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It’s time to retire the term “rep-*****”

Going forward, “rep-whore” (and its derivatives) will be treated like any other term that’s inconsistent with the community’s “be nice” policy: it will be removed.

Courtesy request: this is not a thread for arguing exactly how inoffensive "rep-*****" is, or an excuse to keep repeating the term.

I submitted a flag on an MSO post which does not comply with the above policy, and included a link to the policy.

The post I flagged is old. But it was made a few months after the policy. I can even see the author had seen the policy announcement.

Secondly, my flag noted the post author had cited their old post, in a comment on MSE discussing recent controversies.

The citation was not at all about the proscribed term. The citation was regarding the post's final, concluding paragraph. However this suggests you need to at least skim the whole post - where the term is used twice - including in the second-last paragraph.

I understand moderating has room for judgement, which may not agree with my own :-). My question is, given the above, why did a moderator decline the flag and say

I...have no idea what you're asking for a moderator to do. [...] if [author] wants to edit, [they] can edit [their] own answer.

The incomprehension is mutual. I don't know how to word my request any clearer than the policy I quoted above.

It sounds as if I am missing some overriding logic here. Some principle that a moderator thought was so obvious, that it was not worth mentioning.

Is there some answer to this puzzle, to help me avoid racking up declined flags in future?

My exact flag text was

Compare https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/281787/it-s-time-to-retire-the-term-rep-***** , including post dates. I tried editing as suggested, but I don't have enough privilege. This post has recently been cited approvingly here: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/REDACTED/#commentREDACTED

Further stipulations

I don't know exactly how the MSE/MSO split worked.

The linked post is on MSE. I tried looking through the whole thread. On the one hand, it doesn't explicitly say it applies everywhere. It might be most relevant to MSE specifically, although the thread mentions both MSO and SO. On the other hand, the post flatly announces the term is not consistent with the CoC, and that we remove such terms. The only qualifications are 1) this is the policy "going forward", 2) if you fall foul of this policy change because you weren't aware of it, that will not cause you to be suspended or otherwise disciplined.

To be clear, this question is not asking about disciplinary measures.

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    What exactly did you say in your flag text as the moderator did not seem to understand the request? Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 10:10
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    "Is there some answer to this puzzle, to help me avoid racking up declined flags in future?" - Don't use mod-flags for things that don't require mod attention, you could ask anyone with >2k rep to edit the post Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 10:26
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    Your flag text isn't explicitly asking the moderator to do anything, the action you want is implied. There are a lot of flags, be clear what you want to happen. Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 10:28
  • @NickAthePopcornKing does that principle apply to "should be closed" flags?
    – sourcejedi
    Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 10:29
  • @sourcejedi updated my comment..., although that was implied Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 10:29
  • "should be closed" flags are mainly handled by the community, not moderators. And what do you mean you don't have the privilege to edit the post yourself? You need a certain amount of characters to be changed, but that should be pretty easy when removing the term "rep-whore", maybe including the sentence which contained it, when it isn't needed anymore.
    – Tom
    Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 10:42
  • @NickAthePopcornKing I see the distinction you mean, ok. I also see a user with >2k rep talking to me :-P. So can you do it? Where should I post the link?
    – sourcejedi
    Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 10:46
  • :shrug:, I'm sure if you include it in this post someone will go and fix it for you Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 10:50
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    @BDL rep farmers is a friendlier alternative, but I'm not convinced it needs editing, the whole post is a bit jokey (from the FPS image, to the use of rep-whores, to the fact it's written as a story ending "The End"), it's also not directed at anyone in particular. (Gone now regardless) Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 10:59
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    @BDL I made the edit already
    – rene
    Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 11:00
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    "obviously at least one user has a problem wit <...>" I sure hope that's not going to be the criterium on what's okay and not.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 11:03
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    @Cerbrus Fine, rep "grinders", I was drawing from the gaming term rather than actual farming, gamified farming (which this would probably be classed as) often doesn't involve care Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 11:03
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    Rep collectors, Rep harvesters, we need additional rep pylons
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 11:04
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    I'm pretty sure this is a duplicate from way back, but I can't find the previous one.
    – tripleee
    Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 11:56
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3 Answers 3

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I read your flag multiple times, taking way longer to process it than I normally spend processing a single flag. It seemed important to you, and you had obviously taken the time to include a lot of links, but... I still had absolutely no idea what action you wanted a moderator to take.

That's why I stated as much in the flag decline message:

I...have no idea what you are asking for a moderator to do.

It was honest confusion, not an attempt at snark or anything like that.

The lesson here is that, when you're raising a flag for moderator attention, you need to make very clear exactly what steps/actions you want the moderator to take. We are not mind readers, and if we can't figure out what you want us to do, then we're going to decline the flag.

Even though we're not mind-readers, I attempted a little bit of mind-reading before I clicked the "decline" button. As I said, I spent way longer reviewing this flag than I normally do with individual flags. You pointed me to a specific comment on Meta Stack Exchange, but I didn't see anything in that comment suggesting that an edit needed to be made. In fact, the comment that you were pointing me to was posted by the author of the post itself, so I couldn't puzzle out why in the world you were raising a flag. I went on to state as much:

There's nothing in that comment that suggests an edit needs to be made, and if gnat wants to edit, he can edit his own answer.

Now, I see that this is a simple matter of "I don't like the term 'rep whore', and so I want a moderator to edit it out of this answer." Well, that would have been a much easier flag to process. It's much more clear and direct about what action you want the moderator to take.

Honestly, though, my instinct would still be to decline that flag. Moderators are not your personal editing valets. If you have not yet earned editing privileges, then you aren't trusted to make edits to other people's answers. It is a rather long-standing principle that moderator flags should not be used to circumvent the privilege system, and for very good reason.

If you want the author of a post to edit it, you can leave a comment suggesting the edit and leave it up to their judgment.

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  • Thanks for all the time you've taken to explain the perspective. I understand SE functions in a very distinct way compared to other types of forum, but I don't have a feel for some of the implications. I'm aware I have a personal problem and I am much too cryptic sometimes :-). I'm still feeling a communication gap here. But I think I've presented all my thoughts (including my reply to you under the other answer). If I can't reconcile your words with Jaydles'... I don't expect to find a new magic form of words that re-arranges the world to my liking :-).
    – sourcejedi
    Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 19:10
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    Couple of key things to note, @sourcejedi. First, SO is a huge site, and mods here are a bit more...brusque? We’re like a very busy coworker. Quite happy to help, in theory, but not enough time to do extra work. Editing a post on Meta falls into that category. We process hundreds of flags per day in an average day on the main site. And yeah, I am a lot less…how shall we say...sensitive...to perceived “vulgarity” there. I draw the line at personal attacks; that isn’t one. I’m not eager to go around censoring words because someone might get their feelings hurting they read it out of context.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 19:28
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Answer copied from comments, to allow clearer endorsement or disagreement :-).

Don't use mod-flags for things that don't require mod attention, you could ask anyone with >2k rep to edit the post.

If I understand what y'all are saying, there's a strong consensus against flagging for this issue. It would have been much better to post a request on Meta Stack Overflow.

So far no-one mentioned Chat specifically as a possibility - which I kinda suck at. Out of the two, I probably prefer writing a longer format request on Meta.

(I felt it would not have been productive to comment underneath the post. I don't think I was likely to persuade the poster that the word is flat out inappropriate, if they hadn't come to that conclusion the first time round. And I didn't want to bring up policy enforcement, when I was genuinely unclear whether it is enforced. You might say I think it's a bad idea to "make empty threats".)


If anyone is interested in clarifying this further, I think my surprise is that a seemingly knowing break of the rule, about "vulgar" language, isn't considered anywhere near the level where it's worth running through a moderator.

I know I said I'm not asking about disciplinary stuff here. I don't need to know the exact details of that... but IIUC, it means this doesn't rise to the level of a "data point" that SO moderators would be interested to hear.

In case there was a concerning pattern of points at this level, we've decided we won't pick it up through different users flagging individual points. Of course that doesn't mean there's no way that such a pattern could be noticed. It just means the approach I had assumed is not considered practical here.

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  • FWIW, I think if you had commented the author probably would've accepted what you said, I think it's a bit unfair to say their mind wasn't previously changed, people forget or let things slip. Additionally, it would be a bit unfair to judge someone or consider this a flag against them (a "data point") as you called it considering this post was 3 years ago. That doesn't mean this kind of thing shouldn't be, but consider that the longest suspensions you'll often see (there are longer) are only a year, why put a black mark against someone for something they can no longer fix? (1/2) Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 14:36
  • Especially seeing as they weren't given the chance (by you not commenting) to fix this, and there is only one other occurence of this particular user using this term since. This kind of language is more an issue in comments, where there is an appropriate flag to use (H/B/A or U/U) and enough of them will almost certainly lead to a chat from a mod, but in a post where someone could edit it out, I think cut them some slack. (Note nothing against what you're saying, and your hearts in the right place, but policing things that happened years ago is difficult). (2/2) Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 14:36
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    No, this isn't anywhere close to being "vulgar" or a "data point" that Stack Overflow moderators want to hear about. You just dislike a term that was used. That's your right, but it's not something that a moderator needs to get involved with. You can see for yourself that in the very Meta Q&A you linked, almost all of the top-scoring answers are disagreeing with the suggestion made in the question, so there is nowhere near a community consensus that the term is inappropriate. Importantly, the answer in question was not attacking a specific person.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 18:11
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Answer copied from comments, to allow clearer endorsement or disagreement :-).

Your flag text isn't explicitly asking the moderator to do anything, the action you want is implied. There are a lot of flags, be clear what you want to happen.

E.g. I could have included "This post uses 'rep-whore'. The term should be removed, according to LINK. Note this post was written after the policy announcement. Also", etc.

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    The actual answer was provided by Nick A. Don't use mod-flags for things that don't require mod attention. This does not require mod attention, we are perfectly capable of editing content ourselves.
    – Gimby
    Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 11:20
  • @Gimby they also suggested to me the linked ruling on the CoC... can be ignored for jokey posts (?), and another person questioned about how we decide what's "okay", when the linked ruling says this is not okay. I can't imagine I'd have much luck simply asking the post author in comments, hey, can we please take out this boys-club language in accordance with this specific policy. I've had a similar success with Meta before, but that was where someone else had already escalated the issue to Meta. What's the escalation chain here? Is it acceptable to jump straight to a Meta post?
    – sourcejedi
    Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 12:02
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    @sourcejedi I would appreciate if you didn't twist my words, I didn't suggest it can be ignored for jokey posts, just that I personally was not convinced and I would not edit it, and I still remain unconvinced that there was any need to do so. I didn't say it shouldn't be, I didn't say that it wouldn't be and I didn't say jokes are exempt from the rules. Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 12:52
  • @NickAthePopcornKing understood, I think. I.e. it was just one factor, among others already mentioned.
    – sourcejedi
    Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 13:31
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    @sourcejedi Yes, also it was more based on personal opinion (I don't find the term that offensive, when used correctly and without targeting) and not one that should be taken as gospel Commented Oct 24, 2019 at 13:37

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