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After having been repeatedly banned for allegedly "bad" reviews, I'm under the impression that the moderating process is inherently flawed and in need of repair. Or maybe the whole Stack Exchange concept is flawed?

For the start: I know how the Triage Queue works.

In this most recent case, taking into account that the OP was "a new contributor to this site", to whom we are encouraged to be exceptionally nice, I felt the question qualifies (borderline) as

kind of a boring or useless question but it doesn't really need to be closed or removed

(this is a quote from the above document), so I

hit Looks OK

(I apparently wasn't the the 3rd reviewer, so I couldn't immediately downvote).

So, as far as I'm concerned (and another reviewer, who shared my opinion*), this question would not have landed in the Help & Improvement queue and induced additional burden to anyone on the site. However, a third reviewer thought it "Requires Editing", sending it to the H&I queue, which obviously made a moderator (Sam, was it you?) angry, triggering another ban, at least for me.

The moderator thinks that the "question needs details or clarity". This is obviously somewhat subjective---if it weren't, Stack Exchange would likely have algorithms doing triage automatically. However, the way it is handled now is pure lottery:

  • EITHER: I, by pure chance or by reading the moderator's mind, choose exactly the same as he/she/they would, and everything is fine;
  • OR: I come to a conclusion which, by some chance, differs, however slightly, from the moderator's, and get banned.

There is no middle ground. The lottery is further complicated when new users are affected. If I want to know how lenient the moderator is towards new users, my best bet is to read tea leaves.

I know that moderators are under pressure, but the fish probably stinks from the head:

  • Stack Exchange investors are under pressure from the market / their own shareholders. They pass the pressure down to the
  • Stack Exchange execs, who pass it further to the
  • SE community managers, who pass it further to the
  • site moderators, who pass it further to the
  • reviewers, who pass it further to the
  • ordinary users, who are actually the ones who generate most of the contents and for whom this site is supposed to be. In the end, it's the community which is suffering.

Is this system viable?

I don't know. I have read enough comments by banned reviewers who resigned and decided not to engage in reviewing anymore. There seems to be a "nevermind" fraction among the moderators, which believes it's OK, since those resigned reviewers were, and would have remained, bad reviewers anyway. It would be nice if we had some data to substantiate this belief. Personally, I doubt it. Moderators are not all-knowing and there is an element of chance in every review. Unjust punishments are known to be counterproductive.

For myself, the current ban has no "educational purpose" whatsoever. It can't have! For the question in question, which was borderline, I could have equally well voted "Unsalvageable" and the moderator "Looks OK" and I would have been in the same situation as I am now. And, the former ban had only the effect that I now systematically skip all questions I even faintly believe could require editing, thus leaving the burden of decision---and risk---to someone else. According to the chat, there seem to be more people acting this way. But, if everyone did it, triage wouldn't work at all.

I am well aware that the moderators are unhappy with the triage, too and trying to pass the pressure back to the SE staff**. However, most proposed solutions concentrate on the "Requires Editing" problem, and, as far as I can tell, none (including mine) would solve the problem described in this post.

The root cause, at least to me, seems to be the chaotic nature of the system: minimal differences in opinion can have dramatic consequences.

Do you agree? If yes, do you have suggestions how to fix the system?


EDIT:

It was suggested to me that my question is a duplicate of another one. I respectfully disagree, because

  1. Being nice to new contributors is not the central point (boldface, above) of my question. It just happened to exacerbate the problem, and

  2. The answers to that other question are of little use. Even if being nice were the issue here, the answers there do not explain what it means. In the best case, they explain what it isn't.


*Just for the record: I know that having other reviewers agree with me is not a proof of me being right and the moderators wrong, so let's spare ourselves a discussion about it.

**Or are they? Looking at the chat, they seem to make it a game out of banning reviewers; see this message.

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    "taking into account that the OP was "a new contributor to this site"" - Irrelevant when it comes to post quality. That post does not "Look OK" Commented Mar 13, 2020 at 16:26
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    Don't mistake the tremendous effort Sam is doing right now as "a game": or something that is fun. That something needed to be done was clear a long time ago. We've waited long enough. Collecting and Presenting evidence of how bad the current system is, is needed. Don't go down the route to blame mods. Don't even think about it, Just don't. Don't!
    – rene
    Commented Mar 13, 2020 at 16:28
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    I don't believe anyone is making a game out of banning reviewers. There is a concerted effort underway to educate reviewers how to review, particularly in the Triage review queue. Banning is the lightest way of doing that. The effort is underway because large numbers of reviewers consistently get it wrong. Unfortunately, the user interface isn't effective at training users how to review, particularly in Triage. It's been repeatedly brought up over several years – almost from Triage first existing – as an issue/request for SE to improve the user interface, but that hasn't happened.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Mar 13, 2020 at 16:32
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    The fact that this newcomer has been repeatedly downvoted for his good-faith suggestions tells me everything I need to know about the current moderation process. Wow, just, wow. So much for being kind to the newbie.
    – Forklift17
    Commented Mar 13, 2020 at 16:35
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    @Forklift17 "Kind to the newbie" means "be respectful and polite". Not "please stop using the site's features".
    – yivi
    Commented Mar 13, 2020 at 16:36
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    @Forklift17 Voting on any of the Meta sites is different than on the main sites. On Meta sites, votes much more strongly represent people's agreement or disagreement with the position expressed in the post, rather than just an expression of people's opinion on the quality of the post, although they can also reflect that. As a consequence, downvotes on Meta should not be considered negative to the person who wrote the post. The fact that you, and a lot of people, feel that downvotes are "unkind", demonstrates that Stack Overflow has failed to educate users as to what downvotes actually mean.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Mar 13, 2020 at 16:40
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    @Forklift17 the post is well written but I don't think it adds any new insight in the discussion already seen in other posts. Not useful from my point of view which matches with my down vote.
    – rene
    Commented Mar 13, 2020 at 16:40
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    "OR: I come to a conclusion which, by some chance, differs, however slightly, from the moderator's, and get banned." Moderators don't ban reviewers for coming to a slightly different conclusion from them. They do it when a review is blatantly contrary to the site guidelines, as it was in this case. Commented Mar 13, 2020 at 17:16
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    ”to whom we are encouraged to be exceptionally nice” Do not misinterpret this as an end-around or exception to our quality standards. Closing a question is not the opposite of being nice.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 14, 2020 at 2:46

1 Answer 1

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It's not about reading anyone's mind. It's about familiarizing with the site's rules and quality standards. That was not an "ok" question. Needed to be closed.

That the poster was a "new contributor" is mostly irrelevant. If anything, it's more important to act on those questions by new contributors so they learn how to better ask questions here. If that question were not closed, they might assume that kind of question is fine here, although it's not fine at all

If you participate in review, I imagine it's because you want to contribute and help. If you are getting review suspensions with some frequency, it's because you are being told "your reviews are not actually helpful". You have three options:

  1. Try to learn how to better review, so your contributions are actually helpful. If you are donating your free time, it's better if you make sure the donation is effective and useful.
  2. Stop reviewing. Maybe you do not enjoy the activity because of the rules. Not everybody reviews, and not everybody reviews with the same frequency.
  3. Blame someone else, refuse to learn, continue trying to review without learning the rules and get more suspensions in the future.
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    Okay, I have opted for 3. Now what?
    – rene
    Commented Mar 13, 2020 at 16:47
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    I guess the problem would self-solve in the future. ;)
    – yivi
    Commented Mar 13, 2020 at 16:50
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    @rene wait 4-8 months and then post a very angry question about crazy long review bans being unfair. Commented Mar 13, 2020 at 17:02

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