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We have worked with the new close dialog on SO for several months now and it works okay, but one thing I always find as awkward is there is really no option in the dialog that fits closing for not showing any effort in solving the question on their own and not providing a MCVE.

It's not a "Needs More Focus" and it's not a "Needs More Clarity" (more times than not, you know exactly what is being asked, but the author as not provided a MCVE and not shown what they have tried before asking).

What that really translates to is "Needs More Effort / MCVE" (both from the: "your question does not meet the MCVE guideline" point, and to insure it's not a "do it for me" question)

The "Needs More Focus" reason seems ambiguous direction to the author. "Focus on what?" (many times the questions are crystal-clear, no more focus is needed, but what is needed is for the author to show the effort they have put into solving the problem on their own before asking here and a MCVE).

What we have is working, but after 4 months of use, this is one area that stands out as something we could do better with. I don't recall the exact wording of the old close dialog, but we had something along these lines that explained how "questions without a minimal, complete and verifiable example are not useful to others ..." -- that, whatever it was, -- worked well. Just my experience and the thoughts I've had since the change.

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    Yeah, SO have watered down the close reasons to minimize accusations of toxic bostility. The result is that they are no longer an accurate response to the GTC deadbeats - a group that SO would prefer to appease so as to reduce external criticism. If a question needs closing, I just click on something at random. Commented May 10, 2020 at 5:25
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    So politics trumps science even on SO? (pun intended) Sort of renders the close statistics meaningless. It's really a Round Peg, Square Hole issue. I try and and be accurate on the close reason -- but I have to agree with you, on these cases I go to find an accurate reason for close -- and there just isn't one. Commented May 10, 2020 at 5:34
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    It would be clearer if SE provided a mapping between the real close reasons, (eg 'obvious homework dump', 'could not be bothered to do any debugging', 'pan-galactic gargle dupe', 'covered in the FAQ that you didn't read', 'Googling the title gave 36,000,000 matches') and the bromides available in the close reasons radio group. Commented May 10, 2020 at 5:48
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    Not sure what's wrong with using "Needs debugging details. The question should be updated to include desired behavior, a specific problem or error, and the shortest code necessary to reproduce the problem."... I did liked previous one better as it had link to MCVE, but that's another question - meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/397048/… Commented May 10, 2020 at 5:49
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    Side note: "not showing research effort" was never close reason... you can still downvote such post just fine as ever. If you want "not showing effort" as close reason that was covered enough too like meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/260828/… Commented May 10, 2020 at 5:54
  • Yes, that is more an extension of why there is no MCVE many times (drop the question off at SO, go to the bar, pick up the answer in the morning...) It doesn't have to be research effort -- I was thinking the effort that comes along with a MCVE to show you have actually made an effort at solving the problem before posting. Commented May 10, 2020 at 5:58
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    You might be thinking of the "Lacks minimal understanding" reason, which was retired a long time ago, apparently because of abuse. Though, I'd consider the many who dump homework/code requests without any attempt on their own part to be significantly more abusive of what Stack Overflow is meant to be Commented May 10, 2020 at 6:15
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    I’m actually trying to find a solution somewhere between the current version and the older ones for all of the community specific reasons. Happy to see suggestions. We want them to be useful to closers and askers, which is why the close menu guidance can be different than the post notice that ends up on the question.
    – Catija
    Commented May 10, 2020 at 6:55
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    @Catija I think we really need a special one that works for homework like Questions. Where it looks somewhat like a set of requirements, like a jira-ticket. They're very often clear and focused and while the help center on-topic page specifically says that they are not on-topic, there are no close reasons that match. The "Needs debugging details" fail, since there're no errors to debug. I tend to use "Needs details or clarity" because there are no details about what they are struggling with, but I feel bad because how are they suppose to know what I meant?
    – Scratte
    Commented May 10, 2020 at 7:21
  • @Scratte I’m not creating new reasons. Doing that requires retiring an existing one and a ton of discussion here on MSO to decide what to say. That also doesn’t seem like it’d fit the format. What you’re talking about sounds more like a question type and we don’t really have an option for that right now. The best I can think of would be a help page or faq.
    – Catija
    Commented May 10, 2020 at 12:50
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    @Catija I don't think it would be entirely unproductive to have such a discussion on meta. I feel that too many Questions that are not on-topic and hence should be closed doesn't fit any of the close reasons. When I flag them for closure, I feel like a really bad person, because I know the reason I've chosen doesn't fit the real reason. So I know that the user will be told something thought the closure banner that's just not true, and they will have a harder time figuring out what's wrong with their Question.
    – Scratte
    Commented May 10, 2020 at 12:58
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    @Catija Fair enough. But when I know I'll be crossing my own line of integrity, I will not flag it. Another thing that I feel is important is your reference to "At 3k when you can.." That day may never come. I may be curating at my low level for years or give up and focus on getting the reputation instead. I expect most users are <3K as well. I see Questions all the time that do not meet requirements and hundreds of views. Yet the Questions are open.
    – Scratte
    Commented May 10, 2020 at 13:14
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    That's the whole point. There are a lot of questions that I close that I cannot be accurate in the reason I'm giving for closing them -- because there is no matching reason on the close dialog. A majority of those fall directly into this category. I don't see why it takes any more work than adding a new reason to the close dialog. We shouldn't get stuck in an analysis paralysis mentality -- if something needs fixing, let's just fix it. Whatever language you come up with will be fine if it captures the fact that the author needs to show the effort they have made in solving the problem and MCVE. Commented May 10, 2020 at 19:00
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    @Ivar One of the things about this I find disturbing is that even close voting seems to be emotional or based on opinion. I've seen a few Questions getting closed even though I perceived them to be useful how-to-Questions, that I assume people didn't like because author didn't .."bleed enough". However I don't feel the discussion here is about that, but about the off-topic reason given as "3. Questions asking for homework help must include a summary of the work you've done so far to solve the problem, and a description of the difficulty you are having solving it."
    – Scratte
    Commented May 11, 2020 at 8:53
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    @Scratte I'm fine with having that specific close reason, but that is not really what I read in the question body here. To me the question body actually does read as "We need a close reason for questions that don't show any effort". I'm a bit worried that such a reason will actively harm the purpose of this site by closing questions that could be very useful to others.
    – Ivar
    Commented May 11, 2020 at 9:20

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