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Suppose I am in chat, and I feel like a Room Owner is picking on me. Maybe they kicked me for a reason I don't agree with, or they're just generally interacting with me in an unwelcoming manner.

What is the best way to bring this issue to the attention of a higher authority, i.e. a site moderator?

A number of potential approaches come to mind, which I have some misgivings about:

  • Tell the Room Owner about my concerns. As much as I love the concept of interpersonal conflict resolution, in practice this usually ends with a reply of "no, I'm being perfectly fair"
  • Go into a different room and raise my concerns there. I suspect this will get a reply of "this isn't really on-topic for this room"
  • Make a post on Meta describing the incident. If the community sides with the RO, then the post will receive many downvotes. I worry that the moderation team will skip over a heavily downvoted post. Additionally, I've seen at least two answers on Meta that say that making a post for a specific grievance isn't particularly effective.
  • Use the "flag for moderator" button in the triangle menu to the left of each chat message.

The final option seems promising, but I'm confused about how, specifically, I should flag the problem. Should I flag the message I wrote that got me kicked? Or the message that made me feel unwelcome? What if neither of these messages exist, because I was kicked with no apparent provocation or ensuing discussion? What kind of details should I put in my flag? Would it make sense to create a temporary room just for me and the moderator?

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    Postscript. If it's not obvious, this is an attempt to write a canonical post that future grievance-havers can refer to, so they can have their best chance of feeling like their voice has been heard (even if they happen to be in the wrong). I am happy to incorporate feedback and suggested edits, to make this question as clear and as useful as possible to the community.
    – Kevin
    Aug 6, 2019 at 17:28
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    I wonder why a canonical question need links to other questions when it says they don't help? Isn't the point of creating a canonical answer to funnel all relevant information in the question and answer? So the block of links is wasted space in my opinion.
    – Tom
    Aug 6, 2019 at 17:36
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    I agree that the final paragraph is not completely essential to the question. I put it in mainly to demonstrate that I tried to do my research beforehand, and to forestall comments like "Have you tried looking at [question that I already looked at, and which only partially addresses my concerns]?" If this post does turn out to meet canonicity standards, then we can probably remove that section.
    – Kevin
    Aug 6, 2019 at 17:39
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    Ah heck, I'll remove it now. Future readers, please refer to the original revision of the question to see a list of posts that I believe are not ideal dupe targets.
    – Kevin
    Aug 6, 2019 at 17:41
  • Related, and probably referring to this post: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/388214/6296561
    – Zoe is on strike Mod
    Aug 6, 2019 at 18:29
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    Can we also get some guidance when an RO is treated unfairly, both in the room and on Meta?
    – rene
    Aug 6, 2019 at 19:27
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    @rene I think that would make a great standalone post :-) Readers of this post are not likely to be sympathetic to our plight, though ;-)
    – Kevin
    Aug 6, 2019 at 19:30

1 Answer 1

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This is not the Official Moderator Response to this topic, but here's what I think are reasonable guidelines.

Before escalating: try to resolve the problem amicably

Yes, the question says that this doesn't often work, but it's still worth trying. The problem may be the result of a simple miscommunication, or even a misclick on the part of the Room Owner. Spend a message or two trying to come to a mutually satisfactory understanding. That said, not all disagreements can be resolved this way. If it doesn't seem like you're getting anywhere, especially if the Room Owner says "please drop it", that is the time to end the conversation.

Also check the room's rules to see if they have a customary conflict resolution procedure. For example, I've seen some rooms that have a quarterly "community feedback day" where users are free to propose changes to room rules and discuss administrative concerns, without fear of reprisal or being shut down. This may be an effective way of enacting real structural change, if you've got the patience.

If that didn't work: determine the nature of your grievance

  1. If you were punished because you violated a rule that you think is silly, this may not merit moderator attention. Room Owners have considerable leeway in dictating the rules of conduct of their room. These rules may be stricter than the ones enforced on the main site. It may not be obvious why a rule is in place, but there is usually a good reason. Do your best to adhere to the same conduct that the other users follow.

  2. If the rule directly violates the Stack Overflow Code of Conduct, then this may merit moderator attention. Site rules trump room rules, and moderators have a stake in keeping it that way.

  3. If you feel that you are being personally targeted, and held to an impossible standard that other users are not held to, then this may merit moderator attention. If you are really being singled out to be bullied, then you are entitled to be heard.

When you've decided that you definitely need moderator attention: how to get it

Flagging is the most direct way of getting moderator attention. Use the "flag for moderator" button, available in the triangle menu to the left of every chat message.

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It doesn't matter very much what message you flag, specifically. Reasonable choices include:

  • The Room Owner's message that you think is unfair.
  • The message you wrote where you asked why you were being treated this way.
  • The message you wrote that the Room Owner indicated was the reason for your treatment

You can also flag a message that isn't in the room. Go to the Sandbox, or create a new room, post a message there, and flag that message.

Only moderators can see moderator flags, so don't worry about retaliation from Room Owners for flagging in this way.

The moderator flag menu will prompt you to describe your flag. Include a link to the room, and however much detail you can fit into 201 characters. For example:

I am in the chat room https://chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/0. I am being treated unfairly by Room Owner Kevin. He kicked me, and said that my question was dumb. I think something should be done.

If you need more than 201 characters, you can flag any question or answer on the main site (preferably a post that you wrote), in which case the limit is 500 characters. Be sure to make it clear that your issue is about chat and not the post you're flagging.

After a moderator reads your message, they may come into the room, or invite you to a private room, to discuss the issue further.

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    My guts say there is something missing / awkward with this whole answer and the context set in the question. I'm not sure if it is just tone or wording but I get this uneasy feeling that with this advice RO's are going to be faced with lots of disgruntled occasional chat users that claim that they didn't get what they set out for and now blame the RO for that fact. And then I find myself again on a daily basis in a private room with a mod explaining what the chatroom house rules are.
    – rene
    Aug 6, 2019 at 19:41
  • Unfortunately I don't know how to fix that here in text but maybe my reasoning helps other readers to suggest some tweaks, either to the post or to me.
    – rene
    Aug 6, 2019 at 19:41
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    My experience is that ROs are already facing disgruntled chat users, since their first instinct upon being kicked is to protest about it at length in the room. I do understand your concern that making this information available may increase the amount of moderator-mediated discussions ROs will have to sit through... But in practice, I don't think it will come to that all that frequently.
    – Kevin
    Aug 6, 2019 at 19:47
  • Maybe it would make sense to funnel some users away from the moderator queue by describing when it's appropriate to make a post on Meta about the problem instead. I'm not actually sure when that's appropriate, though.
    – Kevin
    Aug 6, 2019 at 19:49
  • Your example flag text should be text the user could actually send as a chat flag. Currently, the text can not be sent as a chat flag, because it exceeds the maximum length of a chat flag. You may also want to discuss the different lengths of chat vs Main/Meta custom flag text and that the user has the option of flagging on Main/Meta instead of chat, if needed. The limits are: 201 characters on chat flags, 500 characters on Main/Meta post flags, and 200 characters on Main/Meta comment flags.
    – Makyen Mod
    Aug 6, 2019 at 19:57
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    If anything, meta should be involved if the whole chat room is a mess or causing issues on either meta or main. If you bring an dispute with an RO to meta it quickly becomes about the user itself not about their role. And I honestly hate those witch hunt posts, nothing good comes out of them, only more cruft.
    – rene
    Aug 6, 2019 at 19:58
  • @Makyen, thanks, I was not aware the chat flag box had a character limit. Can you elaborate on how to flag on Main/Meta? I'm hesitant to recommend flagging a post using a box labeled "I am flagging to report this answer as..." in order to signal that there is a problem in an unrelated portion of the site. Or is that the standard procedure?
    – Kevin
    Aug 6, 2019 at 20:02
  • I'm against funneling users to Meta. Meta is usually not good for this type of issue, where there's an issue with a specific person. As rene said, doing that usually degenerates. If Meta is to be involved, Meta should be a stop after flagging for moderators, if the user doesn't get an acceptable moderator response. However, I'd say that for issues about a specific person, then "contact us" would usually be the step after a moderator flag (after waiting for the flag to be handled). Meta is good for discussing policy, but usually not the actions of a specific person.
    – Makyen Mod
    Aug 6, 2019 at 20:14
  • @Kevin For flagging, when you don't have a post about which you are flagging, it's standard procedure to pick a post, any post, but usually your own, or one that has some relationship to what you're flagging about. The key is to clearly explain in the flag text what it is you are flagging about. When I do this, I usually make it clear in the first sentence/first few words the thing that I'm flagging about, if possible with a link to the problem.
    – Makyen Mod
    Aug 6, 2019 at 20:19
  • Ok, cool. I'll add detail about Main/Meta flagging to the post.
    – Kevin
    Aug 6, 2019 at 20:53

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