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This code golf question survived due not having the code golf tag. In its 10 years of existence it managed to accrue a whooping ~4k views and very sagacious answers that... are frankly crap. There's nothing of value to keep, and it's best just kept six feet under.

While I was writing this question, for my dismay, a moderator locked it for "historical significance". Yes, it's historically significant in the sense of how hard the trek was to actually define the bounds of what makes a useful library of high quality programming question, aka not these kind of questions.

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  • 2
    No, we must keep all questions, good and bad
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 1, 2021 at 20:08
  • 9
    Doesn't the historical lock exist specifically for questions that should not be replicated today but which also aren't doing any active harm to the site? The linked question seems to fit perfectly in this category. Call me optimistic, but I don't think we're in danger of attracting an influx of "Code Bowling" questions by keeping this one around under the history lock.
    – zcoop98
    Commented Apr 1, 2021 at 21:00
  • 3
    I mean, ever since the historic lock was abused to prevent deletion of a recent question that wasn't at all historic but was 100% off topic, kinda feel like that lock has lost it's purpose.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 1, 2021 at 21:38
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    In other words... What historic significance does this code golf question hold? Is anything using it as a reference? Are people still finding it useful 10 years later?
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 1, 2021 at 21:41
  • 4
    Was it really "useful" 10 years ago? or just fun/interesting?
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 1, 2021 at 21:49
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    @KevinB A historical lock exists to preserve something that was useful back then, but is now no longer useful. So the real question is whether or not it was useful, which I would argue not.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Apr 1, 2021 at 22:45
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    There's nothing of real value here, so naturally people are going to defend it anyway. Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 0:51
  • @zcoop98 "also aren't doing any active harm to the site" you must to really dig up that reference. Historical locks were meant for stellar content that we just don't have a place to move them to. In fact, most "historical locked" questions should just go once that content is elsewhere.. You might want to go through the rabbit hole of linked questions for that one.
    – Braiam
    Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 1:40
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    Does anyone have a backup of the quesiton for those who didn't have the luck to see it ? :(
    – Ivan
    Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 8:00
  • @10Rep Reading your comment more carefully, why should we keep content that is no longer useful?
    – Braiam
    Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 10:57
  • @Ivan Here's the screencap I took, it's just the question though.
    – zcoop98
    Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 14:52
  • @Braiam You're completely right, and I did recant that in my answer below. The history lock isn't really about harm or lack thereof at all.
    – zcoop98
    Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 14:56
  • @zcoop98 thanks, it looks as a cool idea :,(
    – Ivan
    Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 15:14
  • @Braiam because the historical lock exists to preserve anything. I'm not a fan of deleting it, but it does have to go now that I have to think about it.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 16:30

2 Answers 2

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Yeah - it was me that locked that post - I'm one of those "preserve content if one can" kind of mods, I'll put my paws up and say a historical lock wasn't the best of ideas - for some reason I must have read 4k as 400k views - we all have the occasional proverbial brain burp as it were, right?

I've unlocked the post and deleted it.

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  • 1
    do you have a copy? I can't see it anymore :(
    – Ivan
    Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 7:52
  • not really @Ivan - the OP might be able to provide one though...
    – Jon Clements Mod
    Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 7:59
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    I don't understand why it was seen to be harmful.
    – Scratte
    Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 8:40
  • @JonClements I too misread the views; I think I saw 40k when I looked at it yesterday.
    – TylerH
    Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 19:44
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    @Scratte My guess is not really that someone considered it 'harmful', so much as 'of zero use'. Content on the site has to pass a higher barrier than "not harmful" to remain, especially if it's off-topic.
    – TylerH
    Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 19:45
  • @TylerH Except lots of nice techniques were used in that post. It was useful to me. It also had quite a lot of bookmarks to it.
    – Scratte
    Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 19:45
  • @Scratte I am not speaking to the quality of the post but to the arguments of others.
    – TylerH
    Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 19:46
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First off– I rather like having these sorts of questions around. I commented above in defense of the lock (before digging into this). The occasional "fun" question adds some flare and character to our humble corner of the internet, and it's rather nice to come across the occasional post that makes me crack a smile. Especially so when talking about posts from way back when, from before SO was the juggernaut that it is today, when it was a platform which could afford to allow a little more fun because there wasn't a hoard of off-topic posts flooding the platform on a daily basis.

That said, by the book... things aren't really in favor of keeping this one around.

Argument #1: It's not on topic

From the "What types of questions should I avoid asking?" Help Center page (emphasis mine):

You should only ask practical, answerable questions based on actual problems that you face. Chatty, open-ended questions diminish the usefulness of our site and push other questions off the front page. [. . .]

If your motivation for asking the question is “I would like to participate in a discussion about ______”, then you should not be asking here...

This question isn't clearly based on any "actual" problem, since "Code Bowling" isn't a strategy that has any real world merit (at least that I can think of, correct me if I'm wrong here). It's really open-ended, asking for solutions from any language of the answerer's choice, and reads like it was created from a "I would like to participate in a discussion" stand point, which is explicitly discouraged.

So this question is firmly off-topic, fine. But the historical lock saves it, right?

Argument #2: It shouldn't have been historically locked

I personally hadn't seen them before this, but we have specific, defined criteria for when Historical Locks should be utilized on posts. These rules are defined in the Meta SE FAQ post "What is a historical lock, and what is it used for?":

Questions can be historically locked when:

  1. The post does not meet the current guidelines for a good, on-topic question, and

  2. The post is stellar, in spite of its off-topic nature, and

  3. There are a large number of views, upvotes and inbound links on the post, and

  4. The post is contentious; e.g., it has been closed and reopened at least once, or deleted and undeleted at least once.

When held up to those points, the post in question (image for future reference) fairs pretty poorly. Is it off-topic? Yes. But is it something anyone would call "stellar"? Do its 4,000 views and 37 upvotes (and 35 score) register as "a large number"? I think no is a fairly reasonable answer to both of these.

The fourth bullet says that historical lock contenders must be contentious. Via the post's timeline, it has never once, in its over 10 year history, been closed or deleted. That doesn't sound very contentious to me.

There's one other possible saving grace for a post like this described in the Meta FAQ:

Questions should not be historically locked if they are being actively maintained or have little or no redeeming value.

A good rule of thumb: If the question does not minimally meet site co-founder Jeff Atwood's third rule in the "We Hate Fun Here" blog post, it's probably not a good candidate for historical locking. The third rule is:

Does this question teach me anything that could make me better at my job? Can I learn something from it?

While I'm not sure I'd go as far as saying that the post has "little or no redeeming value," I do think it's worth asking the question– Does this post teach us anything that could make a reader a better programmer?

I mean... there's "interesting" code in some of the answers. One could study those techniques I suppose. But on the whole, the question and answers together unfortunately appear to fall short of even this basic criterion as well.

So... we hate fun?

...Kinda? I think the case against this one is pretty clear. I still don't like losing these sorts of questions to the hidden world of deleted posts; it feels a little like we're losing a bit of the old character of SO when we cast off posts that are quite literally from a different time in SO's history. But there's also a lot of truth to the idea that this specific post is pretty insignificant on its own. It's a little silly, and arguably doesn't add anything to our knowledge base.

On the other hand, I'm gonna guess that we don't have a lot of these types of posts from a decade ago hanging around still; I imagine we'll run out of posts of this era to lock at some point, probably sooner rather than later. I also think it's hard to argue that this post is actually causing harm in any sort of meaningful way, even if it's not significant enough for the official "historical lock" designation.

At the end of the day, this one should probably go, especially with it not being anything particularly novel or exciting.

Besides, we still have some other amusing and interesting items hanging around. You just have to do a little digging.

Addendum: Here's a SEDE query I pulled together that lists every post with an Historical Lock on the given SE site: Currently Historically Locked Posts

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  • I agree with this answer. Since this particular question doesn't meet the requirements for an historical lock, I think it should go. But I'm not too excited to see a question like that go :|
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Apr 1, 2021 at 22:47
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    Fun is irrelevant, that does not mean we hate it. I love fun. It has no place in a knowledge base though, KB's need to be factual, not fun. (actually I am not entirely in agreement with my own statement there because fun does help to absorb dry information better, but it is a can of worms to make it a rule to allow fun as we all have different senses of humor).
    – Gimby
    Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 10:00
  • great examples, noone was talking about python back then :,v
    – Ivan
    Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 15:30
  • @adabsurdum Fun is fine as long as it's useful fun. Here is an example that preserves the joke but presents it in a way that's actually useful to readers. Commented Apr 5, 2021 at 22:06

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