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This is a bit of a follow on from a previous question of mine: Are answers to (very) poor quality questions a good idea?.

Something I see on a pretty regular basis is upvotes of what I deem to be very low quality questions. I therefore wanted some insight from those that might upvote these posts (answers and questions) and see why they feel that are useful, or show research effort.

Take this question, and see the image below in case it is deleted and those with less than 10K rep can't see:

The title states the OP is trying to get the max ID in SQL. The question body appears to be the columns of their table and a bunch of numbers all on one line. There is no other information given. It got four down votes and one up vote.

Let me explain the reasons for my downvotes here:

Firstly, the question. My honest feeling here is this is an awful "question". To start, the OP doesn't even asked a question; it's just a plea for help. Secondly the OP has made no effort to format said "question"; they just dumped their data and expected an answer. There is no additional content to go with it. Thirdly, the problem they are trying to solve is only outlined in the title (and barely) not actually in the content of the question; which is also a really poor way to format a "question". Lastly, the OP has clearly not performed any research; a simple search of "Get Max in SQL" would have told them there was a MAX function in T-SQL.

Being blunt, there are no good qualities about this question, and yet it has an upvote. From a reputation stand point this means that with the "new" scoring process this results in positive rep 10 - (4*2) = 10 - 8 = 2, and because of the order of the votes, it's actually netted the OP +8 rep, rather than 2 (due to a user not being about to have a negative rep value).

To those that would therefore upvote the question, why would you? What about the question is good, so that I can understand your thought process.


Now the answer. Like the question, this is very low quality. Firstly, as I show in the comments, this certainly a duplicate of the question and marked solution in the question Select max value of each group. The answer in said question is literally identical apart from the names of the objects. Duplicate answers are frowned upon in the community already, and as this is such as basic answer, then anyone with a small amount of rep would should know how to find the answer linked above and ask the OP if it answers the problem.

There is also no explanation here; maybe it doesn't need much of one, but it's purely 3 lines of code with no detail. SO has moved on in recent years, and the quality of the post is really important; especially when many similar questions have been asked before. A great way to make a good quality post is to ensure you at least say what is the important part of the answer. Even just the leading sentence "You need to use MAX and GROUP BY to achieve this" would improve the answer's quality in my eyes.

This answer, too, however, has 2 upvotes, and 2 down (2*10) - (2*2) = 20 - 4 = 16; netting +16 reputation. Honestly, for someone with 1K reputation I would expect them to see a low quality post and flag/vote to close and move on, not answer it (but that isn't the reason for my downvote or the reason for the question here).

To those that would upvoted, again, why do you feel this is a useful post? Why would the duplicate I show above not be the better option, when it's been on the site for almost 10 years?


I honestly believe that answering and upvoting such really poor quality questions, like that seen above, is a huge detriment to the site. Even though the question is now closed, the OP got their answer, and didn't bother or need to do any research or even try to figure it out. They have almost certainly learned nothing and they haven't gained any self dependency skills; something that is so important in any IT industry as you need to be able to trust your own skills and also grow them on your own merit. Upvoting these answers/questions does nothing but harm the community, in my opinion, and I want to understand why others think they help it grow.

Thanks.

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  • 15
    Sidebar: downvoting an answer because it already exists elsewhere is… not very helpful. We're here to answer, let people answer. Don't drive out the few people who are willing and able to answer. Vote on the answer on its own merits, not because you expect that the poster should have known something unrelated, like that a very similar answer already exists. (This means in this case the answer was still worth downvoting, because it wasn't very good. If it would have been a great answer, what's the point in downvoting it?)
    – deceze Mod
    Jan 10, 2020 at 11:23
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    @deceze the fact there is a duplicate is far from the only reason for my downvoting. If the answerer had at least explained their answer, and what it does, I wouldn't have downvoted.
    – Thom A
    Jan 10, 2020 at 11:26
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    OK, so take the "duplicate" out of the equation entirely then. Don't even mention it. Don't even think about it.
    – deceze Mod
    Jan 10, 2020 at 11:26
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    But the fact that is does exist, at such a fundamental (and exact) level, does contribute to my reasons, even if it isn't the largest contributor, @deceze . Removing it would feel like I'm lying to the community about my reasons, as I'm not being completely honest. The fact that you disagree that a (exact) duplicate shouldn't be a contributing factor however, in my opinion, is an answer and I'd appreciate you putting that into an answer. If any others feel the same way as myself, then we should be aware that exact duplicates we know exist/find shouldn't weigh in on our vote reasons.
    – Thom A
    Jan 10, 2020 at 11:37
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    'How do I create questions for my voting ring, given that have next-to-no software skills, don't care,about abusing other people and just want rep?' .....'Take an existing Q&A pair, change some text and the variable names, and you're done!' Jan 10, 2020 at 11:54
  • Theory 1, both Answerer and Asker upvoted each other in order to ping each other. The second upvote came from someone that didn't read question title and was pleased to see an answer with so little information. The first guy to answer a poor question get a ton of those. Then sain people came and tryed to 0-ed the answers score. Jan 10, 2020 at 12:52
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    It doesn't take much of a mental leap, surely this was an "ah, finally one I can answer" vote. On a site filled with blind question askers, the one-eyed answerer is king. Well, theoretically. Given that they can't be stopped, there needs to be a mechanism so that users like you don't see these kind of questions. The only one I know is the "Ignored Tags" section. Which does work well for this tag. Jan 10, 2020 at 14:14
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    We cannot win this fight any longer; the only entity that could have helped us has switched sides. It's time for a strategic retreat.
    – jscs
    Jan 10, 2020 at 16:49
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    Upvoting bad questions is bad for the site because it encourages more bad questions to be posted.
    – toolic
    Jan 10, 2020 at 18:05
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    The fact you need to explain your downvote for "bond no|id 44411 1 44411 2 44411 7 44412 3 44412 8" is... depressing... Jan 10, 2020 at 18:39
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    I don't think anyone that has commented disputes that, @toolic . Unfortunately those that I wanted responses from have likely only downvoted and not replied.
    – Thom A
    Jan 10, 2020 at 20:02

1 Answer 1

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Although I can't speak for what's "inside the mind" of those who upvote and/or answer such questions, I can be reasonably confident that at least some of the upvotes are from the same folks who post answers.

This, I can understand (though I don't condone it). They are simply trying to add impact/visibility to their answer by adding same to the question. Also, upvoting will, in their minds anyway, maybe prevent (or, at least, delay) the closure of the question?

What should we do? Simple: downvote the question and any answer posted!

EDIT: The issue of folks answering Qs that are duplicates is a bit more subtle. For example, did the answerer know about the dupe when posting? Is it a 'partial' dupe (i.e. the underlying problem is the same, but there is a specific issue in this question that merits explanation)? (I have posted answers to the latter, which have included the link to the 'dupe' - and left it for others to decide whether or not to close.)

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  • "did the answerer know about the dupe when posting" They probably didn't know the dupe existed immediately when they saw the question, but an experienced SO user (something with 1K rep is certainly used to the SO site ethics in my opinion) would know that how to get the MAX value within a group in SQL will have most definitely been asked many times before, as it's a very basic question. it would be like asking "how to increment the value of a variable in C#". Very fundamental.
    – Thom A
    Jan 10, 2020 at 11:20
  • When I flag dupes, I very often don't know the duplicate exists before hand. What I do see, however, is a very fundamental question, and therefore I'm very confident that there will be one. I rarely find that to not be the case. I wouldn't expect the user who answered, in this case, to be able to identify common questions that aren't so fundamental (that takes much more time). In SQL terms, I would probably say the most common is "how to split a delimited string into rows", which isn't as simple; but even if you search that in a search engine, you find a lot of duplicates
    – Thom A
    Jan 10, 2020 at 11:22
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    @Larnu You have no proof that the answerer didn't attempt to find a good duplicate before giving up and posting an answer instead… Maybe they just suck at finding duplicates, and the SO search system infamously isn't helping much.
    – deceze Mod
    Jan 10, 2020 at 11:25
  • @Larnu I agree! In my main tags (C/C++) there are questions that come up time and time again. As I gain experience (I've only just earned my first "Yearling" badge), I am starting to recognize these and now dupe-flag them. Newer, less experienced users can be forgiven, IMHO, for answering them, though. Jan 10, 2020 at 11:26
  • Isn't it that you cannot upvote answers if you have less than x karma? By upvoting the question, the answerer can expect the OP to reward. It's a bit of a gimme gimme situation. Maybe done by those helping for karma.
    – Everts
    Jan 10, 2020 at 11:27
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    Yes, I think upvoting a poor question makes it very slightly less likely that it will be seen as terrible by others, meaning that an answerer is slightly less likely to get downvotes for answering something that probably should be closed instead. When the asker is new, it also increases the possibility of the asker being able to upvote the answerer, if it bumps them past 15 rep.
    – Snow
    Jan 10, 2020 at 11:31
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    Although I can see you're point there, @deceze I think a lack of evidence they tried is pretty good evidence here. A way of proving something must not be true can often be by being unable to prove it true. Searching trival things as 1, 2, 3 gives a wealth of valid dupes
    – Thom A
    Jan 10, 2020 at 11:31
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    @deceze "You have no proof that the answerer didn't attempt to find a good duplicate before giving up and posting an answer instead…" the answer was posted 1 minute and 30 seconds after the question was. This is not proof the answerer didn't look for dupes but I'd say proof the research effort was not enough.
    – VLAZ
    Jan 10, 2020 at 12:24
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    @VLAZ 90 seconds: just enough time to copypasta the answer into a puppet account or email it to a ring voting partner:( Jan 10, 2020 at 13:17
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    there is a related feature request at MSE: Add an alert when answering a question that has at least a close vote as duplicate. And a fairly thorough discussion here at MSO: Remove the incentive for FGITW to answer well known dupes
    – gnat
    Jan 10, 2020 at 14:06

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