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I ran into a case which is kind of frustrating to me.

  1. OP (which is a new user), posted a question of low quality, and the point of the question was hard to understand.
  2. The question have been downvoted rapidly (-3).
  3. I tried with an other user to understand the question by asking questions to the OP
  4. The question have been put "On hold" for the reason "unclear"
  5. I tried to help OP to increase the quality of the question, he made poor edits.
  6. I finally edited it by myself, with the elements of the comments.
  7. Edit was accepted
  8. I was waiting for the question to be reopened to help the user
  9. Question is deleted.

I don't understand why the question have been deleted. Here was the link of the question: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/57752342/how-to-get-the-perform-a-difference-in-each-sublist-of-a-list. It has been deleted "for reasons of moderation".

It's a bit frustrating to me because I spent time improving the question, and I had an answer to provide but I wasn't able to because question was on hold.

Screenshot of post:
enter image description here

Screenshot of edit:
enter image description here

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  • 14
    @JeanneDark That's untrue. The question was deleted by 3 users with enough rep to cast delete votes (>20K rep). Only they can explain their motivations for casting a delete vote, but I guess they didn't deem the edit sufficient to allow re-opening. As a sidenote, never edit in Thank you for the future help on behalf of someone else. Thank you is considered noise and doesn't belong in questions, I'd have rejected that edit
    – Erik A
    Commented Sep 3, 2019 at 14:15
  • 13
    To be frank, I don't understand why people spend effort deleting questions like these. I mean, it's closed already with no answers and a negative score. If it fails to reopen in a few days time it'll be deleted automatically by the roomba script. So all deleting does is prevent the OP from improving the post in a way that makes this answerable. Feels wrong somehow. Commented Sep 3, 2019 at 14:28
  • 13
    Quick deletion of non-salvageable questions has the positive side-effect that prevents the post to accumulate further downvotes. If a question can't be edited into shape reasonably, deletion helps both the site to keep a higher signal/noise ratio, and helps the poster because they avoid being downvoted into a q-ban.
    – yivi
    Commented Sep 3, 2019 at 14:35
  • 6
    There are substantial "fairness" problems at play. The [python] tag gets a lot more questions than can be answered by the available contributors, answer rate is only 50%. So how many programmers with a decent Python question did not get help because y'all were working on rescuing this one? Not where it ends, this question is likely to receive more DVs, it already does. Putting this user in a very deep hole that is going to get him banned with no decent way to get out of it. Clearly this has to stop somewhere, bullet 4 is about the right time for almost any question. Commented Sep 3, 2019 at 14:46
  • 4
    @adiga that behavior presents another problem: it being “homework” is not a reason to close as too broad. There have been more and more instances of closers abusing close reasons; and so now we have to keep an eye out for that.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Sep 3, 2019 at 14:55
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    @GeorgeStocker it should be closed not because it is homework but because OP has not made any effort to solve the problem or hasn't posted their effort. It is clearly mentioned in this faq "Make a good faith attempt to solve the problem yourself first. If we can't see enough work on your part your question will likely be booed off the stage; it will be voted down and closed." How do I ask and answer homework questions?
    – adiga
    Commented Sep 3, 2019 at 14:59
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    "Homework without effort is 'legal'" @GeorgeStocker That does sound like the opposite of what What topics can I ask about here? states: "Some questions are still off-topic, even if they fit into one of the categories listed above: ... 3. Questions asking for homework help must include a summary of the work you've done so far to solve the problem, and a description of the difficulty you are having solving it." (leaving aside whether that applies to this question.)
    – Ivar
    Commented Sep 3, 2019 at 15:11
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    @GeorgeStocker you seem to be fixating on this being a homework question. If we disregard that aspect, should the question remain unclosed? The question seems poor, IMHO.
    – Script47
    Commented Sep 3, 2019 at 15:57
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    @GeorgeStocker I agree with the posts you link, but that doesn't change that the official article about which topic's are allowed on SO explicitly state that questions asking homework help "must include a summary of the work you've done so far to solve the problem", which seem to contradict your comment. So either I'm misinterpreting your comment or that article, or one of them is incorrect.
    – Ivar
    Commented Sep 3, 2019 at 16:03
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    @GeorgeStocker maybe we differ in our philosophies with regards to closing but surely that question is 'Too broad'? It lists requirements and that's all. No indication to any prior attempts or anything of the sort or even any code (not that code is a requirement).
    – Script47
    Commented Sep 3, 2019 at 16:04
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    @GeorgeStocker just because a question is answerable doesn't make not broad or close vote worthy.
    – Script47
    Commented Sep 3, 2019 at 16:16
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    @GeorgeStocker It is too broad because it just states the problem and there is no clue about what is the actual question here (beyond, write my code for me). We don't know whether OP does not know how to formulate the algorithm for the task, whether he does not know how to iterate through list, how to add items to list... he could be asking all of the above questions at once. That is what makes it too broad.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Sep 4, 2019 at 9:02
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    @GeorgeStocker The policy since many years is that we no longer care why someone asks a question, but hold all questions to the same quality standards. I believe the homework part in the on-topic moderation rules is merely a left-over from a time when we used to have a homework tag. All questions must include a summary of the work you've done so far to solve the problem, and a description of the difficulty you are having solving it.
    – Lundin
    Commented Sep 4, 2019 at 9:42
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    No, George. Users voting according to their own judgement is certainly not "voting according to their gut", and it is not "abusing the close system". It's the way the system is designed: users interpret the guidance and community consensus and cast votes according to their judgement. It's personal opinion that as long as it is not fraudulent according to the rules of the site it is not "abuse".
    – yivi
    Commented Sep 4, 2019 at 13:13
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    I have not voted nor will I vote on that question, in the "grand scheme of things" it does not make much difference and is only tiring to see these wars, but I'm not convinced that moderators should vote multiple times on a questions (specially if another mod have locked it), we would normally let community moderate these and it's not constructive to force own will. If the question is "at heart" I suggest opening a meta specific for this question and community can decide if it should be open or not. Commented Sep 4, 2019 at 13:34

2 Answers 2

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TL;DR - Don't rapidly vote to delete questions that can reasonably (even if you have no faith that it would) be edited back into shape.


Observations:

  • There is an automated script that deletes poorly received questions with no upvoted answers within 9 days of it being closed.
  • Heavily downvoted questions have much less visibility than neutral and positively voted ones, so the damage such a question causes is relatively small.

For these two reasons, voting to delete a question that could be stretched to be useful if enough effort was put on it, even if you have no reason to suspect that the question would ever be improved in practice, is not only potentially harmful for false negatives like this one, but is honestly not worth your effort or limited number of votes.

Save your delete votes for posts that can never be improved while keeping the original intent. A question like "Which is better, React or Angular?" will never be a good fit on Stack Overflow, no matter how much editorial work is done on it.

The risk of false negatives (deleting a salvageable post) is much greater when deleting these posts manually, than the risk of false positives (keeping an unsalvageable post alive), and even if such an unsalvageable post happens to slip between the gaps, the negative consequences are not great because the system penalizes downvoted/closed questions anyway.

The expected utility from voting to delete on-hold questions is a net loss. I advise everyone to just not do it, and let the system do what it's good at, because it is fairly good at this.

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  • 8
    Honestly, ever since getting the delete privilege, I've been confused as to when it should be used. The guidance here is great, but it would be nice if it were spelled out somewhere official. Commented Sep 3, 2019 at 16:56
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    This particular question cannot be improved by anyone but the OP. It cannot get "edited into shape". Still not a reason to delete it pre-maturely though.
    – Lundin
    Commented Sep 4, 2019 at 9:27
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OP (which is a new user), posted a question of low quality, and the point of the question was hard to understand.

Not only that, but the actual problematic code isn't present. You can't post a question on SO that just goes like "I want this, I want that". They must post a question about a specific technical problem they are facing. If this problem is related to their attempt to implement the code, we must see the code or we can't help them.

Specifically, in order for a question to be on-topic, it must fulfil this:

Questions asking for homework help must include a summary of the work you've done so far to solve the problem, and a description of the difficulty you are having solving it.

(I believe the homework part is a left-over from a time when SO had a specific homework tag, but that one was removed long time ago. All questions must fulfil the above, regardless of the reason why someone is asking them.)

The original question had nothing of that and still does not, after several edits.

I finally edited it by myself, with the elements of the comments.

Still there is not a specific technical problem to solve. This is not a code-writing service where you can post your wish list and get code written for free.

This means that the question is unsalvagable by anyone but the OP. A question is first put on hold and then after the OP's been given time to fix it, closed. Since the OP has still not made an attempt to state their specific technical problem, the post will eventually get deleted.

The only problem here was that it got manually deleted a bit too early. Not everyone can respond within hours. The OP should be given a fair chance to fix the question.

It's a bit frustrating to me because I spent time improving the question, and I had an answer to provide but I wasn't able to because question was on hold.

You can't fix this question, only the OP can. You shouldn't post code answers to questions that are unclear or lacks a specific problem statement. "I want it all and I want it now" is not a question.

Why on earth the question was re-opened, I have no idea. It has been appropriately closed again.

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