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I've been review-banned for a triage review that I goofed up:

Your review on triage/25514613 wasn't helpful. Please review the history of the post and consider which action would achieve that outcome more quickly.

I selected "Looks OK". One other reviewer selected "Looks OK", three selected "needs editing," and one selected "unsalvageable." Then the question was closed.

I've reviewed the history of the post several times, and I still don't understand what I've done wrong. I need to understand, so that I don't make the same mistake again.

  • Should I have voted that it is unsalvageable because it was ultimately closed as off topic? My trouble is that it seems on topic to me. I can't see what specific off-topic reason was given, so I can only guess at why it was closed specifically. Installing library header files is something only a programmer would do, so it seems like the question is apropos to programming. I also feel like there's enough detail in the question to be answerable without too much difficulty.

  • Should I have voted that it needs editing because it had a few language issues? I had no trouble understanding it; my understanding of "needs edit" is that it's for questions that are not answerable in their current form, because of gross formatting or language issues.

I want to do better--I just need to understand how.


Also: Can someone please post a link to the triage guide? I'd like to read it again, but the link to the guide was in the triage queue itself, which I can no longer see.

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    That post was closed: Questions asking us to recommend or find a book, tool, software library, tutorial or other off-site resource are off-topic. Why did you pick 'Looks Okay' there? I don't think that that post was good enough to survive on the site, really.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Mar 4, 2020 at 16:46
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    (and no, 'needs editing' would definitely have been the wrong choice, glad you understand what that option means! Way too many reviewers don't).
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Mar 4, 2020 at 16:47
  • @MartijnPieters The question included a link to the library--all I thought the asker needed was some guidance to learn how to pull down an older version of the library from github, so essentially a git question. I didn't think the question was asking for an entirely different resource, but I think I made an assumption that the older version he needed would be in that repo. If it's in a different repo, then yeah, very off topic. Mar 4, 2020 at 16:49
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    While using and installing header files is indeed something that programmers do, it's the fact that they are asking where to find an external resource that's the issue here. Granted, this one is a bit borderline, I'll let the moderator that hit the 'ban' switch here know and ask for them to motivate this further.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Mar 4, 2020 at 16:49
  • Yes, I actually agree there; they had found the repository in question, it is pretty much answerable when reworded a bit.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Mar 4, 2020 at 16:50
  • @MartijnPieters Thank you for confirming that I understood "needs editing" properly. I'm glad to be at least partially clueful. Mar 4, 2020 at 16:53
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    See Getting banned from review, although my co-reviewers agree with me? for the post we send everyone to that we catch misunderstanding 'needs editing', if you are interested in deepening your understanding there.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Mar 4, 2020 at 16:55
  • Even if you argue that this is a git question on how to get an older version, then "looks ok" is still a wrong option. That question is filled the typos and grammar issues, to "requires editing" can become suitable for someone to fix those issues, but it wouldn't be ok in the current state.
    – Tom
    Mar 4, 2020 at 17:04
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    Here's the link you wanted: Is there a guide for the Triage queue?
    – Davy M
    Mar 4, 2020 at 17:20
  • @Tom The review guide seems to agree with you. It seems that at the very least, I should have selected "Requires editing." Mar 4, 2020 at 17:21
  • I think that's not the same review guide, however, that you get when you click the link in the review queue. So I'm still unsure. Mar 4, 2020 at 17:27
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    This is the link you get from the drop down in the Triage queue "Confused? Read the detailed guide for triaging questions". It links to the same Question as the link Davy M gave you, just not directly to the answer. In addition I've found How should I get started reviewing Late Answers and First Posts? to be very useful as well.
    – Scratte
    Mar 4, 2020 at 18:07

1 Answer 1

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Briefly:

  • Looks Okay: Needs nothing, no edits, no additional information, and is answerable in its current state.
  • Needs Edit: Needs an edit not from the OP to make the post answerable.
  • Unsalvageable: Even with an edit either from the OP or others, the post is off topic or should be closed.
  • Skip: Confused, not interested, grey area.

This is your fault.

That question was terrible. While the problem itself was on topic here, the question was composed in a manner which made it nearly impossible to properly solve without more information. "Looks Okay" was certainly the wrong option. A salvageable edit was technically a possibility from the OP, however, given the current state of what was produced, exceptionally unlikely. It was more than likely unsalvageable.

This isn't your fault though.

While the question was terrible, it wasn't exactly off topic in our currently defined set of reasons. Now, before everyone jumps on the "but we all agree that you can use X close reason for this Y situation", that is true, that is the current environment. But should it be? No. It causes well-intentioned users like Wayne to get review banned, and also leaves questions like this on the site in certain situations. Heck, some people have gone so far to suggest that downvote thresholds should be used to close questions. That just shows how far off our current set really is from what it should be.

We need to refine our esoteric close reasons to more accurately describe what is off topic, what is problematic, and why. There is a reason that close reason verbiage was the core of welcoming in the first place so many years ago, and that is because closure is the primary source of friction in this community. We need to do something about it.

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    Thank you for your help. Your answer is kind and clear and much appreciated. Mar 4, 2020 at 18:56
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    What close reason would you create to cover this case? Mar 4, 2020 at 21:17
  • Wait, I thought "Needs Edit" meant "Needs Edit from the OP"? Or is that a different queue where that is the case?
    – TylerH
    Mar 4, 2020 at 22:27
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    @TylerH - "Is the question in pretty bad shape? Can you imagine yourself (not the post's author) editing the question into something that can be answered? How about some other random editor with perhaps more knowledge of the specific area, or more patience for lousy writing, or both? If so, hit Requires Editing." (from the guide) Arguably, the buttons need rewording, which I have suggested before.
    – Travis J
    Mar 4, 2020 at 22:51
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    @CodyGray - That is definitely a good question to ask, and I can give a suggestion but really the community at large working together will probably produce the best results for refining these reasons and the process. It needs a review in its entirety. For example, on hold generally means someone is going to come in and answer. If you place me on hold, I will wait until someone answers or I will call back. A better term there would be "waiting for edits", or similar, to convey the fact that the OP needs to edit the post in order for it to move forward.
    – Travis J
    Mar 4, 2020 at 23:05
  • This would also allow more granular close reasons to form a grammar of sorts that allow a language to be presented to the asker. "I have an old code that have this" is really not enough description of what the overall environment was. While "not enough detail" does in some ways cover this, the reason itself is so broad that it could cover most questions. In addition, the reason also states "As it's currently written, it’s hard to tell exactly what you're asking" which isn't the case here. It is clear that the OP is asking how to make a new version still have legacy access to something.
    – Travis J
    Mar 4, 2020 at 23:05
  • It just isn't clear what type of environment led to that situation. The issues contributing overall to the problems with this question are: a lack of an example to troubleshoot from, a lack of explanation of how the failure was identified, a lack of an explanation of what was expected when it was observed the header was missing, a lack of a description of the current environment being used. All of these issues contribute to a situation where answering this question is just a best guess.
    – Travis J
    Mar 4, 2020 at 23:05
  • As a result, editing the question is required in order for an answerer to provide a solution which is not a guess. Condensing that into something generic is difficult. If I had to point out the main issue across of all of that, it would be that this is not off topic to Stack Overflow, however, it is at present not reasonably answerable, whereby the reason it isn't answerable is that it lacks either a description or example for the answerer to use for verification, recreation, or identification. Thus, something reflecting the issue of lacking background information would perhaps be relevant.
    – Travis J
    Mar 4, 2020 at 23:06
  • [Waiting for edits] Not enough background information. This question does not adequately describe the situation in which the main problem occurred. Please give a description or example which can be used to either verify, recreate, or identify the source of the issue described.
    – Travis J
    Mar 4, 2020 at 23:06

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