69

Once again, there's a small hullabaloo in chat started by someone threatening someone else with... Moderation.

That doesn't work very well. As a general rule, folks don't like threats. So if someone's already upset / angry / disruptive... Threatening them isn't likely to make them less upset / angry / disruptive. This is... kinda well-known.

A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.
-- Proverbs 15:1

Now, I'm not saying you have to put up with abusive behavior. Rather... Try not to escalate it.

  • If you need to ignore someone, ignore them - don't say "I'm going to ignore you".
  • If you need to kick someone out of a room, kick them out of the room - don't say "I'm going to kick you out of the room".
  • If you need to flag someone's message, flag it - don't say "I'm flagging you".
  • If you need to suspend someone, suspend them - don't say "I'm gonna suspend you".

And if you don't need to do any of those things... You also don't need to make an empty threat about doing them. Say something nice instead; say something calm, considerate, compassionate. Or just change the topic entirely.

Unlike the main site, chat offers a lot of tools to ordinary people aimed at helping them deal with other people. That's good and necessary for a real-time chat system, but it makes everyone responsible for ensuring that these tools are used carefully - and threats should never be a part of that.

16
  • 9
    (reposted with permission) Aug 6, 2019 at 20:49
  • 2
    Why repost instead of undeleting Shog's? AFAICT, the content is identical.
    – Mysticial
    Aug 6, 2019 at 20:50
  • 11
    @Mysticial: He didn't have the bandwidth to deal with the trollarity. Aug 6, 2019 at 20:51
  • Ah. Understandable. So just a change in post ownership.
    – Mysticial
    Aug 6, 2019 at 20:52
  • 23
    Let's leave the religious arguments out of it this time. It's just a quote, and an apt one at that. If Martha Stewart had said it, it would still be as apt. Aug 6, 2019 at 21:10
  • This habit to tell prior doing comes from MMOs chats, there if you ignore someone they will not know it, unless they try to whisper you. Punishing spammers (who maybe not yet aware they are spammers according to local rules) is saying "Ignored", then /ignore nick, done. The guy gets feedback and has options to stop doing (if he doesn't know rules) or continue (if he is abuser and want to get into many more people ignore lists). I don't use SO chats, so not sure if you get "Nick ignored you" notification, but in any case it's not a problem to me. Other cases are only making question broad.
    – Sinatr
    Aug 7, 2019 at 9:36
  • No there is no popup that tells you you are ignored. Afaik, there is not really a way to find out that you were ignored at all. There is a chat event that you can listen to when you are ignored but that's about it I think. Aug 7, 2019 at 12:19
  • 2
    @geisterfurz007 note that the author meant that you should not threaten people with this. I think it's fine and constructive to announce that you are ignoring a user. But only if you really are ignoring them. Then there are fewer surprises for the ignored user and less annoyance for third parties in the same room. Aug 7, 2019 at 14:45
  • 1
    @Andras I know. My comment was supposed to be a clarification for people like Sinatr who might not know the specifics of chat. Aug 7, 2019 at 14:47
  • The fact is that SE mods are abusing their power and arbitrary deleting totally appropriate comments and editing questions regarding privacy issues on stack exchange websites. Freedom of speech on SE (while respecting others) is gone. Aug 7, 2019 at 15:21
  • 16
    @PedroLobito: "Freedom of speech" never existed on Stack Exchange. SE is a privately-owned website. Aug 7, 2019 at 15:31
  • @RobertHarvey Is this post prompted by that question from yesterday, from the c# room? If that is the case, while I understand this is a repost, and that means the context is not specifically only about that question, it really did not start with the "threat of moderation", but with the other user being completely inappropriate.. Threats of moderation happen because of inappropriate behaviour, saying situation starts by the threat of moderation is... an inacurrate assessment of the what happens. Aug 7, 2019 at 15:41
  • 12
    Doesn't matter who starts it, @FélixGagnon-Grenier - don't escalate! I've yet to encounter a situation where a threat of moderation worked, but I've been in plenty where actual moderation worked. And I've been in plenty of these situations and made plenty of pointless threats.
    – Shog9
    Aug 7, 2019 at 15:46
  • 3
    @HereticMonkey: In practical terms, it is only a human right if it's recognized as such by a relevant body, such as a government or a private website. Absent that recognition, it's merely a principle. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech Aug 7, 2019 at 18:42
  • 2
    This ain't about SO's CoC, it's a general guideline on how to moderate chat as a Room Owner...
    – Cerbrus
    Mar 3, 2021 at 14:30

2 Answers 2

12

I would also add that it is okay to tell someone that they are being a burden. It is okay to tell them they are depleting the patience of those present in the room, which is a precious non-renewable resource. In order to not escalate the issue, do this in a calm (but assertive!) manner.

If you have a help vampire and you are in the mindset that you can kindly do so, point them to the help vampire guide. I'm aware this might be seen as unwelcoming these days, but it very nicely explains the problematic behaviour patterns that we often see in chat. And a lot of users (the ones who actually take the time to read it) will often try to do better. You only have to get the clear message through: let's not waste each other's time.

And then if they refuse to change their behaviour you can calmly but firmly moderate them out the door.

But these should be the last steps before hard moderation, as an attempt to steer back problem users to mutually acceptable behaviour patterns. Before this happens regulars and room owners should of course try milder and subtler ways of persuasion in order to signal to the user that they should change their behaviour.

6
  • 8
    eh, there are better ways to express this sentiment without resorting to name calling. Even something as simple as stating that they need to produce more before we can help (an MCVE), and then sticking to that message (and moving stuff that doesn't meet the criteria to trash), is enough.
    – Kevin B
    Aug 6, 2019 at 20:47
  • 1
    @KevinB again for completeness' sake you can read some similar objections raised in an earlier life here Aug 6, 2019 at 20:49
  • @KevinB are you saying it's better to point them at the guide than just call them a help vampire?
    – Rob Grant
    Aug 6, 2019 at 21:16
  • 8
    No, i'd rather neither be done. Set expectations and enforce them.
    – Kevin B
    Aug 6, 2019 at 21:17
  • 3
    I can see starting with the sentiment (internally) - this person is a burden. This person is a help vampire. And if we err too far on the side of tactful we're no longer saying anything. But tact is about avoiding needless offense. I'd look for any other way to communicate what the other person should do - "XYZ is a much better website for the type of discussion you want" - vs most sentences that start with "You are..." Being calm is always best, but the other person can't tell if we're calm or not. Aug 7, 2019 at 14:58
  • 8
    Yeah, in cases like this saying something like "I'm really running out of subtle options when it comes to asking you not to do [thing]. Why not take it to [place] if you [feel strongly | urgently need help]?" That's not a threat, that's just a statement of where things are, a final firmer prod for the person to self-correct, and some suggestion as to what they can do instead. But I generally only put that effort into folks that usually otherwise elevate the group dynamic.
    – Tim Post
    Aug 7, 2019 at 18:56
6

Thoughts:

Where applicable, add explanation. If you kick a user and they come back even more furiously because "they did nothing wrong", it doesn't help the situation, in my opinion.

Obviously that doesn't make sense when you just ignored someone.

Give a warning. Although it kinda goes against what is in this question, I tend to give people a chance to see their flawed behaviour and adapt accordingly. Being rammed out of a room or the entire chat site without a chance to change is quite unsatisfying. Especially given that different rooms have different cultures, there might be a thing or two you drop that isn't seen as appropriate in one room but would have gained star after star in another.

I guess having a preemptive warning on the rules page if it exists would work just as well.

5
  • 4
    Yes, but keep it short. "You were kicked from this room because <x>", but don't let it turn into a discussion. Usually, that ends up with that user being kicked again, for being disruptive...
    – Cerbrus
    Aug 7, 2019 at 6:35
  • 7
    "Kicked; please be respectful of others" is fine. "I will kick you if you don't show some respect" is very much not fine. "Please be respectful" is fine. There's no need for threats (even if you call them "warnings") - if someone isn't going to heed a polite request, they're unlikely to respond well to a threat either.
    – Shog9
    Aug 7, 2019 at 15:43
  • I really don't like setting threats equal to warnings. I get what you mean and it still feels wrong. Users should have a place where they know from what is ok and what is not. Should each chatroom have a roompage that is mandatory to read in before then? That would be something I'd agree on. But having no idea what is ok and what is not and getting kicked for something that you didn't know was accepted in that room doesn't sound cool. Aug 7, 2019 at 16:44
  • That could be something as harmless as playing with bots. If someone new joins Java and starts playing with the bots that are there, I move the stuff to a trash room and point them to the sandbox with the note that extended conversations with bots are not accepted in the room. Is that alright or is there already a hidden "threat" that ignoring that will lead to a kick? Aug 7, 2019 at 16:48
  • 5
    If you're not threatening anything, it isn't a threat @geister. "Please read the room rules" is a request. "Read 'em or else" is a threat.
    – Shog9
    Aug 7, 2019 at 17:10

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .