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Running the following search:

title:opinion closed:yes

currently yields 57 results. Of these, What is your opinion on Clojure? has a historical lock. I've gone through them all, and I think the remaining 56 should be deleted, and I'd like to ask the community for help in doing so.

Note that 2 of these questions are false positives, i.e. they are not actually opinion based, but https://stackoverflow.com/questions/43261024 is an unneeded duplicate, and When there is no 'correct' path forward, what are Apple's/Swift's guidelines (i.e. not opinion) stating whether you should silently fail, or crash? is seeking recommendations, and both can be deleted.

Also, there are some posts that are fairly popular, some of which might be found by a more refined search:

title:opinion closed:yes views:1000 votes:10 locked:no

If there is disagreement about whether these, or any other posts should be deleted, or there appears to be contentious voting on any of them, please consider flagging them for historical locks.



I'm listing all the posts here, to be able to keep track of them in case any get deleted accidentally.



Note that I'm not asking for any action at all on open posts, e.g. posts in this search:

title:opinion closed:no

which yields 290 results. There are enough false positives in this list, as well as posts that can be salvaged with some editing, that addressing these posts is beyond the scope of this request.

Finally, and for no particular reason other than I think it's fun, here's a question asked by Jon Skeet in this list:

What's your most controversial programming opinion?

27
  • 29
    That is just your opinion ...
    – rene
    Nov 16, 2020 at 21:29
  • 3
    I saw the title and got confused for a sec ;)
    – 10 Rep
    Nov 16, 2020 at 21:30
  • 10
    I was trying to be witty, but now it looks like click-bait :p
    – cigien
    Nov 16, 2020 at 21:31
  • 4
    Your opinion on declaring constants inside methods…? was answered by a legend. While none of these would be OK today, some of those are very good advice from experts. Removing them all from the site would be losing something valuable. Keeping them around would not do any harm whatsoever.
    – Scratte
    Nov 16, 2020 at 22:08
  • 1
    @Scratte Actually, while the answers are not bad at all, all that material is covered more comprehensively in posts like How many and which are the uses of “const” in C++?. Perhaps some of the answers could be migrated to the appropriate posts?
    – cigien
    Nov 16, 2020 at 22:12
  • 5
    You're asking users to put their delete votes on all of these posts. Why is that so important? What harm is this/all of those posts doing?
    – Scratte
    Nov 16, 2020 at 22:13
  • 1
    I just want to say this tho: opinion based questions tend to attract answers that recommend something. These usually have fact in them, no? For instance, a question titled, "Should I do x?" will attract a few answers that go, "yes, because [why]". We should downvote the answers that just say yes.
    – 10 Rep
    Nov 16, 2020 at 22:18
  • 7
    When you say "cleaning up", I see "Destroying value". access to moderator tools says "Closed questions that are of no lasting value whatsoever should be deleted". That is not true for these posts.
    – Scratte
    Nov 16, 2020 at 22:18
  • 3
    @Scratte I'm afraid a general discussion about which posts should be deleted, and when opinion based questions have value, is beyond the scope here, and has been discussed on meta before. However, if there are any posts here that you think have value, then as mentioned in the question, please consider flagging them for locks.
    – cigien
    Nov 16, 2020 at 22:21
  • 1
    @Scratte Not on your own perhaps, but instead, you could post an answer listing the posts that you would like to preserve (because they have some value), and ask other like minded users to take the actions you think appropriate, similar to how I have requested users to take certain actions.
    – cigien
    Nov 16, 2020 at 22:25
  • 1
    @Scratte No, it's not. If you think some questions have value, prove it. Most users don't just delete because they're asked to. Not to mention that if a post has good value to begin with, it's very likely that it has a couple of answers with a good number of upvotes, which would make it need more delete-votes. Nov 16, 2020 at 22:27
  • 1
    @Scratte On the contrary. All of those posts have been closed already, most of them with the "opinion based" reason, which is already lot of evidence that the posts don't have much value.
    – cigien
    Nov 16, 2020 at 22:32
  • 4
    @cigien No. That a post is closed for any reason, doesn't mean it has no value. That is a false assumption. It's like saying: All closed posts should be deleted.
    – Scratte
    Nov 16, 2020 at 22:33
  • 2
    @HammanSamuel I take it you're saying that posting a list of questions and suggesting deletion was a bad idea? If so, could you give me some suggestions on how to discuss this specific topic? I'd be happy to edit the question to make it more useful, and inclusive of community opinion.
    – cigien
    Nov 17, 2020 at 1:26
  • 2
    The meme-compliant version: Well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man Nov 17, 2020 at 6:15

2 Answers 2

43

Please stop doing keyword searches and deleting stuff that's been on the site for 5-10 years. The time and effort spent on those 50-odd posts is better spent on helping users that are posting questions now.

Removing old stuff has no benefits at all, other than giving the deleters a good feeling. Removing 50, 500 or even 5.000 or 50.000 (that's 0.2%) questions is not making a significant dent in the 20.5 MILLION questions we have on the site. It has no single use whatsoever, and you're actually actively making the Internet and the site a worse place by removing relevant information. What should be deleted are new non-questions, spam and other garbage, but any question that contains any programming-related information whatsoever, especially when "grandfathered in" (i.e. lots of views, votes, answers or time) should be left alone - unless they are overtaken by time and actively harmful (like the Favorite Programming Books / Tutorials for language X lists).

Deleting old questions because they are off-topic today is a waste of time and resources that should be better spent on helping people who are currently active on the site. If you organically encounter one and think it should be removed, cast your vote and let the queues and community do the rest - do not actively search for them, and do not gather mobs to do so.

And no, I didn't like the previous witch hunt either, where at least a dozen on-topic posts with definitive value were deleted.

22
  • 5
    Thank you, once again, for voicing your opinion in an answer, I appreciate it. I understand your point about it being a waste of time, but this is entirely optional. No one is under any obligation to spend any time, or their delete votes on any of the questions. Also, regarding the reference to the previous post, as far as I can tell none of the posts that you claim have "definitive value" have been undeleted. Which suggests that their value might not be as clear as you're implying.
    – cigien
    Nov 17, 2020 at 1:30
  • 1
    @cigien What is the point of the first two sentences in that comment? Were you trying to be ironic by talking about an opinion? Nov 17, 2020 at 8:06
  • 3
    @cigien I'm not going to go down into that psychological argument. In my experience, people are eager to close and delete stuff, but less so to undelete and reopen. It's like they feel like they're held more accountable for the latter. After all, once closed or deleted, very few people see those posts and challenge these actions.
    – CodeCaster
    Nov 17, 2020 at 10:22
  • 14
    What do you mean deleting old questions has no benefits? I strongly disagree. We really should be focusing more attention on old questions. Deleting some of them is a very good way to keep the site clean and searching for them is a time well spent. True that some of these posts might still be valuable, but that is why Cigien has asked us to evaluate them on Meta.
    – Dharman Mod
    Nov 17, 2020 at 11:12
  • @AndrewGrimm Sorry, I'm not trying to be ironic at all. The comment is in reference to the post that is linked in the answer, where I had responded to one of CodeCaster's comments by asking them to write an answer with a suggestion of what users should do instead, and why. They did so, and have now posted an answer here that is similar. I'm just thanking them for that, since it's easier to respond to an answer than comments.
    – cigien
    Nov 17, 2020 at 11:27
  • 7
    @CodeCaster Then we should prevent new questions from being asked and clean up the existing ones. What's the point in having tons of questions if no one is moderating them? We only want to keep the really useful questions and answers. There is abosuletly no reason to keep the ones that are not a good fit for the site or are not useful to anyeone. It is our responsibility to keep the site clean. New questions are a problem because there is too many of them, but that does not mean we should ignore old questions.
    – Dharman Mod
    Nov 17, 2020 at 12:05
  • 1
    @Dharman old questions just sitting there are harming nobody, apart from backup tapes.
    – CodeCaster
    Nov 17, 2020 at 12:06
  • 6
    People are finding mostly old questions through Google search. These are the questions that receive most traffic. New questions need to get a foothold first and we still have time to work on the new questions. Let's focus on the ones that are prominent in searches.
    – Dharman Mod
    Nov 17, 2020 at 12:06
  • 14
    Old questions are hurting people looking for information. This is one of the main reasons why I even contribute to the site. I am annoyed with the amount of garbage thrown at me when searching for something. I barely never find the new questions
    – Dharman Mod
    Nov 17, 2020 at 12:07
  • 4
    @Dharman please explain (in an answer of your own, not here in comments) how relevant information is actually hurting people. What I find hurting myself when I search the web, is the ten gazillion regex and Git questions whose answers are catered to one OP and one OP only, without any explanations but just "paste these commands" or "paste these hieroglyphs". Not questions about pronunciations or experts opinions where they explain why something is a good idea or not.
    – CodeCaster
    Nov 17, 2020 at 12:09
  • 1
    I agree. I feel it's worth pointing out likewise that moderating new questions today prevents bad questions from becoming old ones later. It's really, really important to curate current, modern content now so that the archive remains as clean as possible later. If the trade-off from curating the old is less curating of the current, it's not worth it.
    – zcoop98
    Nov 17, 2020 at 16:00
  • 1
    @l4mpi by that logic we should delete all questions, because otherwise nobody can find anything, as all irrelevant posts push all other relevant posts out of the search results. The truth is that when people search on certain keywords, they get results relevant to those keywords. Trust me, Google has 22 years of experience in this, they kinda know what they are doing, search-wise. I do not find (all of) the questions we're talking about here (and in the pronunciation question) garbage, and therefore at least not all of them should be deleted in my opinion.
    – CodeCaster
    Nov 18, 2020 at 17:20
  • 1
    @l4mpi as for my "it's not worth it" argument, I refer you to the first and third paragraph in my answer, and to summarize: it is not beneficial to anyone but the deleter to delete old posts that are upvoted and viewed much, and only to feed their false feeling of "cleaning up the site". I find it egotistical to let that feeling go above the benefit of all other visitors that will potentially read that info. Why deprive them of relevant programming knowledge, just because you don't deem it "clean" enough? Enforce the rules on new posts but leave old posts with many views and votes alone.
    – CodeCaster
    Nov 18, 2020 at 17:24
  • 1
    Well, though I agree with the request ('please stop keyword searching for stuff to remove'), I have to -1 this because you repeatedly make a false statement with much conviction and bold for emphasis.
    – TylerH
    Nov 18, 2020 at 21:47
  • 1
    @CodeCaster Re 1st/3rd para: you don't get to decide what other people do. Only part I'm somewhat agreeing with is "don't gather mobs", and even that would depend on the specific case. Re all else: obviously we have different standards of what we call garbage. The "deprive" part is laughable in the context of posts like "how to pronounce sqlite" though. If you think specific questions are valuable and should be kept around, by all means make your case for them, but that's no reason not to clean up the rest.
    – l4mpi
    Nov 19, 2020 at 10:05
6

If the suggestion is to have some kind of regex filter check analogous to how "problem" is meant to be a regex filter check for the word "opinion", I think I'd be okay with this. At the bare minimum, it would put a lid on people who are explicitly fishing for opinions or opinionated conversations.

Also, can we have a moment to just...revisit some of the historically locked questions? That one from Jon Skeet doesn't even seem to be all that valuable even today. It was just...put in resin.

16
  • 1
    Oh, I wasn't even suggesting something like that (though that sounds interesting). I'm simply asking for the community to consider casting delete votes on the listed posts if they want. Is that not clear from the question? Revisiting historical locks sounds great by the way :)
    – cigien
    Nov 16, 2020 at 21:48
  • Deleting the questions sound like effort because if they have over a threshold of upvotes, it could require a lot of delete votes. Maybe a mod could step in and handle this exception.
    – Makoto
    Nov 16, 2020 at 21:56
  • Well, that would be amazing. I'll edit the question to suggest that, thanks.
    – cigien
    Nov 16, 2020 at 21:58
  • 1
    Historical lock exists to preserve content that may have been acceptable at one point. While some historically locked questions need to be deleted, some just shouldn't be deleted.
    – 10 Rep
    Nov 16, 2020 at 22:20
  • 6
    @10Rep: Why not? When the value doesn't exist anymore, what's the point of keeping it around? Nostalgia?
    – Makoto
    Nov 16, 2020 at 22:24
  • 1
    @Makoto the same can be said about the MSE post on StackOverflow Memes. That has no value, but does that mean it should be deleted? Or rather, will it be deleted?
    – 10 Rep
    Nov 16, 2020 at 22:39
  • 5
    @10Rep: You'd need a stronger argument to remove things like that from Meta, since Meta sites aren't meant for curating the site, they're meant to discuss/facilitate circumstances that have come about because the site is being curated (and memes definitely come up during curation). But honestly - a 250K question asking about controversial programming opinions...these days that'd just qualify as a blog post and we'd move on from it. No reason to keep it here where we expect and demand question and answer quality.
    – Makoto
    Nov 16, 2020 at 23:01
  • @Makoto I actually understand your point, but one thing: If the question was deleted, wouldn't jon skeet lose a lot of reputation? I know SO isn't all about fairness, but it just doesn't seem fair.
    – 10 Rep
    Nov 16, 2020 at 23:34
  • 1
    @10Rep I think Jon will survive ;) Besides, it's a CW, so I don't think it matters.
    – cigien
    Nov 16, 2020 at 23:35
  • Then I'm all for it!
    – 10 Rep
    Nov 16, 2020 at 23:36
  • 3
    Ugh, a regex block on keywords? Pardon me, but have you lost your dang mind?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Nov 17, 2020 at 1:20
  • 2
    @CodyGray: I suppose I'm not going to fuss over the details. I'd rather they tried something rather than nothing to address this issue.
    – Makoto
    Nov 17, 2020 at 4:12
  • 1
    So you'd rather we start fussing over people's "opinon", or perhaps people's "oponion"? Haven't you just created a new porblem?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Nov 17, 2020 at 6:11
  • 1
    @CodyGray: I'm going to interpret your pessimism here as "lacking follow-up" with the sense that, just because something to detect the word "opinion" in the question exists, that doesn't mean that question askers will get the hint, nor will Stack Exchange actually add teeth to warnings like that when it comes to asking questions.
    – Makoto
    Nov 17, 2020 at 16:03
  • 7
    No, it's more just the the "clbuttic" problem. There are fully legitimate uses of the word "opinion" in questions. The mere appearance of that word doesn't mean that I am asking the type of opinion-based question that Stack Overflow intends to prohibit. Regex-based filters do not, in my opinion, solve any problems. It's not about the follow-through or the error messages. It's about the false positives. As much as I complain about reviewers who trigger on keywords, having the system trigger on keywords is even worse.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Nov 17, 2020 at 21:39

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