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In Sara Chipps' answer explaining why Hot Meta Topics has been removed she explains the following:

I’d like to add some context to the “why” we are doing it. Tim, kindly, wanted to shield me from ire, however, in taking this job I signed up for this. I'd like to come here, own my decision, and deliver this feedback.

Stack Overflow Employees have panic attacks and nightmares when they know they will need to post something to Meta. They are real human beings that are affected by the way people speak to them. This is outside of the CM team, who have been heroes and who I constantly see abused here.

I can’t, with good conscience, force anyone to participate in a venue that causes that type of psychological damage at work. The CMs feel this is something that can be remedied, and I believe them. However, until then, I can’t sleep at night knowing that we are forcing people to participate here as part of their jobs.

We're removing Hot on Meta as I don't want to send new people to a place where people have these experiences. Full stop.

(Full text added to avoid accusations of things not being said, emphasis mine on the part of interest.)

I posted a comment asking:

Why don't you stop forcing people to participate in Meta instead of removing Hot Meta Topics?

Unfortunately my comment was worded shorter and came across as rude, resulting in it being deleted (which I accept and apologise for), but I am still interested in finding out that answer to the question.

Removing HMT doesn't stop the staff having to participate here, stopping forcing the staff to participate here does!

So why wasn't this action taken until a better solution can be found rather than the action that was?


@MarkAmery had a good comment that reaches to the heart of what I'm not understanding:

I think this is a fair question deserving of a proper answer. I still don't understand the logic. As far as I can recall (and I may be wrong), staff posts have literally never appeared in HMQ, because they get featured instead - and presumably still will, if the staff do decide to keep interacting here. HMQ is for coordinating important community curation stuff. So why did Sara choose to take an approach that guts the community's productive self-organisation while not obviously doing anything at all to shelter staff from hostile feedback? I'd still like to understand that.

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    Because it is part of their job to communicate about their findings?
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Jul 31, 2019 at 10:35
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    Presumably, your comment was deleted because that point had already been made many other times over the last few days, both in other answers to that question and in the very active chat room attached to that answer, which is where its comments were migrated to.
    – duplode
    Commented Jul 31, 2019 at 10:39
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    Honestly I'm not entertaining this. It's inflammatory and there's been a lot of discussion over it. I recommend you go to this chat room to ask this question
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 31, 2019 at 10:40
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    @YvetteColomb, what? This is exactly what we're being told to do? I know there isn't a lot of good faith going around at the moment but please give me a little and trust that I am genuinely interested in the answers. Commented Jul 31, 2019 at 10:49
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    @RyanfaeScotland there's a whole chatroom dedicated to this discussion under the answer. It's a raw issue. Your comment was on the rude side. It gets to a point where moderators just tired of pointing out this out. Can you understand that point of view? I'm keeping the heat off the employees, as clearly they're wanting space. Allow things to unfold. We don't need anymore storms in tea cups.
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 31, 2019 at 10:55
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    @YvetteColomb I think this is a fair question deserving of a proper answer. I still don't understand the logic. As far as I can recall (and I may be wrong), staff posts have literally never appeared in HMQ, because they get featured instead - and presumably still will, if the staff do decide to keep interacting here. HMQ is for coordinating important community curation stuff. So why did Sara choose to take an approach that guts the community's productive self-organisation while not obviously doing anything at all to shelter staff from hostile feedback? I'd still like to understand that.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jul 31, 2019 at 10:57
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    Yes, absolutely @YvetteColomb, it wasn't my intention to be rude, it was my intention to be short and to the point. Everyone is having to deal with a lot just now, my rational on keeping it short is I don't want to add to the amount of stuff to deal with by making my 50 character question a 500 character essay, but I do still want to ask questions where I feel clarity is lacking. FWIW "It came across as rude" would be a satisfying answer to the "Why was it deleted part" Commented Jul 31, 2019 at 10:59
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    @MarkAmery I totally understand why people want answers. There are no employees active on the site right now. I went to look for them. I think this is something that needs to be addressed by them. There's no point us discussing it without them. I'm just stopping what I know they hate. People may not like me for that. But If I cannot see the right person available to give an answer we can discuss it all day and night and still not get the right answer.
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 31, 2019 at 10:59
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    @YvetteColomb Fair enough. I concede that a bunch of angry people with no inside information speculating amongst themselves is unlikely to lead anywhere productive. It's truly sad that we have no path to even asking staff questions remaining, though.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jul 31, 2019 at 11:02
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    @RyanfaeScotland: I'm sorry for my part in that. As Yvette has stated, things are a little raw right now. I've cleaned up the commentary on Cerbrus' post. If an employee wants to step forward and answer, this post can easily be re-opened for that (the employees know where to find us if they don't hold a diamond or can flag the post).
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Jul 31, 2019 at 11:09
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    @YvetteColomb To give an idea of what to expect in future: do you / the mods intend to close all questions that can only be answered by staff? If not, should we nonetheless expect them all to go unanswered henceforth? And - if you know and are willing to share - are the previously active CMs like Shog and Tim and Catija now forbidden from posting here, or will we at least still have them around? (All this maybe deserves a Meta post later, but I'm busy now and without HMP the value of actually formulating posts rather than treating Meta as a disorganised chatroom seems questionable anyway.)
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jul 31, 2019 at 11:16
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    It’s not the intent of this particular post, but these questions also come across as wanting to debate the validity of individual points without accepting the entire thrust of the argument as rooted in good faith and valid. When someone (anyone) says, “look, it’s not working out, I feel uncomfortable around you”, responding with “you have to satisfy my every counterpoint for me to accept that you’re uncomfortable around me” is not constructive, and from a practical standpoint will only make things worse. Regardless of actual intent, that’s how debating the “why” comes out.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Jul 31, 2019 at 11:37
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    I feel your example is a little needlessly charged towards an abusive relationship @GeorgeStocker, but I guess that is what we're dealing with so let's run with it. I'm not asking why anyone feels uncomfortable, that has been made quite clear. In my eyes someone has said "look, it’s not working out, I feel uncomfortable around you, I'm moving to Alaska". I am saddened that you are uncomfortable around me, you've told me why and I understand that, I want to sort it out and get our relationship on track again, but I am still questioning why you think going to Alaska is the best option? Commented Jul 31, 2019 at 11:56
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    @ryanfaescotland at the point someone is saying “I’m moving to Alaska”, asking if you can work things out isn’t going to work. What might work is giving space, and working to introspect and improve your behaviors that predicated the situation. The relationship between meta and SO the company is a relationship, and right now this is where that relationship stands, from my perspective.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Jul 31, 2019 at 12:20
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    @GeorgeStocker At risk of being a broken record: the problem with the "moving to Alaska" analogy is that removing HMQ has no obvious bearing on how much interaction Stack Overflow employees have with us. The situation more resembles "I'm uncomfortable around you, so I've decided to cut the phone line so you can't talk to your friends any more, but I'm still going to stay and live in the same house." It serves as a punishment, but not as a way of actually reducing the interaction between the two sides; indeed, if anything, it increases it.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jul 31, 2019 at 13:44

1 Answer 1

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I think you misinterpreted that answer as a statement claiming they are forcing employees to participate in Meta, where I think that answer can be summarized as: "I wouldn't force them, because..."

So, to answer your question:

"Why are Stack Overflow Employees forced to participate in Meta"

They aren't. It's their own choice.


That said, if someone has nightmares about posting something on Meta, maybe they're not the right person to post it in the first place...

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    Appreciate the revised answer @Cerbrus and apologies for earlier. I do not think I am misinterpreting the answer but accept that it could be the case. As you've probably noticed I've revised the question too to try and be clearer / more palatable, I point this out only for information and don't expect anything from yourself as a result. Commented Jul 31, 2019 at 12:10
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    An apology? On Meta? We have to be toxic! ;-) (No herd feelings :D)
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 31, 2019 at 12:12
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    I had my fingers crossed. :) Commented Jul 31, 2019 at 12:17

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