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I notice that this old feature request is tagged as [status-declined]. There is, AFAICT, no comment anywhere from anyone who could be involved in making the decision, explaining why the request was declined. There is also AFAICT from the comments and voting patterns, overwhelming community support for the change (which I just came back with a mind to request again before realizing that of course there's an old duplicate for it). Also AFAICT, it would be incredibly easy to implement the request; any code I can imagine must be going out of its way to make things work the way they actually do, so it's really a request to remove a misfeature.

Why was this request declined? In general, how can I find out why a request was declined? And what can I do to help change the minds of the people responsible?

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    Shog9 added the status declined tag and left an answer. What other reason/comment would you expect?
    – BDL
    Mar 24, 2021 at 0:30
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    Oops, I didn't notice that the answer at -17 was from staff. Mar 24, 2021 at 0:34
  • It's also completely unclear to me why a "close vote aging system" is necessary at all, or why there's a problem if people can "circumvent" it by taking explicit action. Normally people don't even look at questions that are more than a few hours old unless they came up in a search. Mar 24, 2021 at 0:37
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    "Normally people don't even look at questions that are more than a few hours old unless they came up in a search." [citation needed] and what about review queues? Mar 24, 2021 at 6:13
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    Citation: the fact that the first several pages of results at any given time overwhelmingly are recently asked questions, rather than bumps of old questions. As for review queues, aside from when the site randomly decides to annoy me, they are utterly irrelevant to me (and would be undiscoverable without that prompting). Have you, personally, ever voted to close on a question that was more than a few hours old? I don't think I have (unless perhaps I had spent several hours arguing about it), and it's been over 10 years now. Mar 24, 2021 at 10:03
  • I feel like pointing out that 12 of the 15 most recent questions with the [status-declined] tag were downvoted, in one case to -53. That seems kind of ridiculous. Mar 24, 2021 at 10:09
  • @KarlKnechtel How exactly is that ridiculous? It makes much more sense for a declined feature request to be poorly received in general, meaning that the decision to decline it is more aligned with the community's sentiment. What would be more controversial is a feature request with a very high score but declined anyway (follow up story on this example here). Mar 24, 2021 at 10:50
  • It's ridiculous in that it's unnecessary and creates an incredibly unwelcoming atmosphere. When I see it, it makes me not want to participate in meta no matter how good of an idea I think I have - and this lesson keeps getting reinforced when I notice that a) the general piling-on behaviour and b) the way that popular suggestions can linger for years with no action being taken, and become dupe-target graveyards. My point in highlighting that tag isn't to say that declined requests should be well received; it's to point out that I can easily find such evidence of an awful voting culture. Mar 24, 2021 at 10:52
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    You need to keep your cool regarding downvotes. They are not a personal attack, and are far from being unwelcoming. They exist to make a neutral assessment of the post at hand (the voting culture is a bit different on Meta, but the reasoning is similar), so they are pretty important and irreplaceable right now. You seem to suggest that (some or all) users should just restrain their votes under certain circumstances unrelated to the quality or perception of the question or answer. On the contrary, we generally want more votes in the system. Mar 24, 2021 at 10:58
  • Pardon, but you don't get to decide what is or isn't "unwelcoming"; the person who is or isn't being "welcomed" does. That's inherent to the concept itself. Mar 24, 2021 at 10:59
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    "the fact that the first several pages of results at any given time overwhelmingly are recently asked questions, rather than bumps of old questions" so, you think that questions with more than a thousand views got them from the first few hours of being posted? "As for review queues [...] they are utterly irrelevant to me" yet there are many other people other than you. "Have you, personally, ever voted to close on a question that was more than a few hours old?" yep. I occasionally go around and dupe-link old questions that have slipped under the cracks, too. Mar 24, 2021 at 11:47
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    "so, you think that questions with more than a thousand views got them from the first few hours of being posted?" It takes a long time for those views to accumulate; if you look at a graph of views over time I expect the rate to slow down significantly after the initial effort. Mar 24, 2021 at 11:52
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    The vast majority of views to a question come from later visits. From people landing there after searching for a solution, or from the questions being linked as references. Occasionally, also from making it to the HNQ. The initial few hours are, for the most part, an almost insignificant portion of the view count. In reality, those are the "abnormal" views. Mar 24, 2021 at 11:58
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    ... I thought it was clear what I meant when I used the word "rate". Earlier, where I said "hardly ever", I was talking about a fraction of total traffic. It's obvious by looking at the front page that the activity on the site is dominated by the churn of new questions, because if it weren't, you would frequently see old questions in ways other than searching. Mar 24, 2021 at 12:00
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    You cannot observe activities that don't bump to the front page. So, your the basis from your data is flawed and you reach conclusions that aren't necessarily applicable to others than yourself. Extrapolating from those doesn't hold up if people don't use the site like you do. I never use the front page, for example. I find it useless. What I do is use a custom filter and go through linked questions often. I also go through older Q&As from time to time. I do frequently see old questions in the end. You don't. Mar 24, 2021 at 12:21

1 Answer 1

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In all cases I remember there is either

  • an overwhelming disagreement with the proposal and the [status-declined] tag simply gets added by a diamond user (moderator or community manager, or sometimes just an employee with the diamond). There usually are plenty of comments/answers explaining the reasoning and no new info would be added by an "official" reply.
  • a positively received feature request gets either a long comment or a complete answer. Indeed there is a good chance that the declination to implement a popular feature is not received well and is not marked as an accepted answer.

In this particular case the answer by Shog9 (who worked for Stack Overflow at that time) sits with -17 (+19/-36) votes and explains the official position of the company.

If you find a [status-declined] post without such information - asking a question on meta for that specific case as you did with this question would likely be the fastest route to get the information. Even if a CM took the time to answer, it is likely someone from community will be able to find/remember the reason.

On bringing the same FR up again:

It is generally acceptable to bring up the same feature-request again, but it needs to address why the decline reason is no longer applicable and why the feature is still important.

In this particular case I see at least two areas that need to be addressed:

  • how the proposed feature interacts with existing voting (how often you can vote, aging of the flags/votes) and particularly review cases where abuse of the system may happen. There are plenty of cases of close/reopen wars recently, and clarifying that the proposed feature would not make those more frequent can definitely help the cause.
  • why do we still need this. The only somewhat useful case is to switch any other close reason to the duplicate (as really there are only two: "off-topic" and "on-topic but duplicate" close reasons) and that can be done relatively easily by a gold tag badge holder without any extra work...
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  • Okay, and the other part? Given that there was an explanation that was not received well, how can I help convince staff to reconsider? Mar 24, 2021 at 2:46
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    @KarlKnechtel I think I've addressed that in the edit. Mar 24, 2021 at 2:51
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    Bluntly, I disagree with your reasoning at the end. I feel it's very important that off-topic or low-quality questions are closed for the right reason, because it affects the feedback that OP gets. Anyway, I will try to re-raise the FR the next time I have the energy for it. Mar 24, 2021 at 3:00
  • @KarlKnechtel I agree with you in theory, but it doesn't help to make it black and white. There is a middle ground and the middle ground is important when there are simply not enough hands to make everything perfect. It is important that questions are closed for the right reason, an attempt should be made to get that right from the very first moment. But that does not imply that it is necessary to add a new moderation tool which can be abused for the wrong reasons to correct it when that happens to go wrong, confusion should it arise can be dealt with using pre-existing tools.
    – Gimby
    Mar 25, 2021 at 13:04

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