18

Disclaimer: I am genuinely confused right here, so I am seeking different peoples' point of view. I am not asking for action to be taken nor anything. I just want a more experienced member's point of view.

So basically, I stumbled on this answer a long time ago. I have been reading it again and again, now and then. The more I read it, the more I wonder if it truly brings anything to the question at all.

I mean, the question was posted because the bad formatting confused as to why the code works. And when I read the answer, I am under the impression that it does not explain why the code does what it does at all. Instead, it seems like it was posted as a joke.

When I try to put myself as an outsider point of view, I notice the fact that it is highly upvoted, and then I start asking myself:

Is that the kind of high quality answer that is expected on Stack Overflow?

4
  • 4
    Another example of a joke answer (for The-Famous-Question-Which-Must-Not-Be-Named). Commented Oct 28, 2020 at 23:16
  • @PeterMortensen If I remember correcty, that answer used to have a special message saying that it was locked because it had historical value but is not a good example of a good answer. I think the UI change to the lock system, made it disappear or something.
    – Clockwork
    Commented Oct 29, 2020 at 7:43
  • Actually, I meant the C'thulhu answer.
    – Clockwork
    Commented Oct 29, 2020 at 7:56
  • 1
    Do we really want accurate answers about Cthulhu? The madness would spread and destroy the world. There are things man was not meant to know. Commented Oct 31, 2020 at 0:23

5 Answers 5

40

That answer was posted in 2012 to a question posted in 2009, and the Stack Overflow of those years was a completely different place to the Stack Overflow that exists in 2020.

In 2009, Stack Overflow hadn't even existed for a year. Pretty much any and all questions were accepted (as long as they were obviously about programming) because the site was trying to grow.

By 2012, Stack Overflow was much larger, but still an extremely niche site that was mostly populated by the relatively small number of enthusiast and professional programmers who were its original target audience. As such, it was a far more cohesive community than today, and as such, far more permissive of such shenanigans like the answer you've pointed out. Since the question had already been answered way back in 2009, there was little chance of a new answer causing any confusion, and the community as a whole made a value judgement on that answer: while it did not conform to the rules for content quality and therefore should not have been allowed to remain, its amusing nature outweighed the rules around quality, and thus it was preserved.

Then in 2012 the summer of love happened, and the standards for entry into this community dropped through the floor. More and more users who were not enthusiast or professional programmers, just grunts looking for a solution to problems they weren't smart enough to figure out, started posting questions on the site. Bad questions, that attracted similarly bad answers from other grunts who didn't actually know what they were talking about. Questions and answers so bad that the previous relaxed atmosphere had to be left behind and the rules enforced strictly, or the site would be so flooded with trash that there would be no room for actual quality content.

On top of that, the huge number of new users disinterested in being part of a community diluted the existing Stack Overflow community so far as to effectively destroy it. A community that is no longer cohesive cannot have a consensus within that community on how to treat questions and answers; it can only follow rules that are formally codified. And those rules state that content like that answer is not permitted on Stack Overflow.

Thus we come to 2020, where Stack Overflow is a mere shadow of the incredible place it was until 2012, and the only reminder of those glory days are rare Meta questions like these. Don't write an answer like that one to a question, don't even think about it - the tyranny of the masses has killed the joy that this site once brought to so many.

7
  • 10
    There's so much history (or rather feeling) behind this, that I even managed to understand why some are disgruntled from being on SO for too long. Reminds me of how often I'm thinking that there's a point where a community becomes too big to remain true to itself.
    – Clockwork
    Commented Oct 28, 2020 at 18:21
  • 4
    I appreciate that you are willing to listen to history lessons from an old-timer like me :) As for communities, it's definitely true that as they grow you are going to see fragmentation due to factions beginning to form - but I believe that as long as there is commonality and therefore consensus between the majority of members, the community will retain its identity. If all the users brought in by the summer of love had simply been interested in programming, I believe the Stack Overflow community would have endured.
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Oct 28, 2020 at 18:28
  • Speaking of which, doesn't it mean it should be "historically locked" like some other old posts? Like this one for example: stackoverflow.com/a/1732454/7473935
    – Clockwork
    Commented Oct 28, 2020 at 18:36
  • That question improved my programming ability quite a bit because I hadn't thought of -- > before. (I saw that question long ago.)
    – Joshua
    Commented Oct 28, 2020 at 19:31
  • 5
    I would argue the Eternal September event happened two years prior to the summer of love, in 2010: "As Stack Overflow has grown, it has started to have some decidedly big city problems. The one we are most concerned about is an influx of very low quality questions." Commented Oct 28, 2020 at 23:32
  • 4
    I'm thinking your answer had a more effective impact on me about not posting bad quality stuff, than all the rules, flags and stress did. Back then, I was just afraid of ending up in the low quality stack. Now I'm just thinking that I should avoid tainting the place any more than it already is (feeling emotionally involved).
    – Clockwork
    Commented Oct 30, 2020 at 9:40
  • 2
    +1 "grunts looking for a solution to problems they weren't smart enough to figure out, started posting questions on the site" Thanks for showing the courage to say this.
    – idmean
    Commented Oct 31, 2020 at 10:47
24

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Going to say that this is one of those quirks of the older days of Stack Overflow, in that we've always somewhat tolerated answers which are both humorous and informative.

The information in the answer is still accurate for the given circumstance; x does slide to 0. The graphic then could have helped hundreds of thousands of people to understand this awkward syntactic structure (which would cause a syntax error in other languages, I believe).

"High quality" not only implies accuracy, it implies that someone learned something from a given answer. I think when I first started out, I certainly learned something from this answer...

3
  • 1
    I can understand what you mean about the answer. In my case though, assuming I didn't see the other answer first, reading it only confused me even more as to what was going on.
    – Clockwork
    Commented Oct 28, 2020 at 14:48
  • 16
    This might also teach someone the second lesson about Stack Overflow: read every answer.
    – Makoto
    Commented Oct 28, 2020 at 14:50
  • "high quality not only implies accuracy" - I would go as far as saying that it does not imply accuracy. In many situations an answer can be improved by making it less accurate. For instance, when it's not relevant for the topic, I see nothing wrong in saying that memory allocated with malloc ends up on the heap.
    – klutt
    Commented Nov 2, 2020 at 7:55
-5

The answer got the ups because we need to think on that the many \ in the code is not some like a tricky arithmetical operator, instead a simple "append next line" operator.

But it is imho NAA. The rules are clear, flag it so. Afaik after 6 flags, @Community will intervene.

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    At worst it's an attempt of an Answer. There's are no rules that will grant an NAA on that post. The upvotes says it's useful.
    – Scratte
    Commented Oct 30, 2020 at 15:35
  • 1
    eh, the upvotes don't change anything about whether or not it's NAA. Nor do they strictly indicate usefulness. @Scratte
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 30, 2020 at 15:36
  • @KevinB You're right, of course. But NAA don't usually attract a lot of upvotes, simply because they don't answer the Question at all. Not even partially. Granted some links-only Answers sends the reader somewhere else, which some find to be useful, but they also do not actually answer anything themselves, not even partially.
    – Scratte
    Commented Oct 30, 2020 at 15:39
  • 1
    i do agree though that the answer in question is most certainly not NAA. i just disagree that the voting in any way should affect that decision.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 30, 2020 at 15:40
  • 1) I do not see the attempt to answer 2) I think it actually deserves the score, because it is funny 3) While the SO is not a chat site, so sinking the site in the sea of fun would not be funny 4) this is not a danger and many people was happy on it. 5) on this reason I can live with it that it remained.
    – peterh
    Commented Nov 24, 2020 at 0:20
-7

No, this is not an example of a good answer – not least because it does not even answer the question. It is an old answer on a popular question. At roughly 1/3 score of the question itself, it is borderline to even call it a popular answer.

Do not take it as an example for how answers should be written today.

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    Easy there, Cap'n. A good answer is an answer that taught someone something. Good answers can have an element of humor to them.
    – Makoto
    Commented Oct 28, 2020 at 16:06
  • 4
    @Makoto I vehemently disagree that just "taught someone something" is the sign of a good answer on Stack Overflow. If that is the quality measure, we can stop almost any kind of curation effort right this second. Commented Oct 28, 2020 at 16:09
  • 1
    So what would be a good answer by your standards? Something you can copy and paste into your application?
    – Makoto
    Commented Oct 28, 2020 at 16:11
  • 4
    @Makoto An answer actually answering the question would certainly be a start. The accepted answer seems to do that pretty well. Commented Oct 28, 2020 at 16:14
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    @zcoop98 I agree that the answer is an answer if you know the answer. I disagree that the answer is an answer if you have to ask for an answer. Commented Oct 28, 2020 at 17:37
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    I would argue that the linked, and clearly intended to be semi-humorous, answer actually does answer the question, by pointing out (albeit in a roundabout way) that -- and > are separate operators in the expression; the impractical expression used only works if this is the case. The only nit I'd have is that there should be some more explanation in the answer itself, because it's rather cryptic otherwise.
    – zcoop98
    Commented Oct 28, 2020 at 17:39
  • 2
    I understand your gripe, I just still think it's amusing and adds something to the overall question by being both humorous and informing of a unique language quirk.
    – zcoop98
    Commented Oct 28, 2020 at 17:41
  • 5
    @zcoop98 I do not deny that it is humorous or informative, and it was quite a lovely tease. But neither makes it a proper answer to the question, least of all an example of a good answer. Commented Oct 28, 2020 at 17:44
  • 4
    With an *answer score of 3200+* you say "it is borderline to even call it a popular answer." I disagree.
    – TylerH
    Commented Oct 29, 2020 at 14:23
  • @TylerH „At roughly 1/3 score of the question itself“ I say it is borderline. I do not say it is definitely popular nor definitely not popular. The total sum of votes is a lot, so there is obviously some popularity, but the relative votes also mean a lot of people interested in the topic did not find it upvote-worthy. If you were asked to present a „popular answer“, would this be your choice? Commented Oct 31, 2020 at 11:46
-14

Its a bad answer. Here is the code in question:

while (x --\
            \
             \
              \
               > 0)
     printf("%d ", x);

First, I think braces should always be used. Its not worth the (at most) 2 lines that you save. In fact, some newer languages like Go dont even allow that. Then we have this:

while (x --\
            \
             \
              \
               > 0) {
   printf("%d ", x);
}

Now, instead of doing fancy art, we should just change the syntax that is causing the confusion in the first place:

while (x > 0) {
   x--;
   printf("%d ", x);
}

again doing it the previous way is only saving one line, its just not worth it. Plus again, some languages like Python dont even support that syntax. What we are left with is something readable, and maintainable. Finally, the answer is missing any references. They couldve included something like this:

https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/operator_incdec

4
  • 3
    That wouldn't be very original. See this posted two years before. Notice the difference in votes too. Besides.. I learned how to break a line form that post and they way it's done makes me remember it.
    – Scratte
    Commented Oct 29, 2020 at 2:26
  • In the original snippet we leave loop with x equal to -1, in modified snippet x will be equal to 0. Commented Oct 29, 2020 at 7:49
  • @TadeuszKopec that variable shouldnt be used outside of the loop anyway. Another footgun.
    – Zombo
    Commented Oct 29, 2020 at 13:01
  • 1
    Braces for single statements is something where opinions differ a lot. Also, that's definitely not the relevant issue with this aswer.
    – klutt
    Commented Oct 30, 2020 at 14:23

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