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Recently, a question of mine has been closed as "opinion-based".

I wholeheartedly disagree what that sentiment, but I don't want to discuss about that. The only important thing to know here is that, in my eyes, the question is not opinion-based.

Since the question was closed, there is an info box at the top, which reads as follows: "Closed. This question is opinion-based. It is not currently accepting answers. [...] (Private feedback for you)"

I think that sounds very rude. Not only does the one-word sentence in front sound strangely harsh. The sentence thereafter says "This question is opinion-based." which implies a fact, when it's actually the result of 3 subjective opinions.

It is especially confusing to me that we use this definitive phrasing for a statement that we know is exclusively shown to one person, and we already know this person is more likely to disagree with it than the average user (assuming the result of a close-voting reflects the average user's perception).

A much nicer way to say the same would be "This question is currently closed because it appears to be [opinion-based|off-topic|too broad|...]".

I've been around SO long enough to not be disheartened by the site basically saying "You definitely did something wrong." instead of "It looks like you did something wrong." But I've heard and read so much about how new users are scared to participate. And I feel this sentence will give a strong negative impression for new users who might not agree with "the established community" about their question being opinion-based/off-topic/too broad/etc.

I think we can find a choice of words that is easier on the one who reads them and might disagree.

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  • I don't know about the "closed-questions" tag; I'd like to add "wording" or "feedback-message" or "banner" or something, but those tags don't exist.
    – LWChris
    Sep 1, 2020 at 21:32
  • 11
    Just to clarify, the "This question is opinion-based" is displayed to everyone who can cast a reopen vote on it (which also happen to be the same people capable of closing it.)
    – Kevin B
    Sep 1, 2020 at 21:34
  • 18
    when actually just 3 more-or-less random people --> they are not random users but users who read the question and are trusted enough to judge and vote to close a question. You can always disagree and you have a reopen vote Sep 1, 2020 at 21:43
  • 2
    If a moderator closed the post, sometimes they give feedback to you. In the case they don't, then that means there's no text underneath it, like in your case. And the people who closed aren't random people. They are people who have enough reputation to think what questions can be on the site and what can't.
    – 10 Rep
    Sep 1, 2020 at 21:43
  • @TemaniAfif They are "random" in a sense that they have not been assigned to look at this question, and people who don't think alike have not clicked the button. Ten people judge, three vote close.
    – LWChris
    Sep 1, 2020 at 21:46
  • 2
    @KevinB Interesting. So the "Private feedback for you" is just referring to the part below the line? It's really not clear from the design then.
    – LWChris
    Sep 1, 2020 at 21:49
  • 17
    the way you said it is also a bit rude. It's like 3 random user went to the question and clicked the button randomly so their opinion should not be considered. Sep 1, 2020 at 21:49
  • 4
    3 other people can choose to undo it, too. it's not one-sided. If you follow the directions by submitting an edit clarifying the question or making improvements that would make it seem less opinion based, it would be moved to the reopen queue where people will be directed to it to review it.
    – Kevin B
    Sep 1, 2020 at 21:54
  • @TemaniAfif I didn't write that at all. I wrote: they are "more-or-less random people" (which is true, they are essentially any three out of any X who can vote) with a subjective opinion they have expressed (which is the opposite of clicking the button randomly), which is then (and that I object to) presented in words that are usually used to state facts. I'm also not at all saying their votes shouldn't be considered/represented. It's the choice of words SO chooses to show to me that feels weird, not the action itself.
    – LWChris
    Sep 1, 2020 at 21:59
  • @TemaniAfif Better now? :)
    – LWChris
    Sep 1, 2020 at 22:06
  • 4
    like you said in your last comment, it's a matter of words. You had an interpretation for SO the same way I did for your question but the intention was different ;) saying that the question is opinion based should be the correct format IMHO. If it was it appears to be it's like the 3 users were not really sure about their choice. If I close a question as duplicate, I don't want to see it appears to be a duplicate, I want to see it's a duplicate because I was sure it's a duplicate. If you disagree you can edit to clarify and vote to reopen. Sep 1, 2020 at 22:22
  • For duplicate votes, yes. A duplicate vote is always constructive, it suggests considering the other question. As a user, I have a chance to clarify what is different about my question. But for the close-reasons I mentioned, it's different. E. g. I cannot edit the question I mentioned for it to be not "opinion-based", because I think it already wasn't opinion based when it was closed for that.
    – LWChris
    Sep 1, 2020 at 22:28
  • While the vote are subjective (doesn't mean they are wrong/right). The systeme hold no subjectivity. If N peoples votes that the dress is blue. The system register the dress as blue. Then you are presented with a private notice : "It's blue." There is no subjectivity possible here. MR.XYZ is the new president or is not. Not 75% thinks MR.XYZ is the new president and 20% thinks it's MR.FOO. "It's possible that your president might be, possibly, MR XYZ." I understand that 3 votes is not a lot. But modification will push it into re-open queue. Sep 2, 2020 at 7:11
  • I think the main issue cames from the reception of the feed back. Negative feed back doesn't mean you are wrong. "You definitely did something wrong.", naa it's just the question. The only "You definitely did something wrong." is audit/ review ban/ asking ban. Sep 2, 2020 at 7:14
  • @xdtTransform Your example confirms my point. The system is exactly not as you describe it. MR.FOO can't be elected, and MR.XYZ just needed any 3 votes to be elected. Even if the result was 20% MR.XYZ and 75% MR.FOO, it would say "MR.XYZ is the peoples favorite". The system doesn't have a ballot with "XYZ" vs "FOO". It has a ballot with just "XYZ". If 3 or more people vote at all, MR.XYZ wins over MR.FOO and the Media says "The people want MR.XYZ". Everyone who didn't think so and thus didn't vote will disagree. Therefore it should say "Enough people wanted MR.XYZ".
    – LWChris
    Sep 2, 2020 at 8:14

3 Answers 3

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No.

Curtness is not the same as rudeness.

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  • That I agree with, but it's so easy to be friendly instead of curt - why not do that? Google showed "Did you mean: X?" instead of "You mistyped X." for a reason.
    – LWChris
    Sep 1, 2020 at 22:02
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    @LWChris Google is often wrong. If you're not wrong, there's nothing wrong with pointing out exactly what the problem is instead of feigning uncertainty.
    – Davy M
    Sep 1, 2020 at 22:10
  • @DavyM In the spirit of this answer: "Chosing words that acknowledge subjectivity is not the same as feigning uncertainty."
    – LWChris
    Sep 1, 2020 at 22:20
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    evaluating a question as opinion-based is not (at least not necessarily) subjective ;)
    – kleopatra
    Sep 2, 2020 at 4:08
14

We can't please everyone.

What we have learned the past few years of this platform is that there will always be something that someone will feel is rude or offensive. If it's not an unrelated listing of hot network questions, it's someone feeling slapped by downvotes, close votes, and comments providing feedback. Many of us have adjusted their comments to be lighter and friendlier, but they are still victims of lash-outs and harassment. Some have even given up on providing feedback entirely.

This particular form of feedback has been subjected to several noticeable changes over the years, one of which was not very long ago. The goals are the usual: to improve clarity, iterate on useful closure reasons, and ameliorate the perception towards closure. And yet, people still complain. No adjustment to this particular headline will solve all potential bad feelings towards it.

Please adjust your expectations.

We can't just have the freedom to feel offended by any encoded message on the platform. That simply violates the basic principle of assuming good intentions first and foremost, for a message which only means to convey a neutral message. In this case, that the question was closed due to being primarily opinion-based. The platform has grounds and well established guidelines for reassessing the state of the question. It's better work with that instead of against that.

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  • 1
    I understand that "We can't please everyone." Especially not the user-generated content like comments. But this is a system message. A one-time change for the better helps everyone, everywhere, every time. It's the lowest any fruit can hang.
    – LWChris
    Sep 2, 2020 at 8:29
  • "In this case, that the question was closed due to being primarily opinion-based." - And that is my problem right there. My question goes "I always code it this way, but I could also code it that way. [... Would that way] help/hurt/make any difference?" and then continues "Does it for example introduce additional type checks every time the member is accessed?" I do not see how this is "opinion-based". "Does it introduce type checks?" is not asking for an opinion. Therefore, I really don't know what I could do to make this question not opinion-based, because in my eyes, it already wasn't.
    – LWChris
    Sep 2, 2020 at 8:36
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    Sounds like you could have sought guidance specifically on why the question was considered opinion-based and what could be done about it. The poor boilerplate message is not to blame, is it? ;)
    – E_net4
    Sep 2, 2020 at 8:54
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    No. I got two answers that contain the information I was looking for (It does cause overhead because of ... + a link to a benchmark that measured the overhead). So I got my answers, upvoted both and accepted the one that helped me more. Frankly, I don't care about the rest. But the fact that I got two fact-based answers in reply to my question confirms my feeling that the question indeed wasn't opinion-based. The text acting as if it was feels unjust. That doesn't bug me now, but I know that the current choice of words would have made me dislike SO if that had been my first question.
    – LWChris
    Sep 2, 2020 at 9:42
  • Side note: It turned out that the overhead exists, but in everyday use cases is so small that it doesn't really matter. So the answer is technically "It does make a difference in performance, however not enough to not decide based on your preference." That's the only "opinion-based" part about the topic. Yet that's just the consequence of the lack of reasons to always chose the one way or the other. The absence of meaningful, factually provable performance or usability drawbacks is not the question's fault, IMO.
    – LWChris
    Sep 2, 2020 at 9:49
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    I'm afraid that you are barking at the wrong tree now. Depositing two large comments talking about the closed question seems to suggest that this is indeed the culprit, and that you actually care more about it than you have previously suggested. :)
    – E_net4
    Sep 2, 2020 at 10:03
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    I deliberately removed the link to the question from a first draft before I posted this question on meta, because I really don't care about that question in particular. I mention it now because it is my reason why I do not agree with "If the voting said it is opinion-based, then it objectively is." Basically, I'm suggesting to switch from words implying "You asked the wrong question." to words implying "You asked the question the wrong way."
    – LWChris
    Sep 2, 2020 at 11:46
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I get where you are coming from, but a line has to be drawn.

If the site would say “You are an idiot for posting this”, that would definitely need to be changed. It attacks the person and is 100% rude. Nobody would deny that.

But a message stating that a question is opinionated — that refers to the content only, it does not refer to a person. And let’s be honest here: it’s a very tame message. It doesn’t even state that the question is bad, just that it’s asking for opinions which would be a perfectly fine question to post on a different site. If the author of such content takes it personally because it is presented in the same way a fact would be presented and they choose to act on that, they will basically be crying wolf.

Nothing of what I just said is a reason to keep the message the way it is; it can easily be changed to the example you gave. Yet, I am willing to bet dollars to donuts that it will still be considered rude by some. It’s not the message, it’s the act itself. It was closed as opinionated, how rude.

The scrutiny of others is a hefty thing to have to deal with.

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