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Referring to this re-open review: https://stackoverflow.com/review/reopen/27991434

This particular question is not a good candidate for re-opening, but it has been edited to include a solution because the opportunity to provide one is not there.

We see many edits to closed questions where a response is appended into the question body because we can see a possible solution that might help OP but because the post is already closed we cannot post it.

In this case, the current process is to flag the post for reopening, follow it, then when or if it is reopened, then we can provide an answer.

Except the process itself is flawed in the sense that there is not an easy way to communicate why the post should be re-opened and the previous close votes will often out-weigh any re-opens. In some cases the answer is simple or really specific, but not simple enough to explain as a comment.

I've been there just today with this question: How do I pass variables between methods in C# I look at the close reason and totally disagree with it, its very clear what OP wants to achieve and even why they want to do it, it even looks useful enough for the general beginner community.

I hope I have the time and patience to edit the original post to make it more accessible to the wider community, but if I can provide an answer, should that not be sufficient to be considered as my reason for reopening?

What I was expecting in this scenario that I could vote to re-open, AND provide a potential answer that would be visible in the reopen queue.

I was tempted to do as the other reviewer had and simply edit the post to include an answer, but there has to be a better way. I guess I could post my own similar question and answer it then mark it as a dup, but that's an even dirtier hack.

I'm happy for this type of answer to not count to normal rep to discourage it being abused, it's just a review action, but at the same time, I want to help OP.

Many of us who feel that we can provide good answers don't really have the time to wait around after upvote and reopen flags, before we come back and provide an answer. It is this scenario that leads to us being lazy and providing answers in edits. We know it's bad, and I'm sure I've done it once or twice out of frustration, but if as reviewers we are happy to put our time into solving these issues, shouldn't SO be facilitating that?

We specifically have a flag on edits to block them when the edit is actually proposing an answer, but the system is sort or encouraging us to do this when we feel strongly that we have a good answer.

At least by allowing us to provide a potential answer with the reopen vote we can reduce the over-all burden of managing the separate queues and we can hpopefully provide help back to OP, rather than leaving them frustrated with SO, often it is their direct lack of understanding in a subject that is preventing them from writing a good question, in many cases if they had the necessary understanding there would not be a question in the first place.

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    but if I can provide an answer, should that not be sufficient to be considered as my reason for reopening? --> no because not all the questions that can be answered fit into SO. Should I learn C++? is a question than can easily be answered but it's should be kept closed Jan 4, 2021 at 13:51
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    And you are refering to a question closed as duplicate so if you have a good answer, do it in the duplicate target. We should not reopen duplicates simply because you can answer them. We don't want the same question asked a million time. Jan 4, 2021 at 13:54
  • @TemaniAfif I certainly agree, not all closed questions should be answered, this particular example is a poor one in that sense, but we should be able to offer a potential answer if we think its worth putting the time in. The next reviewer can then either agree with our argument or not, I'm saying that the many edits to include answers is evidence that reviewers are frustrated the system could benefit from this minor improvement. Jan 4, 2021 at 14:06
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    I'm saying that the many edits to include answers is evidence that reviewers are frustrated ... -->It's an evidence that the reviewers are wrong and you should automatically rollback such edits and probably flag for moderator attention if such behavior is repeated. If you think a question worth answering, follow it, vote to reopen and once it's reopened you will get notified and you can add your answer. If the question remain closed (whataver the reason) you can re-ask the question in a proper manner and self-answer it (of course I am talking about legit/on-topic questions). Jan 4, 2021 at 14:11
  • The reality is that I don't feel that strongly enough about many of these questions that I would follow it and wait for the opportunity to post an answer. I've got 20 mins to kill right now, and I'm happy to put in a decent write up, but when I go to the next question in the queue I've moved on. This actively blocks me from participating in more review tasks, I want to help, but sometimes its more effort than it needs to be. Jan 4, 2021 at 14:18
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    I tthink you are in the wrong queue if you want to help and write answers. Go to the home page and simply follow the new asked question and answer them. Why wasting your time reviewing closed questions if want to give answers? Jan 4, 2021 at 14:20
  • I'm not in the queue specifically to do this, but every other session you come across a question and you think, hey I know this one, but if it was closed then many other people clearly do not. If we are reopening because we think it is a good fit for the site and can be answered, surely we should be able to provide said answer as additional information on why we think it is a good candidate for reopening. Jan 4, 2021 at 14:25
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    I would argue that you may waste your time adding the said answer and at the end the quesiton remain closed. Actually the system is avoiding that waste of time which is a good thing. Jan 4, 2021 at 14:28
  • That exactly my point, many of the questions that are closed but could be answered, are closed due to lack of detail, but OP is not likely to able to provide the information we think would make it a better question. I could submit some flags and wait for an opportunity to respond, or I could edit the post now to improve and and provide an answer, saving everyone else the effort, just saying its an opportunity for a reviewer to give more, by doing less. Jan 4, 2021 at 14:38
  • this looks related: Can a question with an accepted answer be closed as unanswerable
    – gnat
    Jan 6, 2021 at 5:26

1 Answer 1

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[I]f I can provide an answer, should that not be sufficient to be considered as my reason for reopening?

Simply put, no. Whether a question can be answered or not, much less whether you can answer it, is almost completely irrelevant in determining whether or not the question is suitable for Stack Overflow.

When reviewing closed questions for re-opening, you should be evaluating the reason given when the question is closed, looking to see if that reason still applies and/or if you agree that reason was ever appropriate.

If you disagree that the question should have ever been closed for the given reason, you should then check to see if the question should have been closed for a different reason. If so, you should vote to keep the question closed. It is pointless busy-work to get a consensus of users to reopen a question just to turn around and get another consensus of users to close it. If none of the close reasons apply, then you should obviously vote to re-open the question.

If you see why the question was closed originally, but see that it has been edited to invalidate that reason, then you should probably vote to reopen—but first, still check to make sure that none of the other reasons apply. For example, you wouldn't want to reopen a question that was unclear, but edited to something primarily opinion-based.

If you see why the question was closed originally, but do not believe that the edits (if any) solve the problems identified with the question, then you need to dig deeper. Is there a good question lurking just under the surface that you, as a subject-matter expert, can dig out with some edits? If so, go ahead and edit. Was the clarification provided in a comment (or multiple comments) to the question? If so, then you need to edit that clarification into the question proper. Look hard; do everything you can to salvage the question. We'd prefer, whenever possible, to salvage value. That's why we have actual humans, and in particular those whom we have identified as knowledgeable, reviewing closed questions.

If you don't have time to engage in this thorough of a review and/or don't have time to make edits, then you should just "Skip". Let someone else handle it. It's not an emergency. We'd rather the question stay closed until such time as a knowledgeable person willing to give of their time can handle it, rather than it getting re-opened prematurely.

We see many edits to closed questions where a response is appended into the question body

These edits should always be rolled back, regardless of whether you decide to leave closed, reopen, or skip the question under review. There is never an excuse for an answer to appear in the question. Never. Period. Not up for discussion.

Editing an answer into a closed question is an intentional subversion of our rules, and it will be punished accordingly.

there is not an easy way to communicate why the post should be re-opened and the previous close votes will often out-weigh any re-opens.

There is indeed an easy way to communicate why the post should be re-opened: post a comment with that explanation. Note that such a comment should not attempt to provide an answer to the question. That's not the purpose of comments, and, as discussed above, the fact that an answer exists is neither necessary nor sufficient to make the question eligible for re-opening.

Focus on the actual close reasons—do they apply? If you don't think they do, you need to make an argument against it. "I have an answer" is not an argument against a close reason.

Previous close votes don't outweigh reopen votes.

In some cases the answer is simple or really specific, but not simple enough to explain as a comment.

At the risk of repeating myself: answers don't belong in comments. Nor do they belong in the question. They belong as answers. If the question is closed, it cannot and should not be answered.

To determine whether a question should be (or should remain) closed, look only at the text of the question and only at the text of the close reasons.

Many of us who feel that we can provide good answers don't really have the time to wait around after upvote and reopen flags, before we come back and provide an answer. It is this scenario that leads to us being lazy and providing answers in edits. We know it's bad, and I'm sure I've done it once or twice out of frustration, but if as reviewers we are happy to put our time into solving these issues, shouldn't SO be facilitating that?

No. If the result of your review is editing an answer into the question, then you are reviewing incorrectly.

If such actions are brought to moderator attention, then you will be suspended, not only for reviewing incorrectly, but also for actively subverting the site's policies and procedures.

We specifically have a flag on edits to block them when the edit is actually proposing an answer, but the system is sort or encouraging us to do this when we feel strongly that we have a good answer.

Absolutely not. In no way is the system encouraging you to do this.

Closed questions should not be answered. It cannot possibly be made any clearer than that.

At least by allowing us to provide a potential answer with the reopen vote we can reduce the over-all burden of managing the separate queues and we can hpopefully provide help back to OP, rather than leaving them frustrated with SO, often it is their direct lack of understanding in a subject that is preventing them from writing a good question, in many cases if they had the necessary understanding there would not be a question in the first place.

From that description, it sounds like the question is not at all suitable for Stack Overflow and should not be reopened, much less answered. If, as a reviewer, you've identified a question that is unsuitable for Stack Overflow that cannot be transformed into one that is suitable for Stack Overflow, then it is your duty to be voting to keep that question closed, not answering it.

If you're looking for the queue of questions that need to be answered, try sorting by score in the tag(s) of your expertise.

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  • So while I agree in general with much of all that, you've highlighted the exact reasons for my feature request: allow us to suggest a solution as part of the re-open flag so that we do not feel the need to answer in the comments or edit the answer into the post. the very fact that users are trying to subvert the process is supporting evidence that the current prcoess is somehow lacking. Jan 6, 2021 at 5:45
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    We have users all the time who are trying to break the rules. Should we also allow users to upvote a post multiple times, since clearly lots of people want to, based on the number of sockpuppet voting accounts that I destroy every day? No. We just hold users accountable for following the rules.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Jan 6, 2021 at 5:48
  • That why I post here so we can discuss this request, should we change the rules because we want to break them is not a constructive argument, I believe that a feature like this would encourage users to do the right thing the first time. Jan 6, 2021 at 5:53
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    I believe that a feature like this would encourage users to do the wrong thing, as you've already admitted to doing. Please stop doing the wrong thing, and try instead to do the right thing.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Jan 6, 2021 at 6:02
  • I have identified a case where someone else has done the wrong thing, and I realise why that have done it, and later in the same day felt the urge to do the very same naughty action (edit the post with an answer, or put the answer in a comment). It seemed so natural when faced with the fact that SO doesn't make it easy to post comments with our flags (we have to post them on the post directly) I want the ability to add some weight behind my measly reopen flag or some supporting argument because I feel that I have enough experience in the subject domain to do so. Jan 6, 2021 at 6:14
  • It is very intentional. We do not want people answering closed questions. I do not understand how this could possibly be made any clearer.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Jan 6, 2021 at 6:25
  • The scenario i see it the most is when a post is closed quickly (usually for more detail) but OP doesn't have the required knowledge or experience to provide the needed detail AND there is in fact enough detail to provide an answer. We want to help OP right? Because we want them to come back and ask for help again later. Being able to add a comment or solution with my reopen flag that is only visible by reviewers until the post is reopened means we don't need to flood the original post or comments with this level of information Jan 6, 2021 at 6:40
  • "We want to help OP right?" No, we don't care about that. All we care about is improving the quality of our knowledge base. If the question is not in a form that meets our minimum expectations, then it should not be answered. It's unclear to me why you're having such a difficult time understanding that. Literally nothing else matters. Not the intention of the asker, not how bad they need help, not what kind of experience they're having, none of that. Now, if you can edit to improve the question, you should absolutely do that. But don't answer it.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Jan 6, 2021 at 6:44
  • Wow, that's actually the first time I've heard that opinion from someone in the higher ranks... Over the years I've been supporting ideas that change SO more towards Knowledge base, (Teams is much closer to this) but the general response has been that SO is supposed to be questions and answers, we're supposed to be focussed on helping the community solve their problems, that's why the knowledge base side of things is lacking Jan 6, 2021 at 12:02
  • SO doesn't discriminate between right and wrong, popularity of a given answer that is driven by incentivising false up voting means that for many questions there is some bad and sometimes detrimental advice hanging around because there isn't a direct mechanism for proven knowledge leaders in topic areas to ultimately say if an answer is factual or correct. Thank you for the healthy discussion though, i'll go back into my box now ;) Jan 6, 2021 at 12:06
  • This has been Stack Overflow's mission since its very inception. The knowledge base is formed by high-quality answers to practical programming questions. Teams works in exactly the same way, capitalizing on the same tried-and-true Q&A model. Now, we certainly believe that getting people access to good answers to programming questions will help them. But the primary focus has never been on the individual user; it's always on the larger knowledge base. SO does try to discriminate between right and wrong using voting/scoring. It's not perfect, of course.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Jan 7, 2021 at 0:20

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