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I flagged for a moderator to delete this post with the following custom message:

This is the correct answer to a different question. This question is pertaining to php not js. This answer should be removed -- not because the advice doesn't translate, but because an earlier answer in php has already been provided and you shouldn't be able to earn php-tag points by posting a js answer. Please remove -- the user won't mind because the account is deleted!

In other words, the js answer provides insights that are already clearly available in the OP's self-answer.

The response from a moderator was:

declined - This answer is contemporary to the question and is not inaccurate enough to remove

The question is "How do the PHP equality (== double equals) and identity (=== triple equals) comparison operators differ?"

Please vote on this question if you support/reject my justification. If you disagree, please post an answer that explains why you support the moderator's decision and how Stack Overflow benefits from retaining this redundant answer (which only explains the difference between an integer and a string with the same value -- a mere fragment of what the OP's self-answer already explained).

p.s. I don't feel hard-done-by since my other 10 post flags on the page were deemed helpful resulting in the deletion of lots of redundant content -- a super big win for researchers on a very bloated page. I fully appreciate the attention and actions of the moderator involved. The goal of this meta post is to hopefully garner sufficient community support to encourage the deletion of the post.

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    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been archived in chat. 21 comments, and yet not a single answer so far: if you have an opinion you want to share, post an answer.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 6:51
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    It's an attempt to answer, even if it's wrong. That's not reason to delete. See ^
    – ivarni
    Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 7:13
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    OP didn't flag it with a NAA flag. He used a custom mod flag.
    – 41686d6564
    Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 7:16
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    Remove all of the argument about js versus php in this debate. The fact is that the OP's self-answer ALREADY gave insights on the difference between comparing a string and an integer of the same value. The cold hard truth is that this flagged answer is just as much a redundant page bloating answer as the other 10 answers deleted at the same time by the same moderator. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 7:26
  • @Polygnome I have declined your recommended duplicate because that page makes no mention of the deletion of redundant content. The whole point of flagging the 11 answers is that the researcher UX is damaged when they have to read redundant insights. The page is just as informative with the js answer removed. The js answer adds no new value to the page. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 7:31
  • @mickmackusa Being redundant has never been a criterion for deletion.
    – Polygnome
    Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 7:33
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    The other 10 answers were deleted by the moderator because they were redundant answers that add no value to the page -- this is good content curation. @Polygnome Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 7:35
  • @mickmackusa Content curation is done by the community via votes. close votes and flags are not super-downvotes. By default, answers are sorted by votes, so the most useful ones go to the top.
    – Polygnome
    Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 7:36
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    The answer should have been "curated" when it was posted, but it wasn't. Its day of reckoning is better late than never. By effect, this redundant post will only promote bad posting practices as a matter of bad role modelling. There aren't enough people to care about curation compared to the people that simply upvote because an answer "was useful". Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 7:38
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    Dear readers, please stop piling on the support for the NAA dupe. This dupe answer does not relate to the curation that I am doing. The js answer does answer the question -- it just isn't adding any new, valuable information versus the OP's self-answer. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 8:12
  • My question is in the same category of meta.stackoverflow.com/q/369297/2943403 but there is a different rationale behind the deletion. Diamond moderators are exception handlers -- they are well-equipped to handle these exceptions when bad content has enjoyed the snowball effect of upvotes and is rightfully exterminated for the benefit of future researchers. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 8:43
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    Please don't assume people "don't care" just because they disagree with you.
    – ivarni
    Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 9:04
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    That is not at all what I said @ivarni The truth is that the number of people who know enough and care enough to curate are woefully outnumbered by the folk that don't know/care enough. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 9:05
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    FI: There are currently 26 answers to that question (incl. deleted answers). Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 18:30
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    "you shouldn't be able to earn php-tag points by posting a js answer. Please remove -- the user won't mind because the account is deleted!". The user is not earning anything because the account is deleted :^)
    – Tom
    Commented Aug 20, 2020 at 7:18

6 Answers 6

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I declined the flag. The other answers you flagged were "late retreads". Someone came along later and posted an answer that just reiterated a top or accepted answer without adding anything new. It's very common on old canonical answers like this one, and it contributes to noise. I'm fine in cleaning those out.

The problem with this answer is it's not late. It was posted 30 mins after the question was asked nearly 12 years ago. Since it's not late, we can't apply that same rule. You seemed to catch on that one too, since your flag raised two arguments to skirt it. You ended with the weaker of the two, which was

Please remove -- the user won't mind because the account is deleted!

The deletion of their account is irrelevant to the usefulness of the answer. That leaves the meat of your other argument

This question is pertaining to php not js. This answer should be removed -- not because the advice doesn't translate, but because an earlier answer in php has already been provided and you shouldn't be able to earn php-tag points by posting a js answer.

This isn't a great answer by any stretch. They are, indeed, providing a JS answer to PHP. But then you proceed to admit something important here: the advice translates. You then twist slightly to make it a complaint about not getting PHP points for a JS answer, which I don't find all that compelling (especially in light of your point about the account being deleted).

The point the answer is trying to make (rather poorly, but it gets across anyways) is that PHP and JS are both weakly typed languages that offer the identical operator (===) to prevent type coercion. If you're coming at this from a JS background, it might help make sense, and 44 people found that helpful. That means this is indeed an answer to the question since PHP and JS work the same way here. If you don't find that helpful, downvote and comment (which you have done the latter, and probably the former already).

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    Also, the revision history shows that it was posted after the OP added the JavaScript tag, stating it applies to JavaScript as well.
    – user2285236
    Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 12:46
  • Okay, I'll be sure to make my flag messages more to the point about redundancy. The js answer's insights are redundant because the OP's self-answer already states the difference (in the very comprehensive table graphic) when comparing a string type value and an integer type value. The case remains that the advice is redundant. Since this was a self-answer, the answer was instantly posted -- there is no excuse for not reading it before posting a new answer. Had the js answerer read the OP's answer, it would have been clear that this insight was already made. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 12:53
  • @Machavity Regarding your last paragraph and since the question also were tagged javascript once (at the time the answer were provided), do you think it would make sense to adding the javascript tag back and change the question so that it covers javascript back again? Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 13:26
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    @RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio No. While there is some similarity of function here, Javascript has its own canonical and the OP's self answer heavily references PHP type coercion rules, which are similar, but not identical to, JS type coercion rules
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 13:33
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    @mickmackusa, I think you may feel better if you read this answer as: "I agree with you that the answer is redundant, and the process to remove it would be to first downvote the answer until it reaches reasonably low threshold, then we can remove it. At it current state, we cannot remove it, since it has considerable number of upvotes." That's how I read the actual implication of all the answers here.
    – justhalf
    Commented Aug 20, 2020 at 4:15
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You missed important information.

At the time the post you flagged was added, the question were tagged by the OP, too.

The reason of the OP at the second revision: "this applies equally to javascript" at the 17th September 2008, which perhaps was wrong, but that's how it was.

Exactly one year later at the 16th September 2009, the tag was removed by another user with the explanation "there are differences between php and javascript" as you can see at the fourth revision in the revision history.

So, the post gave an answer to the part of the question at that point of time (for one entire year).

IMHO, the answer is appropriate to persist, although it currently in 2020 does not answer the question, because it gave an answer to the OP at that point of time and maybe even until nowadays and that weighs for me more than the demand to remove it.

So, I would say the decline of the flag as well as the reason of the decline is correct IMHO.

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  • Yes, we have discussed these truths in the comments archived by Cody. The onus of the "moving target question" is on the OP for adding the javascript tag 30 minutes later. The victim being the js answerer. Now the answer represents a confusing occurrence for users who might begin to believe that an answer can be posted in any language regardless of what is tagged on the question. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 12:55
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    @mickmackusa The problem is your current question deals with the reasoning of a flag decline. But I can see your thoughts through. You want to ask whether it is appropriate and beneficial for SO and anyone else to keep such non-fitting answers alive or alive at the wrong place. I think you should ask a separate question for that to maybe change something at the policies, guidelines etc. and not mix it into the reasoning for a specific flag decline. You can bring your declined flag as example but focus your mind on the bigger aim. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 13:10
  • @mickmackusa Doing such task to delete an answer is a heavy and maybe controversial task which need to be discussed before by the whole community here on Meta. You can't just demand a moderator to do that in an instant without any feedback. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 13:17
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Moderators are not expected to have any domain knowledge. They actions should be based on CoC and rules about what is on topic. Rating content usefulness is done by community with voting. If this does not work in some cases we can either think of some improvements in content rating or just live with this. Asking diamond moderators to deal with such cases just does not scale. It's not their task.

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  • My point is not about usefulness -- it is about redundancy. The moderator that handled my flag DID have sufficient knowledge in the domain to assess the quality of the content (question and answers). I am not going to idly stand by and watch Stack Overflow deteriorate. I am a moderator too (on a different site). I care very much about the Stack Exchange Network because it is the biggest contributing source of my IT knowledge (I am a self-taught developer). I will continue to give back to the best of my abilities as an expression of my gratefulness. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 9:01
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    It is not too much to ask of answerers to only post an answer when they have something new and valuable to add to the page. Anything else is pure noise. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 9:02
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Flags are not supposed to be used to ask moderators to remove content we disagree with. We have downvotes for that purpose. We should only flag to bring moderators' attention to something that requires their action. Redundant or incorrect information is not something they should be made aware of. Unless you think that someone copied an existing answer and posted it again, which you can then flag.

About this answer in particular

This answer was posted as the third answer to that question and initially, the question was asking about both PHP and JavaScript. While OP gave an answer for PHP, this was the second-best answer which also addressed how this operator works in JavaScript.

Before the merger of questions and before the accepted answer was rewritten in 2016 this JavaScript answer was really useful. It was an answer to the question and didn't deserve to be deleted then. The comment under that answer seems to support such claim:

Upvoted, as this seems to be exactly the same situation for php. – David Thomas Aug 17 '09 at 13:40

Should this answer be deleted now?

I do not think so. While I don't think it has any value anymore, I am not keen on removing answers just because they are outdated or not the best. It is still an answer. Explaining concepts in one language by comparing them in others can be helpful to understand it for beginners. But...

The same information has been covered over the years by newer answers or edits to existing answers, so this answer has lost its value. Deleting it would not harm the website. What we can do is downvote the answer and watch its score over time. If the answer keeps on gathering more and more downvotes it would mean that it has truly become an unhelpful noise and can be safely removed. If the score increases it means that some people still find it useful to see the comparison to JavaScript.

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    "Flags are not supposed to be used to ask moderators to remove content we disagree with." This isn't a matter of disagreeing with the answer. It is a redundant answer. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 14:01
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    @mickmackusa Again: Downvote if you want, but deleting the answer is not the appropriate action. It's still useful, as Dharman said.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 16:04
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    I have DV'ed the answer because it's not useful. The answerer did not read the OP's self-answer which was available as soon as the question was -- the self-answer already explained everything that is in the js answer. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 16:06
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    "Redundant or incorrect information is not something they should be made aware of." This turns out to not be entirely true. I was told in SOCVR by a moderator that it is perfectly valid to mod-flag a redundant answer and that it is imperative to be specific about the redundancy. On the day, I mod-flagged 11 answers on that page that I felt were redundant -- the moderator agreed with 10 of those 11. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 16:10
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If an answer is wrong, downvote it. That is what downvotes are for.

Flags, close votes and delete votes are not super downvotes and should not replace the normal quality control mechanism of the site.

The answer you flagged has a score of +44, indicating that a significant part of the community finds this answer helpful.

While you used a custom flag, the following is still applicable:

When to flag an answer as "not an answer"?

NAA flags are for things that really don't even try to answer a question. This answer isn't a new question, isn't thanking other people, isn't a comment, isn't link-only. Its an attempt to share insight. And judging by the votes on it, enough people find this insight helpful.

So NAA isn't the proper flag. But your custom flag fails to make the point why this answer needs to go. Just because you do not think its adds value? Then downvote and it goes down.

Here is a related Q&A on Meta WB:

https://worldbuilding.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/4927/flags-and-close-votes-are-not-super-downvotes/4930?noredirect=1

Especially, please don't use flags to try to delete answers that are wrong answers. Downvote those (and consider helping to improve them). Use flags for things that don't even answer the question, or that are spam or abusive.

The same applies to Stack Overflow. Just because you think the answer is bad doesn't mean it warrants a flag or deletion, it warrants your downvote. There certainly is no issue with this answer that is so drastic as to need moderator intervention.

You keep saying that redundancy is bad, but it really isn't. redundancy has rarely been an issue. In fact, competing answers are somewhat encouraged so that the better explanation can rise to the top. Answers are - by default - sorted by votes, so the most useful answer rises to the top, anyways. Having a few more answers on a question isn't bad. In fact some people might understand one explanation better than another.

Custom mod flags are for things the community can't handle. If you feel this answer is not relevant, you already have the tools to handle it - downvote.

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    Much of this answer is missing the point. The vital issue is not that the answer is incorrect, but that the answer is redundant and adds absolutely no value to the page. The comparison of the same value with different types has been covered. I am sure I was advised at some point by a diamond moderator (in SOCVR) to make a custom flag when an answer is redundant and adds no new value to a page. The fact that 10 other redundant answers were deleted and this js answer was not seems to mean that there was some distraction regarding the js-php debate. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 7:52
  • Also, notice that I didn't flag as NAA -- I used a custom flag and stated that an earlier answer already provided the same insight. Please edit your answer to remove all of the debate relating to NAA flagging. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 7:55
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    @mickmackusa If you bothered to read this answer, you would have noticed that I know you did not use an NAA flag but a custom flag. I address this in the answer. It is still relevant information, because it highlights whats acceptable and what not. Redundancy is not a vital issue at all. You say it is, but it really isn't, at all. I will not remove that, because I feel it is very relevant, even if you do not seem to get that. But you know what? if you disagree, downvote. Thats what they are for.
    – Polygnome
    Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 7:57
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    If you think redundancy is not an issue on Stack Overflow then you haven't read any of the questions with pages of answers. The UX is horrible. Nobody wants to read tens of answers which mix answers with unique insights and answers with redundant insights -- it is an infuriating waste of researchers' time. Would you read an IT book that has loads of redundant pages in it? No, you'd rubbish it. Same thing applies here. The greater community needs to care more about good content curation. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 8:00
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    @mickmackusa Maybe you should take that as a separate issue to meta and see if you can achieve a change in policy/meta consensus? But Stack Overflow is not a book, and I never had a problem with redundant information. If a question has multiple answers, usually the top 1-3 have all info I need. Sometimes an answer more down has the answer. But you know what? If you delete all of the answers except the #1 answer, you delete all that helpful stuff as well.
    – Polygnome
    Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 8:04
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    I just keep shaking my head at your comments -- I disagree with virtually all of it. Stack Overflow is a repository of knowledge - the book metaphor is suitable enough. If you are only ever reading the top 1-3 answers then you are depriving yourself of potentially newer, better answers that never get the attention they need because old answers have already snowballed their vote counts up to the point of invincibility. At no point am I saying that only the #1 answer should remain. I am saying that only answers with unique and valuable insights should remain. Please don't put words in my mouth. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 8:16
  • Further proof that deleting redundant content is deemed useful/important/valuable by those who care for the site... A different moderator handled a different batch of deletion flags and marked them all as helpful: imgur.com/a/VaBXtQU So, you see, purifying the content IS something that should be done. A custom flag is currently the only proper way to do it. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 8:28
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    @mickmackusa Noone disagrees about the redundancy-thing. But you are virtually ignoring what I (in the moved-to-chat comments) and Polygnome are trying to tell you: It is not the concensus to just-like-that-delete stuff that was voted as useful by a significant amount of users. Redundancy itself is not a reason for being deleted. (Careful, I'm not saying redundancy is just fine.) Deleting some trash, 0/-1, redundant answers .. yes .. fine. But when an answer is seen as useful by many, you cannot just "outvote" it with your flag and expect it to be accepted. Stop generalizing that.
    – akuzminykh
    Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 8:43
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    @aku The answer should have never gotten the chance to be "useful" by this many people. I am sure that you are aware that the longer an answer exists, the more likely it is to accrue upvotes (assuming it is not overtly downvote-worthy). As stated before, when you don't have enough knowledgeable whistleblowers critiquing content, then you get bad/incorrect answers quietly snowballing their way to invincibility. e.g. stackoverflow.com/a/37500756/2943403 Will another site ever replace SO? Maybe, if SO becomes a flaming heap of redundant content that researchers hate wading through. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 8:48
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    @mickmackusa Yes, you're absolutely right, it shouldn't have (looking at it from the current perspective), but it has: it was determined to be useful but is strictly speaking redundant. But where do we draw the line? Keep in mind that apparently most of your flags got accepted. But this case here is just more special. Now SO won't become a heap of redundant content just because one of your many flags got rejected. If you fear the big redundancy on SO, then it won't be solved by a post about a specific case like this one. Open a post on Meta about exactly that topic then.
    – akuzminykh
    Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 9:11
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cui bono? (latin: who benefits?)

Judging by the persistent balance of upvotes and downvotes on my question, this is clearly a grey area. So let's consider who benefits from the continued retention of the JavaScript answer...

If the answer is removed, then:

  1. The page loses another redundant answer, the page gets shorter, and researchers will have a faster/easier time ingesting all of the unique/valuable insights.
  2. The page becomes purely devoted to PHP which is alignment with the original and current version of the question.
  3. Researchers who arrive at the page looking for a JavaScript answer will quickly learn to include the tag in their Stack Overflow (or "JavaScript" in Google) searches so that they arrive at more suitable destinations like:
    Which equals operator (== vs ===) should be used in JavaScript comparisons?
  4. Less experienced users will not be confused by the occurrence of alternative language answers.
  5. Stack Overflow loses no unique knowledge since the self-answer covers the topic comprehensively.
  6. The OP loses nothing because the JavaScript answer is offering a small fragment of the self-answer.
  7. The answerer loses nothing since the rep points are immaterial to a deleted account.
  8. Researchers lose nothing because Stack Overflow has plenty of other posts which cover the topic.

Why should the answer remain? Honestly, I have no compelling argument for why the redundant post should stay. I have seen heaps of old answers with huge upvote tallies that are undeserving -- this is just another one. Just because users vote an answer as useful to them doesn't mean it is a good answer to the question asked. (This is a cut and dried example: https://stackoverflow.com/a/37500756/2943403)


Admittedly, the fault falls on the OP for adding a second language ~20 minutes after posting. This moving target question is a problem on all Stack Exchange sites. This instance has resulted in an odd answer being posted and it sticks out like a sore thumb amidst all of the other PHP content. My stance is ultimately the same, the content is redundant and there for unnecessary to retain. I am perfectly fine with not winning every battle, but I am just not convinced by anyone that the JavaScript answer has any worth to the page. I guess I'll play the long game and vote to delete it once the vote tally gets below zero.

If deleting the answer is a "crime" then it is a victimless crime.

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    It's a 12-year-old answer. I could write an equally lengthy "cui bono?" answer about the removing it, but why bother?
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 13:53
  • I would like to see it, because I can't see any reason to keep it. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 13:53
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    My point is that it's a waste of time to go into such depths about a 12 year old answer. Your flag was declined, you got an explanation, let it go.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 13:58
  • I am letting it go. I already said that I'll play the long game and if the vote tally goes below zero, I'll vote to delete it. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 14:00
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    That sounds more like holding a grudge than letting it go. Same for this counter-answer.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 14:01
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    @Cerbrus This is a discussion tagged page. Not much of a discussion if your advice is to let it go. You are welcome to post a counter case as an answer instead of threatening to do so if you wish. Otherwise you are free to let this page go. This discussion has real value to the community because it seems that there is the false assumption that redundant answers cannot be mod-flagged for removal. If you don't want to be part of the discussion, you can bow out at any time -- otherwise try to stay on-topic with your interactions. Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 14:47
  • The meta effect will probably not do it, but with the comment you left (and the upvotes it has received) there is a fair chance a moderator will delete the answer in the not-so-distant future. Moderators have been observed to delete answers for much less (and with zero information as to why). Commented Aug 19, 2020 at 18:52

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