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I am currently under the process of extending Stack Overflow for Teams within a medium-sized company that has also employees located in Germany. For these employees the German law applies which requires that company-wide software requires some approval from the Works Council.

Unfortunately, this made some of my German colleagues reluctant to spreading the word about the platform.

From what I have heard from other software implementations this can be problematic for various reasons, but one important one is related to "tracking user activity".

As far as I know, Stack Overflow displays some information that might be interpreted as "tracking user activity":

  1. Last seen within the profile page

Last seen

  1. All activity in the platform along with a timestamp for each action (requires visiting each post)

Questions and answers / user activity

Edit date and time

I have asked a person from the management about these issues, but I received a rather general/unclear answer:

  • there is not a need from the Work Council's approval while in the testing phase (currently I am in a private beta phase with a limited amount of licenses, so this is clear)
  • not clear if approval is needed if using the platform is 100% opt-in (not required for normal activity)

I am wondering if anyone has tried implementing Stack Overflow for Teams for a Germany located team and can share some of their experience.

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  • 6
    added the legal tag, if only to route it correctly within SE.
    – rene
    Aug 18, 2019 at 6:44
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    There's lots of ways to be tracked. You could see when someone last asked a question, last answered one, last commented, last voted to close etc. Are we to remove them all? Aug 18, 2019 at 10:31
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    @RobertLongson - yes, indeed there is a lot of tracked information. Colleagues from various other European countries were baffled when they found out about this being an issue that delayed some projects into becoming productive. I know that some of the company-wide software are customized for DE users to not show such information, so it is an important factor to consider for the stakeholders. Aug 18, 2019 at 11:28
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    Some background information: Works councils in Germany (Wikipedia). Aug 19, 2019 at 4:55
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    What about email (something that can potentially reach all if forwarded)? All receivers can see when it was send and for email threads, who responded and when. And any kind of chat (Skype chat, Slack) reveals availability (essentially when you are at work, at meetings, etc.) and presumably time stamps. Aug 19, 2019 at 5:05
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    @PeterMortensen I live in germany and last time I worked at a big corp there they were notoriously stingy with timestamps. No timestamps on the internal chat, and the email server would purge them on the way on internal emails.
    – Magisch
    Aug 19, 2019 at 6:19
  • My company allows timestamps in e-mails, but generally it is hard get some working software that displays (can track internally and aggregate) users actions along with the timestamps. However, it is not clear if this is also a requirement for optional software (e.g. e-mail or JIRA are mandatory where I work, I intend to implement SO for Teams as fully optional). Aug 19, 2019 at 6:48
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    I would suspect that this makes it impossible to use SO Teams not only in Germany but anywhere in the EU. Until SO officially drops the "ad experiment" they launched this summer (or if Google surprisingly develop ethics overnight), I think they'll have a hard time demonstrating GDPR compliance. Are ads shown in Teams too?
    – Lundin
    Aug 19, 2019 at 9:36
  • @Lundin I can't speak for everyone, but most companies I know, including small companies, mandate adblock or at least offer it for all company pcs and browsers. For some even multi-layer adblock is required for all user with only limited whitelist capability. So this is probably an intra-organizational issue if one at all.
    – Magisch
    Aug 19, 2019 at 9:41
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    @Lundin Also, the followup from the team on this might be of interest to you here: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/332229/… the long and short of it is this is a service provided by a third party ad platform and SE considers it ok despite it using fingerprinting and recording IPs.
    – Magisch
    Aug 19, 2019 at 9:44
  • @Lundin - I see no ads in Stack Overflow for Teams except those for the Public Stack Overflow itself (e.g. return to Stack Overflow and a plethora of links at the bottom of the page). Aug 19, 2019 at 9:47
  • @Magisch Hand-waving GDPR compliance as a non-issue because companies use ad-blockers seems kind of wrong? Like saying burglary is a non-issue because companies use door locks anyway...
    – walen
    Aug 29, 2019 at 10:35
  • @walen I wasn't handwaving it, but any company that is big enough to benefit from this likely has their own DPO (or an external one to consult), which will recommend policies and can give guidance to make something otherwise incompatible with GDPR useable in the company. If there's a will to use SO teams, GDPR will not be the thing that stops a company from using it.
    – Magisch
    Aug 29, 2019 at 10:53

2 Answers 2

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Solved

I have managed to find a (sort of) solution for my issue after consulting with several persons who had similar issue in the past:

  • if the software is still in testing phase, Works Council should not be involved
  • if the software is 100% opt-in (the employee can do their job perfectly fine without it, they use it or not as they see fit), Works Council need not be involved
  • if the software is mandatory (e.g. e-mail client, ticketing system), Works Council approval is required

We are currently using option number 2 (any employee decides whether to use the platform or not).

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  • If the software would have been mandatory, another solution would also have been to remove or deactivate these tracking features of the software (if that is possible). Or use an alternative that can do that. May 24, 2023 at 20:20
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Sorry, but unfortunately we're not going to be able to implement the requested changes. At the moment, we have a long list of features we'd like to implement, and we just don't have the resources right now.

I've also done some quick Googling, and everything I find says that the tracking requirement only applies to tracking personal use. I don't think that Teams would apply since it is related to work. If you could link me to something more relevant in the comments, I'd be happy to review it and bring it up with the product team. (The document you linked explain what a Work Council is but doesn't include anything about tracking.)

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    I have just realized that someone has changed the tag from discussion to support, but my intent was to discuss with fellows that have struggle with the same issue. I understand that such a change is quite big and it does not make any sense to do in the foreseeable future. Thanks. Aug 28, 2019 at 10:56
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    Ref. Work Council - I could not find either, but I have personally worked on projects that also affected DEU users and I am sure that "tracking" was an issue. I will post a separate answer because I have managed to clarify this topic. Aug 28, 2019 at 10:56

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