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I was just reading No Thanks, Damn It!. This meta question covers the expected style with regards to salutations, thanks, as well as other decorations and/or embellishments that add a human touch to questions and answers here. However, while perusing the answers, I was particularly gobsmacked that a certain number of well-articulated and meaningful answers were community deleted with a This post is hidden. It was deleted 5 years ago by Community notice.

As pertains to Meta, perhaps I don't understand. Why were these posts deleted when they were?:

  1. Valuable user feedback (answers or comments).
  2. Good discussions with other users.
  3. Content that the users actually put meaningful effort into making (i.e. not one sentence but well formatted, elaborated thoughts).
  4. Expenses - time is money, some of us participate here on work time and that isn't free time.
  5. Subjected to downvote thresholds that do not reflect sentiment by objective means.

On a site with 10 million users, one post was deleted that had 51 upvotes and 82 downvotes. How is that objective? Many other posts have such +/- distributions that are similarly deleted when a number of users have indicated positive support for the post.

In my humble (debatable) opinion, user feedback IS valuable. Users spend time reading the questions and dedicate valuable making answers. Why discount that so heavily for a few downvotes -- votes that are by percentage of site users but a drop-in-the-bucket of opinion on this site?

As a user who has been away for a while, when I come back here, I value reading what other users think and feel about things. I don't appreciate that their answers on meta here are deleted as such because their input means something to me as a fellow user.

I never thought of Stack Overflow as a strict wiki or overly sanitized forum - but that is the impression I am getting when I see how answers are being deleted based on votes.

I have never seen this site as a wiki so much as a hybrid wiki-conversation. What is a wiki-conversation? It is a bunch of live (living people) that can help when needed, help maintain common oft-needed helps, and also provide a little sense of community.

When I see answers being deleted, well thought out and articulated, opinions or other, I think they do belong here and should not have been deleted. The site seems heavy handed towards conformity and that obviously isn't me.

Regardless of how well this fits me, is this still the right ethos?

As far as Meta is concerned, maybe the deletion thresholds and/or criteria needs a second look.

I quote this answer on Understanding what's valuable to Stack Overflow:

It has been said that the golden rule here is preserve value. If the post adds any value whatsoever to the community, the site, or even the larger Internet, then it should not be deleted. That includes concerns as simple as breaking links to popular Q&A by deleting them. ... deletion is generally inappropriate and unwelcome.

I also quote user StackOverthrow's comment on that answer:

Actual practice is to close and delete a huge number of Q&As, both old and new, that provide considerable value but don't fit narrow interpretations of the site's format.

Meta, of all the places, is a place where a lot of important stuff is discussed. If you made a valuable contribution here, then I really want to see it. I want your post to be a first class citizen not cloistered away under the This post is hidden. It was deleted. message umbrella. Obscuring user insight and behavior in this way, for the reasons provided seems regressive to this community.

For discussion.

Screenshot of deleted answer for <10k users:

screenshot of a deleted answer

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  • 5
    Can you provide a screenshot of one of the deleted answers for us low rep users?
    – 10 Rep
    Jan 4, 2021 at 22:49
  • @10Repsaysgetvaccinated Sure. see post. That is but one example from that page that is now hidden. All of them, as far as that discussion, were valuable content. Save one user that deleted their own epic Answer and 50+ comment users discussion. Jan 4, 2021 at 22:57
  • 2
    Maybe it was converted to "Community" when the user was deleted? Per this FAQ, there doesn't seem to be any mechanism for automatic answer removal on meta sites except for account destruction, which I assume isn't what happened here. Jan 4, 2021 at 22:58
  • @adabsurdum LOL. Ha! That one was deleted by the author. Others on that page were not. I pasted one such at the bottom of the question. I don't have a problem with users deleting their own Answers. I suppose, particularly epic answers could be curated for community benefit. But lets tackle one issue at a time. Jan 4, 2021 at 22:59
  • 1
    I think anyone has a right to delete their own post, but no matter the votes, Answers should not be removed on meta by other users. Things change, people change, opinion change. Deleting Answers means someone decides that no one should be allowed to agree or disagree. I don't like that at all. The system just does what someone told it to. I'd prefer it didn't remove these Answers.
    – Scratte
    Jan 4, 2021 at 23:48
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    @Scratte: I see nothing wrong with deleting answers on Meta. Think of it from this other perspective - if an answer is poor enough to quality for deletion on Meta, why remove that power from seasoned and disciplined curators?
    – Makoto
    Jan 4, 2021 at 23:51
  • It appears that I jumped the gun on why some of these answers were deleted. Perhaps I've jumped to conclusions. However, I have seen other answers deleted and it can't be just my imagination that either AI or moderating is performing a disservice. Does the question still stand? I'll let the community decide. Jan 4, 2021 at 23:52
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    @Makoto Because as I already said, it removed my ability to see it and my option to have an opinion on it. Removing the posts is akin to censorship and hiding unpopular opinion. It's not right. It sort of reminds me of the people in power suppressing the ones without by hiding what they have to say. That's the impression I get when Answers suddenly go missing on meta.
    – Scratte
    Jan 4, 2021 at 23:53
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    @Scratte: If you can cite where in the ToS that you get an option to see each and every post on the site, then I'll happily stand corrected. Otherwise, you're going to have to live with the fact that, in concordance with the very powers that make Stack Exchange feasible at all, some posts are going to be deleted. It's also the case that the 10k+ community is a vociferous bunch and they do a decent enough job of policing each other. Also, moderators can intervene if necessary, but those circumstances are pretty rare.
    – Makoto
    Jan 4, 2021 at 23:57
  • @Makoto Just because it doesn't give the right in the ToS to keep an unpopular opinion around doesn't make it right to delete it. And yes, I have seen unpopular posts getting un-deleted by moderator just to see new delete votes starting to appear. Meta is highly opinionated and it should be. This is the place we discuss things. Only keeping the "nice" or "conform" opinions around seems wrong at best.
    – Scratte
    Jan 5, 2021 at 0:02
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    @Scratte: You seem to have a fixation with the idea that I'm talking about unpopular opinions. I haven't seen that happen often enough to be a problem, and as I said before, the 10k+ crowd can do some internal policing on itself to redress any major issues, or involve moderators as necessary. It's rare, but it happens. Unpopular opinions can stay heavily downvoted, and that's fine too. It's usually the posts which are unconstructive or heavily incendiary that actually get deleted. I'm sensing a distinct lack of trust here on this issue.
    – Makoto
    Jan 5, 2021 at 0:04
  • @Makoto You're right. I do have a trust issue on this. My trust is weakened every time something goes missing. I have spent hours searching for posts only to come to the conclusion that they must have been deleted. It forces me to memorize the content and keep a link to them asking other users to verify their content.
    – Scratte
    Jan 5, 2021 at 0:08
  • @Scratte I delete my downvoted answers 99 percent of the time...
    – 10 Rep
    Jan 5, 2021 at 3:05
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    Answers on Meta SO are allowed to stay visible as long as they are constructive and relevant to the question. Moderators are known to intervene in the uncommon cases where answers were inappropriately voted for deletion.
    – E net4
    Jan 5, 2021 at 10:42
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    @Scratte The answer in question was effectively self-deleted. It is not censorship or anything else that you're alluding to. In fact, what happened here is perfectly in line with what you articulated in the very first comment.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Jan 6, 2021 at 5:58

1 Answer 1

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Hol up.

We didn't delete that answer. The system did, when the user deleted their own account (see also: How does deleting work? What can cause a post to be deleted, and what does that actually mean? What are the criteria for deletion?)

Besides that...I don't have a strong argument suggesting that there's something valuable here besides someone else's incendiary opinion on copy editing who has somehow morphed what is a routine thing of getting rid of noise into some vendetta against non-native English speakers.

It was heavily downvoted for a reason; people didn't agree with it. But that doesn't mean that we went out of our way to delete the question.

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  • Is the typo in the first sentence intentional?
    – 10 Rep
    Jan 4, 2021 at 23:58
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    @10Repsaysgetvaccinated: It wasn't a typo?
    – Makoto
    Jan 4, 2021 at 23:59
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    The account wasn't even destroyed by moderators. It was self-deleted. "This user requested deletion while logged into the site" is the message I see as a moderator looking at the deleted account.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Jan 6, 2021 at 5:53
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    Today, I learned from Urban Dictionary that I am "mainly African American". Who knew? (Technically, though, this is only a matter of pronunciation, not spelling. This type of elision should be rendered in writing by using an apostrophe to indicate the elided letter(s). But I hel off from an edit.)
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Jan 6, 2021 at 5:55

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