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I received the below email, likely because I'm a member of the Moderator Team:

Hi there,

I'm Megan from Stack Overflow for Teams, and I'm trying to boost our reviews on the G2 website.

Would you mind sharing your insight and experience on Stack Overflow for Teams with your G2 peers?

We’ll send the first 20 reviewers of Stack Overflow for Teams a $25 Amazon gift card to say thanks for contributing a complete review. You can submit your review here.

Thanks in advance,

Megan Dorcey

Sr. Product Marketing Manager

It does seem like G2 permits cloud service vendors to solicit reviews from their customers (as long as they meet the other criteria for what is expected from a review). However, I would expect better from SO.

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  • 95
    Also, I have no idea what "G2" is. Paying me to add information to a website that I have never heard of before is very shady. Isn't that how most phishing works?
    – hazzey
    Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 16:10
  • 82
    That's a yikes from me.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 16:16
  • 35
    Seems like they are paying for a review and not for a good review which I don't think is that bad.
    – Joe W
    Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 16:31
  • 3
    FWIW: I got the same email (from a different employee) back in May. I didn't do the review though. Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 16:53
  • 4
    @JonEricson And to think Jon, if you'd done the review maybe we wouldn't be in this situation with other users getting emails :p Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 16:54
  • 37
    I think the choice of wording in the email is clumsy. "Trying to boost our reviews" does, indeed, sound like paying you to give a 5 star review. But assuming good faith - sending gift vouchers, in return for an honest review of a site, is not uncommon practice. Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 17:02
  • 9
    While I do dislike this, it's so enormously common that I can't really oppose it. You either have few reviews, or reviews by users receiving a reward for it. Both options are poor, and at least the site is reporting it correctly. A minor nitpick is that it's missing a You received this mail because ...., because currently they might be cherrypicking users likely to have a positive experience (e.g. active, not many closed/downvoted posts).
    – Erik A
    Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 17:17
  • 5
    Relatively common practice, slimey, but normal for businesses like SO. From what i've seen of G2, it's built specifically around this practice.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 17:40
  • 10
    did you need to include the name of the person that sent you the mail? :/ Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 17:46
  • 8
    Profit or integrity: pick one. Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 18:07
  • 55
    If you do feel strongly about this, it would seem you do have the option of leaving a 1-star review saying "Whatever my other feelings about Stack Overflow for Teams, my experience was soured by the platform offering me money to leave a review here, which I felt was unethical", and then collect your $25 for doing so. Which, I suppose, mitigates the extent to which it's ethically problematic in the first place.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 19:10
  • 80
    "However, I would expect better from SO." Based on what? Have you been here for the past year? Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 19:40
  • 5
    @MarkAmery "Whatever my other feelings about Stack Overflow for Teams, my experience was soured by the platform offering me money to leave a review here, which I felt was unethical and will never accept any money from them or henceforth visit this website which accepts such bought reviews any more time, indeed it has been blacklisted this very moment. Good day Sirs and Madams." Added a bit to make it more authentic. Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 20:09
  • 15
    The "Amazon gift card" part reminded me of Please don't share my e-mail with Amazon without my express consent
    – KevinG
    Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 23:01
  • 6
    It sounds like G2 states in their guidelines that G2 will occasionally offer incentives for honest reviews to help us gather a full and accurate data set.. Here it seems like G2 reserves the right to provide incentives for reviews of services, but that doesn't say anything about the service provider under review being allowed to offer incentives. In any case, whether G2 allows it or now, bribing for reviews is spammy and scammy and we can all see it for what it is.
    – J...
    Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 15:56

6 Answers 6

34

Thanks for this feedback, and great question. We've passed it along to the Marketing Team who have provided these additional details:

We sent an email to admins of the Basic tier of our paid product, Stack Overflow for Teams, asking them to review their experience. At the guidance of G2 Crowd, we offered an incentive to our customers in exchange for an honest review. It's common practice to offer an incentive for a review on G2 Crowd, similar to participating in a panel or survey.

Admittedly, we realize that we can be more clear in the email invitation about the purpose of the incentive. We expect our customers to provide honest and helpful (positive or negative) feedback for the G2 community and other prospective customers that are thinking of purchasing Stack Overflow for Teams. In no way do we offer incentives for false or positive reviews of our product.

We really appreciate knowing how our customers feel about Teams - while people may be aware of platforms like Yelp for restaurants and shops or Amazon for products, they may not be aware of where they can leave feedback about a B2B product like Stack Overflow for Teams, so we thought this was a good opportunity to share G2 with our customers so they know there's a place to voice their thoughts where we're listening for their feedback.

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    "so they know there's a place to voice their thoughts where we're listening for their feedback". If only there were some other place where StackOverflow could listen for feedback... :P Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 9:14
  • 88
    Just a small feedback for your marketing team, without going into discussion whether asking for reviews + offering gift is a good or bad move. SE network across all sites, SO included has users that are among most intelligent people on the planet. In that light it would be nice if SE would stop insulting our intelligence. You don't want feedback, you want good reviews (hoping for) to improve sales of your products. Nothing wrong with that, but pretending that things are what they are not is not going to get you far and will only backfire.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 12:01
  • 15
    @DalijaPrasnikar I can understand your feelings and - yes, that's why many companies, including us, want reviews - so that others can find the products and consider them for use. That doesn't mean it's the only reason we're doing it. The Teams team is very interested in improving the Teams product by understanding where users are hitting rough patches and fixing them. That's why the Articles feature exists now and why that feature has a rich text editor - we're addressing shortcomings in the product that we wouldn't necessarily know about if users didn't speak up.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 13:20
  • 5
    And I think the middle paragraph here specifically states that we're looking for reviews for potential customers. ""We expect our customers to provide honest and helpful (positive or negative) feedback for the G2 community and other prospective customers that are thinking of purchasing Stack Overflow for Teams." We think it's a great product and use it internally every day and get lots of positive feedback directly from customers in 1-1 sessions, so if you take that framing in mind, I think it's easy to see that we generally expect feedback to be good.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 13:22
  • 7
    @DaveyDaveDave For y'all, that's easy - you know and use MSO regularly. And we look at feedback here all the time, too. But it's not a review site where people can share their general thoughts. Plus, many of our customers aren't aware of MSO. We don't use it as a primary reporting site other than for people who already know about it or happen to stumble upon it.... and it seems like some would prefer it that way. I remember when Teams first launched, there was a bunch of frustration about Teams questions taking up space here. That's subsided but... it still leaves us looking for other options.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 13:28
  • @Catija, yeah, I do get that, it was just too easy a jab to pass up. Hopefully the :P showed that it wasn't meant as a totally serious remark. Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 13:46
  • 10
    So what is 'G2'? Never heard of it. Are they big in some field?
    – ouflak
    Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 13:55
  • 1
    @ouflak I hadn't heard of them prior to this but when I poked around, it seems that they're a site that helps businesses find software that they can use and see reviews about the software from people who are users. It all seems to be categorized based on what the software does. Their landing page has some info that may be more helpful than I can provide in a comment. :D
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 15:55
  • 4
    "Great question" !? Please spare us that. (You can always upvote.) -- What astonishes (and worries) me is that the Director of Community did not know of this marketing move, or at least not about the details. Campaigns like this one should be discussed beforehand not only with the Director but with members of the community itself, in order to preempt misunderstandings and alienation. Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 16:39
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    @Peter-ReinstateMonica The Director of Community directs, well, Community. Not Teams. You seem to be confusing a few different things. Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 17:00
  • 16
    I find it disappointing that the Marketing Team didn't bother to respond here themselves. It makes it look like they don't want to have a discussion about the message they provided, or about the original question. It doesn't go with the "we value feedback" stance of said message.
    – KevinG
    Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 17:31
  • 1
    @Catija It is the last sentence (paragraph) that screams "marketing insincerity". This would be so much better response without that part. "We really appreciate knowing how our customers feel about Teams" - part was good, but the rest of the sentence...
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 18:05
  • 2
    Not sure what you guys on about, SO is now a company, in here to make money by sharing your knowledge (which they get for free), because you give it for free, well not for free, they give you badges and rep points .. so why you complaining?
    – Veljko89
    Commented Sep 12, 2020 at 11:30
  • 3
    "Trying to boost our reviews" while you "expect our customers to provide honest and helpful feedback". Teams, if you want to boost your authentic positive reviews, just make a better product people actually want.
    – Litty
    Commented Sep 13, 2020 at 10:18
77

I don't think this is that bad. They aren't saying the review has to be positive. I think that most people who leave online reviews have either had a very positive or very negative experience, so those in the middle need some incentivization or they just won't bother.

I'd be interested to see if there's any data as to whether financially soliciting a review disproportionately makes the review more positive (or less!).

They can't exactly reward people with a free month of Teams, because people who hated it won't want that. At least gift cards appeal equally, regardless of thoughts on the product

It is clearly listed next to each review that they were solicited to post it, so the process is transparent.

Teams review with vendor invitation notice.

Reviews for Teams on G2.

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    So, they're essentially paying for feedback (which is fine) on a service where readers may not expect this (a conscientious reviewer should disclose the compensation). Ok, fine. BUT: there's no actual guarantee that you get paid for your work: if your review ends up being #21, you're out of luck. That's a bit dodgy.
    – Shog9
    Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 17:14
  • 6
    @Shog9 Maybe I've become desensitized to it, but you see this all the time on YouTube ("First 100 users to sign up get 20% off..."). I guess it increases the urgency, and makes it a bit more like a competition - only the fastest "win" - which plays into their hands of getting more people to do it. But at the same time they also need some way to put an upper limit on how much they spend on reviews. Maybe a fairer way to achieve that would be to send to a small number of users at a time, with an expiration date on the offer, but I can see why they did it their way too.
    – Michael
    Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 17:19
  • 14
    @njzk2 gift cards are money, just less convenient than govt issued currency
    – Michael
    Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 17:20
  • 1
    Happens all the time on Amazon for reviews too, @michael. Sometimes it isn't shady; a lot of the time it is, and we all suffer as a result.
    – Shog9
    Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 17:22
  • 2
    Reviewers here profit from reviewing. The least they would have to do (morally) is declare any financial interest. Something like "I might profit financially from doing this review." This would generate a lot of trust in that review. Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 17:29
  • 1
    @Trilarion If I were writing one, I'd personally consider that highly visible button to be enough disclosure. And anyway, did you read them all to make sure they weren't doing that?
    – Michael
    Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 17:37
  • 1
    @Michael By that logic I assume you wouldn't mind receiving your next paycheck as conch shells?
    – njzk2
    Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 17:38
  • @Michael No I did not check, just pointing out that they should. If they do, I would probably not trust their reviews much, if they don't, they would make it wrong. All in all not much point in paid reviewing, I think. But you're right. That button is already a big hint. Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 17:46
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    @njzk2 No. Money is something that is "generally accepted". Of course you can debate the degree to which an Amazon giftcard is "generally accepted", but not only can I redeem it for a few million different products, I can fairly easily trade an Amazon giftcard for its equivalent value in my local currency. Although it was hyperbole, conch shells are not in any way comparable.
    – Michael
    Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 17:46
  • @Trilarion I'd like it if you could filter those reviews out, but I fear that if you could then there'd be none left. :)
    – Michael
    Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 17:56
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    You can pay me for my honest review. My honest review will be impacted by this program to pay for a review though. Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 20:47
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    @Shog9 There's no guarantee that the company asking for reviews actually gives out any rewards at all. Remember, they're the only party who knows who the first 20 reviewers are - all they need to do is not tell those people that they're "winners", and boom, no need to hand out any prizes. Not implying this is what has happened here, but it's easy to do and difficult to prove.
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 10:59
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    It seems like a lot of people here are unaware of common business marketing practices and expect SO to have completely re-written the book.
    – Matt K
    Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 16:17
  • 2
    No, we're painfully aware of them, @mattk
    – Shog9
    Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 20:29
  • 1
    @MattK I'm aware of it, but I don't like arguments of type "everyone else is doing it too" much. I think that everyone should have its own moral compass. Hiding behind others doesn't work. What you do defines who you are, generally speaking. That doesn't mean that it wouldn't be hypocritical to only condemn SO for these practices. Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 20:48
34

Why is Stack Overflow sending out emails paying for reviews on a service?

Stack Overflow is actively pursuing all aspects of revenue generation, including the use of marketing tactics to increase its overall footprint.

This is general business practice, being employed by a company clearly preparing to go public.

It shouldn't surprise anyone, but just to be clear, this company is taking actions with a shareholders-first mentality.

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    And stakeholders ain't the community :sadface:
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 23:43
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    Very true Braiam. In fact, as you are also well aware, most employees aren't either. A stark difference to where the company's roots come from.
    – Travis J
    Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 23:45
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    I was intrigued by your "clearly preparing to go public" assessment, and it turns out they've actually said as much quite recently.
    – Michael
    Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 0:17
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    Nitpick, perhaps a cultural difference, but in the UK "stakeholders" means anybody with a 'stake' of any sort in the organisation, which certainly does include the community and employees - we all have something to gain/lose. "Shareholders" however are the people who specifically stand to gain/lose according to the share price and is who I suspect you're referring to. Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 9:12
  • 5
    Have edited this answer to say "shareholders" as opposed to "stakeholders", because it (unfortunately) is the more truthful statement.
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 11:01
  • @DaveyDaveDave: AFAIK, "stakeholders" originally meant someone chosen to hold the money that is risked by people on a race or competition, and to give all of it to the winner. So, someone independent, with no stake at all in the organization. I find it unfortunate that the current usage has the opposite meaning. Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 20:59
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    @Michael: You might be interested by this interview of StackOverflow's founder youtu.be/zMfxd9y0cMY?t=1578 It's 1h long but there's all the info you need about SE's plans, and then some. Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 21:19
  • @EricDuminil - that's very interesting, thank you. Commented Sep 12, 2020 at 6:01
4

I am torn on this, as on the one hand, I like that they are offering payment for your time. Many solicitations like this, just want you to do a review and offer nothing in return.

On the other hand, I don’t like Stack Exchange employees trying to pay for reviews. If they want to bring attention to G2 site, maybe they can put it on the Overflow Blog. I don’t expect I would ever get one of these solicitations, but if I did, I would go on and give a negative review, then see if the $25 is still offered. Also, as someone mentioned, there is this:

We’ll send the first 20 reviewers of Stack Overflow for Teams a $25 Amazon gift card

If you do the review, you could be number 21 and get nothing. It would be better to say, "$25 card to anyone who reviews by September 30", or something. The way they are doing it is pretty underhanded, as they are basically getting free reviews for everything after the 20th.

Someone in the comments mentioned that my "September 30" suggestion would introduce unlimited risk. However this is not the case, as a limit does exist. As only the people that have been emailed would be able to claim the offer. So as long as they keep the number of offers under control, then no issue would arise from unlimited risk.

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    Problem with "$25 card to anyone who reviews by September 31" is that it's unlimited risk. What if 1000 people do it? 10k? This way they cap their marketing budget at 500 up-front. Of course, there are other ways to achieve that, I'm just saying I can see why they didn't choose that option.
    – Michael
    Commented Sep 10, 2020 at 22:18
  • 3
    interesting idea wrt negative review, a while ago something similar was proposed in Why was this community nominated for a “Webby” award, and why am I compelled to care?
    – gnat
    Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 11:02
  • 3
    G2 is one of the slimiest sites I've been to on the web lately. They make an overt grab for as much of your personal data as they can get and I will never use their site again.
    – boatcoder
    Commented Sep 11, 2020 at 20:34
  • @Michael "What if 1000 people do it? 10k?" - $25k (or even $250k) is a drop in the bucket as far as SE is concerned. Granted at some point that ceases to be the case, but the underlying premise should be that SE expects a review on G2 to be worth more than $25 in future revenue (otherwise the exercise is pointless at any number of reviews). So long as that holds, any number of reviews can be (justifiably, business-wise) paid for. Problem is it probably follows an exponential decay; first review is worth a lot, 10th a bit less, 100th even less, and 1000th+ almost nothing.
    – aroth
    Commented Sep 13, 2020 at 10:38
  • @aroth 1k may be a “drop in the bucket” (250k certainly isn’t), but it’s going to be a significant dent in the marketing budget either way. Remember: this is asking for reviews on one site: the reach is never going to be massive. SE doesn’t expect a review to be worth more than $25; they expect 25+ (maybe, say, 200) reviews to be worth more than $500. It’s highly unlikely that 1000 reviews is worth $25,000 - there will be diminishing returns fairly rapidly. They can’t start dropping fractions of millions on a small amount of marketing!
    – Tim
    Commented Sep 20, 2020 at 0:28
  • "1k may be a “drop in the bucket” (250k certainly isn’t)" - We'll probably have to agree to disagree on that. $250k is less than the annual cost of two developers. SE is estimated to have ~250 employees (not all or even most of whom will be developers, granted), so we're talking about less than 1% of their annual operating costs. Or well under 1% of their estimated annual revenue (~$60M). It's far from a make or break proposition for an organization of their size. Since the promo is driven by direct e-mail to Teams users, SE probably has a good grasp on the maximum possible uptake, too.
    – aroth
    Commented Sep 20, 2020 at 2:06
1

I got one of these emails back in May. It didn't seem worth doing since:

  • There was only a chance I'd get gift card.
  • $25 is an order of magnitude less than what I've been paid to write articles in the past. (In fairness, a review is much shorter than commissioned blog posts.)
  • I was in a strange headspace with Stack Overflow so I wasn't sure I could be objective.

After seeing this question, I wrote a review and I got $25 to spend on Amazon. It was informed by my own experience and talking with people at my current job about their experiences with Stack Overflow for Teams before I arrived. In my opinion, I gave helpful consumer advice that was unswayed by the compensation.

Now, I'm always squeamish about extrinsic motivation. It's a recipe for mediocrity. I'm also uncomfortable with the thought that some people might write a review in hopes of getting a gift card and not end up getting one. (I'm doubly uncomfortable since it seems my review reduced the pool by one.) That said, it does seem sensible to ask existing customers to review the product and it can be hard to encourage them to take the time. If offering $25 does the trick (and the reward is given), I'm not sure there's much harm. It's not dissimilar from why I sometimes answer a question on the site: to get that sweet, sweet reputation.

0

I have to say I see nothing wrong with this. Nothing at all.

They are asking for reviews; and offering an incentive to the early reviewers. If they were paying for every single review, it might be fine to raise eyebrows; but paying the first 20, a fee as little as $20 does not sound like a big deal at all. One could argue they are paying for the quickness of the review, rather than the review itself.

I notice a tendency to hold SO to a standard that may be a little too idealistic. They sure aren't perfect but for a community based service, they could do a lot worse. I would say they do much better than many somewhat similar companies that we still patronize. Bear in mind that they too are a company that should turn a profit.

They aren't perfect, but IMHO, they sure aren't bad ... Yet ;)

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