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I recently got a manual review ban with the following message:

Due to your poor review history as well as no signs of improvement after multiple review bans, you are no longer welcome to use any review queues on the site.

While I understand, that I may be a bit too distracted for reviewing and maybe this is not a particularly suitable task for me, I was a bit consterned about the tone of the message. It is the "You are no longer welcome", which dominates the message.

People are asked to be kind to each other, doesn't this also count for messages like these? Especially the moderators should follow that paradigm if the users should take it seriously. Perhaps, it is not a good idea, that the authors of such messages can hide behind anonymity, this surely doesn't contribute to the tone of the messages.

I would have been glad to see a more friendly message, perhaps "Unfortunately, reviewing doesn't seem to be a suitable task for you, so we have to ban you from this task. However, we would welcome you to contribute to the site in other ways.", or something like that.

That would have been nice.

Edit:

Thanks for your feedback. So, the consensus is, that the message is perfectly kind and I just have mistaken the tone as unfriendly. I can accept that, for different native languages the tone of a kind english message may probably vary largely. I am probably sometimes overly careful when writing own messages/posts, but I like to be on the safe side here.

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  • 12
    I fail to see the problem, you previously were welcome to perform reviews... and you no longer are, it's a statement of fact, it's not rude or unkind Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:16
  • @Nick You can state facts with different connotations, you can say one thing kindly or with a hostile or condescending tone. I felt the message has the latter one.
    – Ctx
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:17
  • 17
    We don't reach these decisions lightly, or without evidence. The message was perfectly kind, although it was not welcoming. That was no accident. You are very much not welcome to use review queues on this site.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:21
  • @CodyGray This is a contradictio in adiecto. An unwelcoming message cannot be kind per definitionem. So, how about admitting you didn't want to be kind? That's honest at least.
    – Ctx
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:23
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    Absolutely disagreed. We can kindly show you the door. That's what we did.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:26
  • @CodyGray Perhaps my definition of "kind" is a bit different from yours. And yes, you can kindly show the door. But that's not what you did.
    – Ctx
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:28
  • see also:Make moderator messages anonymous
    – gnat
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:31
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    Just get over it... message is fine. If you take one step back, you will see that this is just a rant because you got manual suspension you cannot dispute, so you are nitpicking over words... if the message was different (the way you would want it to be) I bet you would still find something else to complain about.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:40
  • @DalijaPrasnikar No, indeed this is not the case, the ban was imposed several time ago, so I had time to think about it. And if you read my messages and comments carefully, then you should come to the conclusion, that there is nothing bitter in it. It is just what I wrote: When you have to bring bad news, you can do it in a way that is a bit more careful.
    – Ctx
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:43
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    I am afraid that you cannot edit anything... the whole post sounds like a rant. Why? Because you are complaining about wording from ban message that is perfectly fine. "No longer welcome" is commonly used, polite, phrase that perfectly conveys message in this case... you may no longer do (come, use) whatever because what you did previously (on numerous occasions) was not acceptable behavior, and I assume you got temporary suspensions for that.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 11:56
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    Point is, focusing on friendlier message is exercise in futility, because everyone will have their own idea what friendlier message might be. You were not told "to go to hell" or something plain rude... so from that POV your post is pointless. Also, this is ban message, so from moderators POV you were continuously abusing your review privilege... saying firm "no, you cannot longer do that", is perfectly acceptable.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 11:59
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    Seeing your latest reviews, what option you chose and how much time you took to chose the same option for every case, I would say "misbehaviour" is a suitable word here. Calling that "mistakes" and "a bit too distracted", especially after being banned multiple times, is nothing more than an excuse.
    – Tom
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 12:33
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    @Tom It is an explanation, I do not need to seek for excuse here. Indeed, it does not bother me too much to no longer perform reviewing tasks; Sure, it was a way to kill some time (i.e. while eating lunch), but what should be the motivation to intentionally perform bad reviews? This is a bit far-fetched, and I think you owe me an apology for that.
    – Ctx
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 12:42
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    @Ctx I won't join the conversation much more, notice I had actually deleted my comment. But it seems to be a very convenient way to sidestep the argument of those you don't like, to point to "this is rude" and demand apologies. It doesn't bring the conversation forward, disregards entirely the points other make, and overall, in my opinion, looks disingenuous and like an attempt to bring everything to "I'm offended". So..... meh. I decided to not join in the end by deleting my comment. Should've been faster at that, or refrained from posting in the first place. Good luck
    – Patrice
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 13:16
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    @Patrice You seem to have ignored my edit above; I accept that the consense is, that the message was not meant unkind or unfriendly, so no, I do not disregard the points that others make. But you will have to let me strongly object when I am accused of intentional misbehaviour.
    – Ctx
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 13:20

1 Answer 1

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I do not think you are no longer welcome phrase "dominates" the message at all, but that the poor review history and no signs of improvement part is quite more important in the ban message.

People are asked to be kind to each other, doesn't this also count for messages like these?

I would believe calling this message "unkind" would be quite a stretch. But maybe a more neutral and matter-of-fact verbiage would allow for less room for complaint.

E.g: "Due to your poor review history as well as no signs of improvement after multiple review bans, you won't be able to use any of the review queues on the site any longer".

Perhaps, it is not a good idea, that the authors of such messages can hide behind anonymity, this surely doesn't contribute to the tone of the messages

Exposing our moderators to abuse is a worse idea. Most users are not this happy with type of action when it applies to them, and many would make poor use of the information if the moderator issuing the message was personally identifiable.

Also, which moderator issued the ban is not important, nor gives the receiving user any actionable information.

If the identity of the mod were visible, not only it would have make for a poor experience for our moderators, but it would simply distract from the message. It's irrelevant information. The message was issued by the moderator team, for all intents and purposes.

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  • In history, it has never done something good when the "ruling" people could hide behind anonymity. This is of course different with dissidents, that might fear oppression.
    – Ctx
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:32
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    Moderators are not a ruling class. They are our elected janitors.
    – yivi
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:32
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    As are policemen, but this applies perfectly to them. In most countries they are identifiable nowadays to prevent too harsh actions.
    – Ctx
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:34
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    Stack Overflow is not a country. Moderators are not policemen. Analogies and similes are brittle and prone to breaking if stretched.
    – yivi
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:35
  • This is correct, but you came up with the first analogy (janitor)
    – Ctx
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:36
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    Ok, I take that back. My bad. I thought that you would understand it in the context of comparing moderators to "ruling people in history that hid behind anonymity". But obviously I was wrong. Have a good day.
    – yivi
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:37
  • I don't appreciate that you immediately pull out from the conversation with a last snappy comment when you noticed a flaw in your argumentation.
    – Ctx
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:39
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    Anonymity is irrelevant to the point here. I am not the moderator who issued the ban, yet I completely agree with the decision to do so. I strongly suspect the rest of the moderator team does, as well. As yivi said, we function as a team, not as individuals, so ire directed at a single moderator is entirely misplaced. I do disagree that the phrasing "you won't be able" is any more neutral or matter-of-fact than "no longer welcome". In fact, I prefer the latter. It's less colloquial, and emphasizes that reviewing is a privilege that needs to be maintained.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:43
  • @Cody Frankly, I don't have any preference on any verbiage. I imagine these type of ban if rare enough as to maybe not warrant its own canned message. I was only trying to partially accommodate the OP, and maybe provide an alternative where complaints are less likely (although nothing could completely pre-empt all possible interpretations). A message like this no longer serves any educational purpose (since the user won't be reviewing any longer), so it should simply inform them of the situation, and hopefully avoid them making a another fuss.
    – yivi
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:50
  • But as I said, I'm perfectly fine with the message issued; I just hope I never get it myself.
    – yivi
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 10:50
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    This is actually a canned message. Although it isn't provided by the site itself, it's in a userscript that is fairly widely used among the moderators, and it's verbiage that we've been using for a long time (i.e., the canned message in the userscript was based on a template in use long before the userscript). I have nothing against bikeshedding over wording, and have done it many times myself. If I thought there were something that could or should be changed to improve it, I would. But I quite like it. It's clear, appropriate, and succinct. (The latter of which I usually struggle with.)
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 18:46
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    On the “anonymity” of the message: exactly which moderator pulled the trigger is recorded, if a moderator truly misused the tool, then employees and the rest of the moderator team would know who’d done this. We just don’t show this to the recipient. Why? It used to be different, at least for mod messages. But when some lowlife tried to get a moderator fired from their day-job when said lowlife was suspended on SO, that was changed. We don’t need someone with an axe to grind take things way out of proportion and make a moderation action on an internet site with virtual points, personal. Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 23:01
  • 1
    See Make moderator messages anonymous over on the Uber Meta for the discussion on that change. Commented Mar 2, 2020 at 23:13
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    @Martijn That’s what I meant by “exposing our moderators to abuse”.
    – yivi
    Commented Mar 3, 2020 at 0:14
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    "We apologise for any inconvenience that review ban may have caused you, and we appreciate your understanding. Thanks for your cooperation, looking forward to hearing from you somewhere else!"
    – gnat
    Commented Mar 3, 2020 at 7:18

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