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Prologue

Earlier today, I resigned as a moderator on both Stack Overflow and Ebooks. I feel I owe this community some attempt at an explanation. Please understand that I cannot offer a full explanation of everything that led me to this decision. This is likely going to strike many people as vague, inadequate, and unsatisfying. For that I apologize.

Background

As you may be aware, there is an ongoing wave of moderator resignations and at least one firing across the Stack Exchange network, as summarized and collected in this post on Meta SE. You may also have heard or read in the above post or posts linked therein that there are many frustrated moderators in the SE network right now. That much is true. There's no point rehashing all of it here. And I do not want to publish private or confidential information, so I will not be adding any details or disclosures about what has happened, is going on now, or may be happening in the future. The astute reader can likely figure out 95% of it, anyway.

My Decision

I am resigning primarily due to the same events that led to many of the resignations in the above list. Recent events—many of which are not and will never be public, others of which are not yet public—have forced me to two conclusions:

  1. Sadly, I can no longer serve as a moderator on Stack Overflow or Ebooks in good conscience, and
  2. I no longer want to do so.

I set out on my moderator journey in January 2014, when I was asked to serve as a moderator pro tempore on Ebooks after following it and participating in it as early as its Area 51 proposal. In November 2015, I was honored to be elected as a moderator on Stack Overflow. Both times, I undertook the obligations, duties, responsibilities, and privileges of being a moderator because I loved and believed in the community in question, appreciated the robust rules and norms each had developed, and wanted to give back to communities that had helped me so much. When I stepped down on SO for several months due to major changes in my personal life and severe time constraints, I came back when my time freed up only because I still believed in the community and still wanted to help it.

My resignation is the other side of that coin: I simply will not be able to serve these communities as a moderator in the future, and so I must resign. Many policies, facts, and events have played a role in this, but as I have said above, I cannot fully explain them here. I have wrestled with how to explain exactly what led to my decision to resign. I have concluded that I cannot offer much detail without leaving out even more and muddying the waters.

Edit to address a common question in the answers and comments: Many have asked why I cannot explain my reasoning. The best answer I can give comes from two of my comments below:

Comment 1: Please understand that, just as I can’t explain all of my reasons for resigning, I can’t explain all of the reasons that is so. It may help you to understand that I am an attorney “in real life.” That creates a huge number of obligations to refrain from speaking about various situations or issues. Let me be extremely clear that I’m not (1) saying that legal issues had anything to do with my resignation, (2) accusing anyone of lying or anything else, or (3) stating any legal opinions on anything. I am saying that I, personally, cannot offer the kind of explanation people might want. Full stop.

Comment 2: All of us are subject to various limits on our conduct—legally, ethically, professionally, or otherwise—which I am willing to believe all of us take very seriously. Some of us are subject to more such constraints than others. If you look at the list of resignations in the MSE post that I linked to under background, you will see that several former moderators offer detailed explanations of their decisions. Nobody—as far as I know—is trying to hide anything that should be public, but that doesn’t mean we are at liberty to say whatever we want.

What's Next

What happens now? I'm not sure. I am weighing whether and to what extent it makes sense for me to continue to participate on SO, Ebooks, or other SE sites. I'm going to take a break from them for a bit, in any case. It's going to take a good, long while to wash out of my brain some of the things (images, rants, or otherwise) I've encountered as a moderator, and getting my brain out of "moderator mode" seems in order.

I have been honored to serve this community. Thank you, and I wish you all the best.

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    People should boycott SE. Time to show who's responsible for the company's success. No more answering for a week and we'll get the good old, real SO back
    – baao
    Commented Oct 1, 2019 at 18:51
  • 79
    @chrispbacon: That's unrealistic. The small portion of users that visits meta isn't going to have an impact if they go on strike.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Oct 1, 2019 at 18:56
  • 54
    As much as I sympathise with your reasoning, I'm sad to see you go as well, Ed. You've always been a positive influence. The best to you too.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Oct 1, 2019 at 18:59
  • 10
    I'm glad to hear that you're making the right decision for you. I'm just bitter about losing you as a mod. (Though to be fair, you haven't visited the Metahounds in quite a while...)
    – Makoto
    Commented Oct 1, 2019 at 19:11
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    From an average user like me who hasn't had the honor of interacting much with the mods but see the incredible work you do, thank you for your years of service. It doesn't go unnoticed. You are the people who made me want to be apart of this site when I first started
    – GBlodgett
    Commented Oct 1, 2019 at 19:43
  • 67
    Next year Mod election: We need 20 new moderators ... requirement: nothing, simply be registred to the site... Commented Oct 1, 2019 at 19:56
  • 29
    Thanks to all the moderators who have served. It's sad to see everyone go. Who would've thought that pronoun-gate would be the final straw for so many moderators and users?
    – Mysticial
    Commented Oct 1, 2019 at 20:14
  • 84
    @Mysticial While the proposed policy is ridiculous enough, it seems that how they've handled it thus far was the tipping point for many, moreso than the actual policy itself. They pretty much showed that they have no respect at all for those who have contributed so much to their success over the years.
    – reirab
    Commented Oct 1, 2019 at 21:58
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    @reirab but... but... culture of inclusiveness!
    – Patrice
    Commented Oct 1, 2019 at 22:10
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    @TemaniAfif: If there was a moderator election right now I'd totally run. My "vote for me" pitch: I want to be a moderator so I can join the resignation club.
    – Cornstalks
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 4:01
  • 18
    @paddy you cannot remove your contributions. All you can do is to have your account deleted and your name removed from your contributions. Please don't do that. If you want to protest then don't contribute any more (for the time being)
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 6:10
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    @paddy Be aware that blanking your contributions has not worked for other users. It is considered vandalism and will be undone. I say this without any judgement of what would be right, just stating a fact. Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 7:58
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    I have the feeling, that they'll soon have to invest most of their ad revenue into paid moderators ...as the treatment of voluntary moderators does not exactly seem fair or even match their own CoC. Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 11:28
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    @EssKay I'm not sure to whom you're speaking, but "love of power" would not accurately describe any of the moderators on this site or those I've gotten to know on any other SE site. Certainly, moderators appreciate the tools they have to address problems directly, but (1) a power-hungry mod would not last long, and (2) those who are resigning are resigning because of concerns with recent developments on the site; they certainly aren't resigning as some misguided attempt to hold on to power.
    – elixenide
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 18:30
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    @EssKay Are you seriously suggesting there should be repercussions for volunteers who want to stop volunteering? Moderators are stepping down for a lot of personal reasons, not in an attempt at some kind of union-like work-stoppage.
    – user229044 Mod
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 19:04

9 Answers 9

159

Damn, Ed, who's going to investigate voting fraud as much as you did?

First Robert (who I rarely talked to, our paths didn't have the time to cross, but I respect the experience) then Ed, who--with great pleasure--I've worked with on flags & voting investigations.

Enjoy your spare time not handling the flags. Let's hope that Stack Exchange is now fully understanding the cataclysm that is happening and will do something to fix this, if there's still time...

So sad to see you go, and it was an honor working with you during this too short period.

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    Thank you for the kind words. It was an honor and a pleasure to work with you, as well.
    – elixenide
    Commented Oct 1, 2019 at 19:19
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    @EdCottrell - I have to apologize for being away and a little late, but I'm really sorry to see you go. Like has been said, it was always great to work with you on handling weird voting rings or whatever the day threw at us. You should be proud of the work you did here, and best of luck in the future.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 22:06
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    Thank you, @Brad. I always enjoyed working with you, and I wish you all the best as well.
    – elixenide
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 22:27
106

These are difficult times, where we need moderators we can rely on. You have been and still are on my trust list.

I can only thank you for the effort you put in the communities you participated in as well as for when we had your company in the SOCVR chatroom.

Please do drop by in chat when you feel the time is right. We're happy to have Smokey make a coffee for you.

Take care!

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    Thanks, rene! You're one of the people who has made this community worth fighting for.
    – elixenide
    Commented Oct 1, 2019 at 19:29
  • Can casual SO CVR room users get a Smokey coffee as well? :=)
    – halfer
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 13:09
  • @halfer only for the privileged users ...
    – rene
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 13:15
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    Ha, a VIP coffee bar!
    – halfer
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 13:17
62

Thank you for your service.

I have one request - for you, and Robert, and others stepping down: I would appreciate at least knowing why you can't reveal the reasons for your resignation.

Yvette and George have both flat-out contradicted claims made by resigning mods. George claims that Monica's from-memory transcript isn't an accurate account of events, and Yvette says that Monica had a "stance of intolerance towards minority groups" (presumably related to the firing?) that many moderators (the resigning ones?) supported. Even allowing some room for ambiguity, imprecision, and hyperbole, these aren't claims that I can easily resolve with what we've heard from Monica, Caleb, or the other resigning mods.

Meanwhile, George says that by virtue of leaving you are no longer bound by the moderator agreement and are at liberty to disclose whatever you wish, and remarks, accurately that it is "striking" that no such disclosure has happened. One naturally has to question why.

It looks like one side of this conflict is lying to us. This sort of situation - having the staff and mod team split into two camps who are, in effect, each accusing the other of lies - is unprecedented as far as I know. I'd like to know who is telling the truth, and I think that - in the context of your side being accused of resigning under dishonest pretences - it could well be justified and honourable to provide at least some more information.

Without such a leak, I am not sure what the rest of us can do besides pick which side we trust more based on what else we've seen of their character.

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    At least include everything I said instead of pulling out a sentence out of context.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 10:53
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    I don't think anyone's lying. The situation is really that complicated, and emotions still run high. One thing that most - from both "sides" - seem to agree on is that SE didn't handle this very well.
    – yannis
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 10:58
  • 30
    @GeorgeStocker The transcript is there for anyone to read. I obviously cannot reasonably quote the entire context here, because it's literally multiple pages of chat; even if it doesn't overflow the character limit, it'd be bigger than all the rest of the content on this page combined. I'm not sure what points I've omitted that you think change anything here; if there are any specific mischaracterisations or omissions you object to, I'll try to fix them.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 10:58
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    Note that Yvette was not a moderator at the time all this transpired. She also only has indirect information about the exacts, as far as I know.
    – Erik A
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 11:02
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    I've edited based on the comments from George and Erik here and others in chat to try to more faithfully characterise their statements, some of which I may have read too much into.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 11:17
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    Please understand that, just as I can’t explain all of my reasons for resigning, I can’t explain all of the reasons that is so. It may help you to understand that I am an attorney “in real life.” That creates a huge number of obligations to refrain from speaking about various situations or issues. Let me be extremely clear that I’m not (1) saying that legal issues had anything to do with my resignation, (2) accusing anyone of lying or anything else, or (3) stating any legal opinions on anything. I am saying that I, personally, cannot offer the kind of explanation people might want. Full stop.
    – elixenide
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 11:30
  • 6
    Please also understand that everything I have ever said on this site or any SE site—including in my post here and the preceding comment—is my personal opinion and mine only.
    – elixenide
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 11:37
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    I do not think there is any lying but diferent interpretations. There seems to be strong disagreement about what constitutes a "stance of intolerance towards minority groups". Caleb's resignation notice has been described ... Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 12:37
  • 8
    ... as "hostile towards transgender individuals", "an explicit refusal to listen" and "dehumanizing" for some users. Other users have rejected such characterization. I suggest you go take a look at the above links, it might help you make up your mind a little. Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 12:37
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    @Goyo is right. It's 2019 and there are WILDLY different views on what exactly constitutes "hostility", "discrimination", etc. Even on the pronoun thing there's huge differences. Pretty sure most people (even those who have a problem with trans-ness) agree that, say, insisting on calling a trans person by their old pronouns is rude. I agree - unacceptable for a mod IMO. Refusing to, say, look up & use 35 different pronouns though, "xer" or whatever, on pain of expulsion by fiat, with no wiggle room like avoiding using pronouns altogether? Arguably a different story
    – Pekka
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 13:11
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    Mark, you wanna know why some of us are so reluctant to say anything on the matter? When somebody did before yesterday, I had to take the entire day off, and I don't know why I came back today. I've fallen physically ill again, and I have a lot on my plate other than Stack, and still I'm not thinking of resigning. But I do think I need to go on a break yet again, because I don't think I could handle the imminent attention, speculation, hand-wringing, and overall FUD, and I don't want to end up getting interview requests from the media or whatever just because I said one thing too much.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 13:13
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    In short, "anything I say can and will be used against me", so... personally I'm going to avoid that (and I was utterly dismayed to learn of the leaks after I came back today). And maybe some of the others here are doing it for the same reason.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 13:15
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    ... I don't think anyone is lying about the facts. Given that now different people most of us trust implicitly obviously have a wildly different interpretation of what happened, to really make up our own minds we'd have to see what literally transpired, which seems unlikely but who knows. That nobody is leaking them may as well be testament to the ex-moderators' integrity even past a written agreement, rather than there being some cover-up of why they really left because public opinion would condemn their reasoning.
    – Pekka
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 13:16
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    Folks: it has been a trying few days. I ask that you not use ed’s Resignation post to host a mystery dinner party. Let’s keep it to the topic: Ed resigned and we are sorry to see him go.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 14:32
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    Your post clearly makes the case that there are two sides to this issue and discrepancies in the accounts of what has happened. So regarding "I am not sure what the rest of us can do besides pick which side we trust more...", why feel obliged to pick any side at this stage, in the absence of adequate details on which to base your decision?
    – skomisa
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 15:18
39

I've seen you around the PHP tag here and there, had only a couple of interactions with you, but the work you have done is so much appreciated by myself and so many others in this community.

I realize a lot of us contributors only see a small fraction of the work you've done behind the scenes to keep things running smoothly, and that the real value which you have contributed here is immeasurable.

I'm sad to see you go, and I'm sad to see the current climate that we seem to be going toward here. I wish you the best of luck.

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Ed I had to downvote this, as I did Robert's post, as I'm sad to see you go. You were a great moderator and will be sorely missed.

I hope you and your family stay well.

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    Thanks, Yvette. Take care.
    – elixenide
    Commented Oct 1, 2019 at 20:38
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    @EdCottrell I feel ill, I hate to see who's next
    – user3956566
    Commented Oct 1, 2019 at 20:43
  • I'm really sorry for the distress you were subjected to. If anything I said in the past contributed to this, I am sorry. I actually enjoyed the YouTube videos and was saddened to see that you took them off air yesterday, while I was actually watching one! All the best, in a few weeks you'll feel better. Peace!
    – Mari-Lou A
    Commented Oct 5, 2019 at 7:13
  • @Mari-LouA some people were abusive - but it was the sheer pile on. I wasn't doing anything to be horrible. I have got my back up, as the conversation has lost perspective as to the reasons the network took action. That was all I was trying to point out.
    – user3956566
    Commented Oct 5, 2019 at 10:57
  • Step away, don't get pulled in, disengage. If you take what seemed to be an unpopular stance, then you have to be prepared to face the storm. Just a take a break and do the occasional lurking. Think of your health, first and foremost.
    – Mari-Lou A
    Commented Oct 5, 2019 at 11:39
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    @Mari-LouA yes, wise advice. I reposted the videos and will leave them up. I need to be careful not to get re-involved on the site just now, as I need the physical and mental health break. Thanks for your supportive comments :) I will see you again for sure.
    – user3956566
    Commented Oct 5, 2019 at 12:08
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Good bye Ed.

I'm sad to see you go but not that sad because the company doesn't deserve your service.

I didn't interact with you much but only one or two times in Tavern and you sounded knowledgeable.

Everyone will miss you in this community but above all, this is a for-profit company and we can't support the latest decision they've taken.

The fired moderator, Monica was a moderator on The WorkPlace too and now The WorkPlace does not have any active moderators. All of them resigned and only one is left, who isn't active that much. The wave has hit the shores really hard and it'll take days or weeks or may be months to rebuild everything. The company needs to gain trust by the people and the mods again and that's hardest part of any company.

0
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An Update on My Decision

I have monitored events intermittently since my resignation and come to a painful conclusion: I must bid farewell to these sites. I will no longer participate on the sites I previously moderated or on any other Stack Exchange sites.

This decision was forced upon me, as Stack Exchange (the company) has breached the trust of its users, especially its volunteer moderators, and has shown no interest in repairing the harms it has inflicted on the community, including specific harms to the reputation of one of the most-respected moderators in the network’s history. The company has made clear that these errors and changes are permanent and beyond question or debate. Indeed, its handling of recent developments has shown that it intends to continue to lead by fiat, without meaningful input from users. That is the company’s prerogative, but this course of action makes these sites inhospitable and unworthy places to invest my limited time.

In light of these facts, I cannot and will not further contribute here. It has been a pleasure knowing and working with many of you, and I hope we may meet again under fairer skies.

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    [the sound of our silent weeps] Commented Dec 18, 2019 at 1:43
  • 1
    I've closed all my accounts, but two. It's been a huge upheaval and so many people are unhappy, and for a range of reasons. I'm willing to stick by this site and one other site. I will sorely miss you. I wish you and your family all the best. Kisses and love to you all. xoxo Oh and I'm downvoting this, as I'm too sad to see you go.
    – user3956566
    Commented Dec 18, 2019 at 1:59
  • 1
    Thanks, @FélixGagnon-Grenier
    – elixenide
    Commented Dec 26, 2019 at 20:54
  • 1
    Thanks, @Yvette. Best wishes to you and yours, as well.
    – elixenide
    Commented Dec 26, 2019 at 20:54
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I felt compelled to add my two cents to this discussion since this morning I load SO and see another resignation article in the right sidebar.

I am not a moderator in any SE community. I am writing this 'answer' with the purpose of asking a few questions to the community members who are privy to the details and also to share my own thoughts on these recent events, from the perspective of a 'regular joe' user who sees these daily 'Why I am resigning' articles.

I've spent what I consider to be way too much time digging through links to comments/answers/resignation posts and I have some vague idea of some of the things that have led to this, but I still cannot explain to an outsider what exactly happened here.

Please understand that I cannot offer a full explanation of everything that led me to this decision. This is likely going to strike many people as vague, inadequate, and unsatisfying. For that I apologize.

Quotes like the one above can be found in all of the recent resignation posts and they do little to nothing to garner support for whatever cause you have chosen to cease fighting for. I respect all community members who are privy to these 'secrets' and who choose to keep them secret, however, what exactly or who are you trying to protect by withholding the details from the public?

The community and myself included are incredibly appreciative of the time moderators spend maintaining the communities, however, this type of behavior reminds me of high school cliques.

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    I asked the same, even though I kind of knew the answer. In short, marginalized groups (women, transgenders, people with certain religions, and so on) are alienated by the way some people comment on Stack Exchange, and they've complained about that. Stack Overflow the company wants everyone to feel welcome and included, so they took action to that, like changing the policies. Some mods don't agree with said policies, especially around "pronouns" to be used for nonbinary-identifying people. People started disagreeing, people got fired, people quit.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 14:50
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    At least, that's the gist of it as far as I understand it. In fact I don't understand it, I literally do not grasp the gender/nonbinary/pronoun stuff. It does not live at all in my Western European world. Like not at all. Nobody I know here gets it. But eh.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 14:51
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    When moderators receive their diamond they have to sign the moderator agreement. It is agreed that what is shared in moderator only rooms, stays in moderator only rooms. That is the reason that you'll find hardly anyone that wants to share with evidence what happened, exactly because not everyone might fully grasp what or who needs to be protected. It is showing how invested the mods are that even after they handed in their diamond the mod agreement still holds for them.
    – rene
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 14:58
  • @CodeCaster thanks for linking your post and commenting on mine, I found them both to be informative.
    – Peter
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 14:58
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    This has nothing to do with “cliques.” All of us are subject to various limits on our conduct—legally, ethically, professionally, or otherwise—which I am willing to believe all of us take very seriously. Some of us are subject to more such constraints than others. If you look at the list of resignations in the MSE post that I linked to under background, you will see that several former moderators offer detailed explanations of their decisions. Nobody—as far as I know—is trying to hide anything that should be public, but that doesn’t mean we are at liberty to say whatever we want.
    – elixenide
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 14:59
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    There is a very important but subtle detail missing in the comments here: Most mods resigned over how Monica was fired, not the actual policy change at all. I will not go into the details of the Monica vs CM conflict that triggered all this (which is even more nuanced), but the way the company unceremoniously disposed of a long-time community (unpaid) moderator (that has been nothing but exemplar in their conduct and prudence) without any attempt at reconciliation is considered by many as one too many a misstep by the company. Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 16:26
  • 1
    Also note that, according to Monica's post, she exchange emails with the Community Manager after the chat so not even the mods resigning in protest saw the communication that led to her getting fired.
    – BSMP
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 16:52
10

Thanks for making this a featured post. As someone who does not participate in chats and community discussions, I still like to be informed when moderators are leaving, not just when they are elected.

I have little doubt that Stack Overflow has done what any reasonable company would have done in their place, and if some decisions feel disappointing to you and other experienced members here, it's only fair that you stop contributing.

I hope you won't regret the time you spent moderating here though, and you know it's very appreciated. Thank you.

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    By the time you answered this post was no longer featured ;)
    – Rakete1111
    Commented Oct 2, 2019 at 16:04

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