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Catija wrote:

The ["Does this answer your question? [Link to possible duplicate]"] comment was removed because the user disagreed that the duplicate you proposed answered their question and the system now removes them in that case. ... That deletion is going direct to the database which leaves the result you see.

Ok, but:

  • A question asker generally doesn't recognize that a duplicate actually answers their question; after all, they're the one asking the question, meaning they don't know a solution to their problem, and perhaps they don't recognize one when someone shows it to them, because it's in a form they don't expect.
  • When the question is not closed as a duplicate, the comment is useful for later visitors wanting to perhaps actually try and see whether the duplicate answers their question, or wanting to help explain the OP why the duplicate actually answers their question.
  • This deletion breaks the "Linked" section in the sidebar, which used to link to possible duplicates - but now that the comment is hard-deleted, the link is gone as well. See redirect in htaccess to force uppercase URL which has 2 duplicate votes but no comments and no "Linked" section in the sidebar.
  • The close-voter can't see anymore which question they suggested as duplicate:

    as the person who actually cast the close vote I don't see the suggested duplicate! I can only see that I cast a "duplicate close vote" and the only option is to "Retract Close Vote". I should be able to see the "suggested duplicate" as well

In short: the "possible duplicate" or "Does this answer your question?" comment is for more people than just the OP and serves a bigger purpose than just asking the OP a question, namely linking to the other question for all other users, and should not be automatically removed, especially not if it only takes one click from the OP to do so, because the OP is not in the position to determine that.

I may just sound angry because you're breaking my workflow, but you're carving away at the duplicate system here, without any announcement of this change - as far as I could find.

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  • 2
    Not sure if relevant but this feature has been in place since last week Commented Feb 5, 2020 at 12:07
  • @Nick if I'd found out about this earlier, I'd have complained earlier. I practically only dupe-hammer using my gold badges, so I don't encounter this situation too often.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Feb 5, 2020 at 12:08
  • 2
    Not saying you wouldn't have :), just a bit of information, as I personally hadn't noticed it previously either. I had to ask to find out when it was implemented Commented Feb 5, 2020 at 12:08
  • I wonder if this happens if you actually type the comment, but don't vote to close (I often do this, when I'm pretty confident it is, but giving the OP the benefit of doubt and I don't want to "gold badge" it).
    – Thom A
    Commented Feb 5, 2020 at 12:21
  • 5
    @Larnu I also wonder if it happens when edited, as I edit mine to "Possible duplicate of" so I don't get replies from OP Commented Feb 5, 2020 at 12:25
  • 4
    @Larnu AFAIK, it's a dumb string match that checks whether any comment contains a link to the suggested duplicate, or something like that. See also Do not automatically remove hand-written comments when closing as duplicate. This feature has been problematic for years, as the edit count was also ignored (which was meant to let such comments remain, when the poster edited them).
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Feb 5, 2020 at 12:25
  • 13
    Wow, this seems to make about zero sense whatsoever. Am I right to assume that the next step in this feature development process is auto-validating the "abusive" flags askers sometimes slap on these duplicate suggestion comments? Commented Feb 5, 2020 at 15:36
  • 22
    Thanks for posting this. I complained to Catija about this yesterday. Seems this was a regression introduced during the massive rework to post notices. I firmly believe it’s a bug, but there’s an indication that staff intended to remove it. Either way, it was a mistake and needs to come back. The comment also needs to get rephrased so it isn’t asking a question.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 5, 2020 at 23:29
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    If nothing else, in the case where it's actually not a duplicate, the comment can also prevent other people from suggesting the same question as a duplicate.
    – Troyen
    Commented Feb 6, 2020 at 2:11
  • 2
    "The close-voter I can't see anymore which question they suggested as duplicate" This is actually really important in my view. Especially if I want to cite said duplicate to explain why it's a duplicate. It's also improtant to the OP, as they can cite the duplicate in their question and explain why it's not a dupe. If both the OP and the voter can't easily determine the dupe candidate after they've said "no" this could also more easily enable "pile on" votes from those with the Close Vote priviledge.
    – Thom A
    Commented Feb 8, 2020 at 13:22
  • 2
    The duplicate comment deletion has been reversed. Thanks everyone for your feedback. Commented Feb 10, 2020 at 15:56
  • 1
    @CodeCaster I can confirm that it the deletion is not using a "dumb string match". Also, when these comments are deleted (for instance, when the post is actually closed as a duplicate) the edit count is not being ignored. Commented Feb 10, 2020 at 15:58
  • 1
    @Yaakov thanks! Maybe not anymore, but it used to be like that.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Feb 10, 2020 at 16:05

4 Answers 4

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Thanks for your feedback. The duplicate comment is no longer being deleted when the post owner rejects a duplicate post suggestion.

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    Thanks for both fixing it and giving feedback!
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Feb 10, 2020 at 16:07
14

When the question is not closed as a duplicate, the comment is useful for later visitors wanting to perhaps actually try and see whether the duplicate answers their question, or wanting to help explain the OP why the duplicate actually answers their question.

Also, removing the OP's answer doesn't help the OP, if someone says "no this doesn't answer my question because ...", this is also important to know and talk about. By removing the comment, people don't know if the OP's answer is NO, or if the comment was removed for some other reason. I will be more concentrated if I see the OP's answer in comment more than just see nothing. I will probably just see the suggested duplicate and agree 95% of time without caring about the OP. And so if the question gets closed, the OP will end up angry.

To be clear, this just adds confusion for everyone. Doesn't help anyone. Let the comment in place even if OP disagrees. Actually, seems the user just hit a button "NO" that would be better to generate an auto no answer for the OP, or ask to the OP a custom reason for why they disagree. This would be much better than deleting something useful (we all know comments are temporary but temporary != useless, a question's critical life is generally 1 day, comments are useful for this period of time).


Note: Martijn said:

This is consistent with other close votes.

Duplicate are not like other close reason, duplicate actually should not be call "close a question" but "redirect a question". That why it's special. Duplicate are generally good to have, all other closed question are DELETED at some point not duplicate.

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Please do not delete useful comments. When I flag a comment that suggests a fix, which OP tries and confirms it doesn't work, my flag is rejected. Why should a comment be deleted automatically by the system when OP declines it?

Quoting Cody Gray:

What you describe is the purpose of the blue notification banner that appears at the top of questions which have been flagged as a possible duplicate. That banner's purpose is to alert the asker of the question, and that banner should indeed disappear if the asker indicates their disagreement. However, the purpose of the comment is to alert other viewers of the question that there is a related question.

The comment is not for the OP! The comment is for others to see what has been suggested. We are not asking OP to tell us if our judgement is right, we are telling them that this questions has been answered before, or the exact same question has been asked already. The text of the comment is not suitable, and many of us would edit it to say: "Possible Duplicate: ...". (A better text IMO would be "This has been answered here: ") We do not want OP to tell us that this is not the right duplicate target; we want them to try the suggestions from that post and update the question if these suggestions were not helpful.

We close questions as duplicates, not because someone had the exact same problem, but because the exact answer has been written before. In other words, when we suggest a duplicate we say that this is our answer to this question. It's ok if the OP replies to us that it didn't help them, but do not delete our answers!

-28

I really don't see this as an issue. The comment, as worded, is aimed at the OP. The OP has responded to it, it's purpose is done. The comment is also deleted if the OP accepts the duplicate, or the post is closed as a duplicate when sufficient additional close votes are cast. Comments are ephemeral, deleting it here absolutely makes sense.

That the comment was also being used by others for other purposes can be addressed in other ways.

First, the dupe vote is not gone, it is there for other close-voters to see (close (n) on the post, voting to close as duplicate suggests the target post as the first choice, the close review queue shows the duplicate post as a tab). This is consistent with other close votes.

Only those that voted to close the post as a duplicate can't currently see what the voted to close the post as a duplicate of, so at most 2 people are inconvenienced by this. This can be remedied by recording the duplicate target somewhere else. Personally, I'd rather see the duplicate target being included in the post timeline.

Finally, duplicate voters sometimes get it wrong. I don't see a need to record such errors in the related posts sidebar. We can always add a new comment stating the posts are related if not an outright duplicate.

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    "We can always add a new comment stating the posts are related if not an outright duplicate." Which will be deleted, since "Comments are ephemeral". Also, the wording of the comment is immaterial to its deletion; it gets deleted even if you edit it to remove the question, as indicated in the comments. Commented Feb 6, 2020 at 13:21
  • 3
    The difference between duplicate votes and all other votes is that the former point to other questions. The OP should not be the sole responsible person to with the power to remove the only immediately visible link (for many visitors) to the other question. Yes, wrong duplicates are suggested, but correct duplicates are negated by OPs as well. And yes, the automatically posted comment talks to the OP, but it has not done so in like 13 years, that's a recent change.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Feb 6, 2020 at 13:21
  • 4
    What I mean is that a lingering "possible duplicate of" comment, automatically posted years ago where the OP has visibly disagreed, has helped me more often than not when researching actual problems encountered in my work as a developer. These comments are not just for the OP, despite the recent change of phrasing.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Feb 6, 2020 at 13:25
  • 6
    I, and I am not alone, seriously doubt whether there are any good intentions at play, because the intentions are not advertised. Yeah, (new) users don't like comments under their question implying that they didn't search well enough. But there's a chance they didn't. That's life. People don't dupe-vote to insult question askers, they do so to help them. The solution is not to let those users delete such comments with one button click.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Feb 6, 2020 at 13:34
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    @CodeCaster: there have been loads of other changes and developments rolled out, not every single tweak needs pre-announcing. That's going to be hugely prohibitive, and you cannot predict how every change is going to be received. Commented Feb 6, 2020 at 13:35
  • 1
    @CodeCaster: and again, the dupe vote is not lost. The comment is one small component in giving the OP a chance to confirm that the linked duplicate helps them. They don't have to accept that it does, they frequently get it wrong, they sometimes act with hostility towards someone suggesting a dupe, but deleting the comment is not an act of trying to bury anything. Keeping the comment around is not going to make anything friendlier or more hostile. Commented Feb 6, 2020 at 13:38
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    "I really don't see this as an issue. The comment, as worded, is aimed at the OP." <= This is the issue, the comment is not only aimed at the OP, the previous notice visible to OP only was that, a comment pointing to a possible duplicate is useful to others visitors as well willing to check the proposed duplicate target.
    – Tensibai
    Commented Feb 6, 2020 at 13:54
  • 1
    @Tensibai: sure, perhaps there should not be any comments. I'd be fine with that too, as long as the same use-cases are addressed. I think the comment can be a starting point to discuss the possible duplicate if the OP is open to constructive discourse. Which happens more often than not, actually. Commented Feb 6, 2020 at 14:00
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    @Martijn in my opinion, the OP has no authority over when a comment is obsolete. An obvious case is a comment pointint out an error in a post, and when the error has been fixed, the comment definitely is obsolete and can be removed. In all other cases, it's at least a grey area. If someone asks the OP for clarification, even if it is "Are you sure you want to do it X way, Y way is way more common", helps later visitors. The OP can say "Yeah I wanna do X", but any later visitor may not know of Y, and, with the "obsolete" comment now gone, is none the wiser.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Feb 6, 2020 at 14:24
  • 2
    @MartijnPieters That's probably where we disagree, now OP doesn't have to answer "No, this is not a correct duplicate because ...", they just click and no-one has a clue if the comment had been edited (or not) to give more clue, its frustrating to walk on eggshell ignoring previous interactions. If another comment repeat what was in the dupe, the Op may take has harassment and it will feed the "SO is unwelcoming" trope. Either make it an OP only notice, or let the comment be until close or aging. This half state has more chances to cause problems than it solve IMHO.
    – Tensibai
    Commented Feb 6, 2020 at 14:42
  • 2
    @MartijnPieters Sorry, with the way things are enforced now, I'm always weighting a lot what I say. Fact is, few people understand that and answer in comment saying "No this is not a duplicate, I ask about X not x, are you dumb enough to not see it ?" in comment and we have to guide them through editing their questions to clarify. This is lost now they can just get rid of the remark and won't have any incentive to even express why they don't think it's a duplicate.
    – Tensibai
    Commented Feb 6, 2020 at 15:00
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    @MartijnPieters that's what I call worse, I've no idea what has been said before, comments are not for chit chat, repeating the same advice is seen as rude. Why on earth creating more work than existing ? The notice could have been reworded in various way without causing that much trouble but the choice has been made toward this wording and a workflow creating more incertitude than before... I've a hard time understanding why.
    – Tensibai
    Commented Feb 6, 2020 at 15:18
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    I should have let this too often see example aside as it distract from the point. I've thick skin enough to get over insults when they're caused by a misconception, the problem stand that using a comment for OP only communication is bad and when it start a convo it is often as bad. If the debatable choice is done to addresd the OP, then an OP only notice is what to use, if a comment is used, then it should be written a s an observation and stay until the question is close or the votes age away. Please choose one, but not a muddy middle ground frustrating and likely to spark more hurt
    – Tensibai
    Commented Feb 6, 2020 at 19:15
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    (plea addressed to the organization, nothing personal Martijn)
    – Tensibai
    Commented Feb 6, 2020 at 19:16
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    As an example, I closed (as I have a gold badge) this question. The OP reposted it and got an answer exactly the same as the previous flagged dup. If I didn't have a gold badge, my comments about that the question was a dup would have been deleted, because the OP effectively wouldn't try to implement the solution they were given for their code and said it "wasn't" a duplicate. The fact that they accepted an answer that is identifical to one in the duplicate question proves otherwise.
    – Thom A
    Commented Feb 7, 2020 at 15:36

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