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My question (how to style two divs next to each other with children retaining block) is being downvoted and I'm being told it's invalid. I modeled it after (but provided more details than) the question How to position two elements side by side using CSS which was reasonable upvoted and thoroughly answered.

Instead of getting help for a very specific CSS scenario, I have someone who keeps appearing in the comments to say my question is invalid. I mean I could throw fake CSS in the question to make it "valid", but that's pretty counterproductive.

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    A question from 2013 is not necessarily a good thing to model a question after in 2020. As for your question, there's not much I can add that isn't already detailed in the 3 links that was provided in the comment you mention.
    – ivarni
    Jul 29, 2020 at 6:34
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    Lack of apparent research is valid reason for downvoting a post. For a question like this, it's hard to believe a valid solution couldn't be found with a minimum of research.
    – yivi
    Jul 29, 2020 at 6:38
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    @yivi mean i spent a good 30 minutes studying/researching. That's how i found the other link. I understand downvoting if they feel like it's a lack of research, i don't see it as invalid though. Jul 29, 2020 at 6:40
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    Two things: 30 minutes is not that much time, and those 30 minutes of research are not apparent in your question in any way.
    – yivi
    Jul 29, 2020 at 6:40
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    Maybe I'm captain hindsight when I say this, but I can fill in some blanks I have not seen mentioned yet. If you do your research, you should know that there are several ways to achieve a layout solution using modern CSS. You could go incredibly old fashioned and use tables (don't), you could use floating divs (don't), you could use flex layout (do), you could use CSS grid (do if you don't need to support ancient browsers). Your question makes no mention of any of that, which in 2020 makes for a pretty vague and non-specific CSS question. In 2013 it would have been far less vague.
    – Gimby
    Jul 29, 2020 at 15:18

2 Answers 2

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OK, so…

  • Linking to other questions that happen to not have been closed is not a good argument. Stack Overflow is not a perfect representation of its own requirements. We get zillions of questions per day, and it's simply not possible to audit all of them for compliance. Plenty of off-topic or otherwise unsuitable questions get missed. That doesn't justify you asking one. The rules for questions are applied on an individual basis.

    Furthermore, that particular question you're using as an example is very old. Stack Overflow used to have rather different (i.e., looser) requirements for questions back then. The rules have changed and evolved over time as we've been at this Q&A thing, refining them based on our experiences with what works well and what doesn't.

  • You are expected to do some preliminary research before asking a question, and lack of apparent research effort is a valid reason to downvote a question. However, it is not a reason to (vote to) close a question, and I disagree with some of the commenters here that 30 minutes is not sufficient research effort. It really doesn't make sense to put a time limit on it: some people are just better at finding information than others. The actual time you spent is not meaningful; what matters are the fruits of your labor, and whether you can use that information to write a question that makes you sound at least minimally knowledgeable and informed. These are all things that can help you to avoid downvotes.

  • Downvoting is not something that Stack Overflow has "rules" surrounding. The tooltips on the vote arrows explain most of the common reasons why posts are upvoted and downvoted, but it's not an exhaustive list, and you aren't entitled to an explanation. As long as users aren't engaging in vote fraud, they are allowed to downvote posts for any reason that they see fit. Complaining about downvotes is a lot like tilting at windmills. A downvote means that someone else on the Internet didn't like your post—perhaps they found it lacking in research effort, unclear, unanswerable, unsuitable for this site, and/or a poor fit for our attempt to build a knowledge base. You can choose to take that as a signal that there is something you can improve about your question, or you can choose to ignore it. But editing your question is really the only "reaction" you should have to a downvote. Examining downvotes at an extreme level of detail is generally counter-productive, as it requires trying to guess at what others are thinking, which is rarely successful.

  • There is nothing wrong with your question in terms of Stack Overflow policy, and it should not be closed. Some users appear to be confusing it with a "debug my code" question, and are therefore pressing you to include some description of what code you currently have, but they are misunderstanding your question. It isn't a debugging question, and it doesn't need to be turned into one. As you rightfully said, it would help nothing to clutter your question up with a bunch of failed code, so there is no reason whatsoever to do that.

    There is nothing wrong with a question asking how to accomplish a specific programming task. Such questions are not only fully within our guidelines, but are actually a useful addition to our knowledge base. It would only be a problem if you were asking about a task that was too broad/extensive to be covered in a single answer (like, "How do I build a Facebook clone?"). That doesn't appear to be the case here. It would also be a problem if your question was unclear and/or your requirements were under-specified. Again, that does not appear to be the case here.

    Sorry about the noise and confusion regarding the suitability of your question. I deleted a bunch of comments along these lines already, and I thought the commenter would go away, but I guess they didn't because you kept discussing it with them in the comments. That's not what comments are for; please don't let yourself get dragged into an extensive discussion.

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    oh geez, thank you for the thorough reply! Jul 29, 2020 at 6:58
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    It's what I do. :-) Jul 29, 2020 at 6:58
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    Since you refer to my comment: I'm not saying that there is a specific amount of time one should research before posting. That would be silly, of course. I'm just contesting that "I've researched for 30 minutes" is a valid "I've researched enough" argument. It's not that impressive, generally speaking. But mostly, I insist that those 30 minutes of research are not apparent in the question. If they were, I guess it could be fine (or not, it could also show how the research was clearly insufficient, it depends of how bountiful the harvest of those 30 minutes was).
    – yivi
    Jul 29, 2020 at 6:59
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    Sorry, but I'm a bit unsure of things! I get that its ok to ask how to accomplish a task, but the up/down vote button tooltips mention "research effort" and Step 2 in Ask a Question is "describe what you tried". To me this question is "I want..." with no research effort. It wasn't a difficult task and Googling the question title gives lots of info to get started with. I'm just unsure now where the line is as to what constitutes enough research effort.... At what point do we regard a question as unsuitable for being "clear and not too broad but shows no effort"? Or is that ok if its a task? Jul 29, 2020 at 7:49
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    @fluf Downvote reasons are not identical to close-vote reasons. Lack of research effort is a downvote reason, and you can draw that line wherever you like, since it's your own judgment in casting a downvote. Lack of research effort is not a close reason. If the question is too broad, unclear, or lacks enough details to answer, then those are close-vote reasons. Effort doesn't matter. Related reading: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/388594, meta.stackoverflow.com/a/302067, and the answers linked from each of those. Jul 29, 2020 at 7:52
  • So the problem isn't with the downvotes - it was ok to downvote the question - the problem is with close votes for lack of research? Got it. That clears it up, thanks . Jul 29, 2020 at 9:30
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    Worth mentioning that "insufficient research" is an actual, official close reason on EL&U, because 90%+ of questions we get could have been dispositively answered by opening a dictionary before a SE tab. It is by far our most used close reason.
    – Dan Bron
    Jul 29, 2020 at 12:47
  • Not zillions. About 8,000 on a weekday. Jul 29, 2020 at 21:04
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    "Some users appear to be confusing it with a "debug my code" question, and are therefore pressing you to include some description of what code you currently have" -- This happens all... the... time. It is a product of the "what have you tried" era, a phrase that turned Stack Overflow from a library of programming knowledge into a debugging tool. Jul 29, 2020 at 23:25
  • @PeterMortensen: Which is about 5000 more than we can effectively audit each day. Jul 29, 2020 at 23:28
  • I'm certainly starting to see it happen an awful lot, @Robert. I had to make the same argument no less than 5 times yesterday. I began to grow very tired of it, and very snarky about it. I didn't build a debugging site. I would prefer to get paid for debugging other people's crappy code. Jul 30, 2020 at 1:38
  • I think people use "What have you tried" as a polite "this shows no effort", i.e. not just for debugging info. Also, the 3 steps on the Ask page are “Summarise the problem, Describe what you’ve tried, Show some code”. Maybe this is why you see it a lot? It's the first advice many users see. I thought it was a good summary if I felt a Q needed improving (I know code depends on the Q. I ask if I feel it helps explain the Q, not just for debugging). Whether its right or not (and I guess "not"), that could be at least partly why it's used so often? Jul 30, 2020 at 19:08
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I'd argue that your post is a duplicate of the other one you've linked here. It doesn't really matter that your div happens to have a header and a paragraph instead of just an iframe. It even already has an answer suggesting using flexbox. How to get two things next to each other is also a really common CSS question here (it probably needs a canonical Q&A). It's possible the down voters knew this but didn't want to find a dupe target (or even just didn't have the reputation needed for close votes).

It would have helped you to:

  • Include a link to the other post in your question and explain why their answers don't work for you.
  • List everything you tried or
  • Explain that you don't know what to try and describe what you searched for.
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    Yes, exactly. If not that one, there are sure to be many more potential duplicate targets.
    – yivi
    Jul 29, 2020 at 8:37
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    Indeed this is an nth-dupe. It's been closed as such now.
    – TylerH
    Jul 29, 2020 at 21:10

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