • Thought I was crazy. Just took a vaccine shot and got some pretty bad fever. Thought my vision went bad :D But I agree this feels too sharp to me, and prefer the old font so far.
    – Ranoiaetep
    May 14, 2021 at 20:11
5

Reposting my userstyle from the meta SE question:

This should fix both sans-serif and monospace. It also fixes hardcoded fonts within textareas and codeblocks that don't use the font variables for some reason. This should work in both Stylus (tested) and Stylish (untested).

@-moz-document domain("stackoverflow.com"), domain("stackexchange.com"), domain("askubuntu.com"), domain("superuser.com"), domain("serverfault.com"), domain("stackapps.com"),
domain("mathoverflow.net") {
body {
    --ff-sans: Arial, "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, sans-serif;
    --ff-mono: Consolas, Menlo, Monaco, Lucida Console, Liberation Mono, DejaVu Sans Mono, Bitstream Vera Sans Mono, Courier New, monospace, sans-serif;
}

code, .s-prose code, pre.s-code-block, textarea.wmd-input, textarea#wmd-input, .full-diff .content {
    font-family: var(--ff-mono);
}

.top-bar, .topbar-dialog, #user-menu, .topbar-dialog .header h3 a, .topbar-dialog .pinned-site-editor-container .remove-pinned-site-link a, .topbar-dialog .modal-content .message-text h4 {
    font-family: var(--ff-sans) !important;
}
}

(https://gist.github.com/SuperStormer/60a5e5c7e9549e9ed865a579df6f11be)

5
3

There is a Chrome extension that can help users customize code fonts. The earliest it was used to fix translation problems, but I found that another feature of it can also be used to customize code fonts. I hope it will be helpful to those who are keen to improve fonts.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/fix-translation/nefkkabmejdacaifhjoinegmoggdbgee

2

Chrome Extension

I have a custom-tailored Chrome extension to bring back the old fonts:

GET THE CHROME EXTENSION

  • Reverts text fonts to Arial and code fonts to Consolas
  • ... other customizable settings
    • turn off everything else if you only need to revert the fonts

This was originally developed to revert the formatting changes (specifically the line height change) introduced in August 2020, but has since been extended to support other revertable changes as well.

enter image description here

I added the option to revert fonts back in May, but didn't get around being lazy till now and finally decided to post this. Hopefully people are still searching for easy solutions to the new fonts 😅

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