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The following answer:

was flagged as NAA but was declined:

]

but to me, it seemed like a genuine contender of the NAA flag:

  • Request for clarification ('how do you declare $step?')
  • Suggestion based on guess work/lack of definity

To quote NAA:

This was posted as an answer, but it does not attempt to answer the question. It should possibly be an edit, a comment, another question, or deleted altogether.

I definitely believe that this answer should have been a comment and so did the OP in their response to my comment.

Am I missing something or was this a mistake on mod's end?

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    NAA is for posts that are not attempts to answer, so things that should be a separate question or a vote or just deleted. Thinking something might be better as a comment doesn’t make a post not an attempt at answering. Even when the attempt is based on guesswork it is still an attempt at answering. Commented Jul 6, 2019 at 0:06
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    @MartijnPieters How in the world a request for more information would ever clear the bar to be an answer? <--- this is a request for more information, therefore not an answer.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 6, 2019 at 19:21
  • 4
    It reads like an answer to me. There's some guessing or speculation involved. The opening question could be construed as "should be a comment" or it could be more of an "ask the obvious" type observation. Despite that, it is an attempt to answer the question. It might be right, it might be wrong, but it is an answer. Commented Jul 6, 2019 at 19:32
  • 9
    @Braiam because it can also be read as “It depends on how you have declared $step, but you are probably getting a collection and in that case you have to insert in a loop”. And then it isn’t a request for information anymore, it becomes a context framing prelude to a solution. Isn’t English a wonderful language? Commented Jul 6, 2019 at 20:43
  • 6
    @MartijnPieters As it's currently written you have to do mental gymnastics to read that as an answer. If you really wanted it to read as an answer, then you should have edited it, instead of just declining the flag and leaving the answer as it is. Answer should unequivocally read as answer. If it doesn't, then it isn't one.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 6, 2019 at 20:46
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    On the comment from the OP in your screenshot: If the author says it's not an answer, can we take their word for it?
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 7, 2019 at 0:39

2 Answers 2

4

Caveat: I have the utmost respect for my fellow mods, so this is my own take as I'm changing my views towards moderating. It's not intended to say "hey that mod was wrong".

My changing moderation

FWIW I would have deleted it if I had handled the flag. Not because it strictly is not an answer, but because it is low quality.

Lately I am becoming more liberal in accepting flags on answers. I'm using my mod powers to help clean up the site of low effort posts. By that I do not mean a one liner that is a perfect answer and that doesn't happen often. I mean those types of answers and questions where people have not bothered to invest the time and effort that many people do on the site.

There's been so much discussion on the site about the quality of the content and the lack of change in managing the content, I'm doing my bit to help folks who see stuff and flag it.

The problem with this

is... I'm becoming more liberal and it is an individual moderator decision and judgement, so it's wise to go with the majority of flow when flagging, as there's no guarantee of who will handle the flags.

So why am I bothering to say this?

Because by putting it out there it will help affect change. The site is community run. Even though the 'overlords' make decisions on UI changes and feature requests, we (the community) still run the site. We can still drive changes. This is one change I'm hoping to start driving. Helping the community. I am community elected after all. I make mistakes, always have always will, but I do listen to the community and strive to help people.

The site is not static, the scope has changed over the years and we are allowed to move the line on what we deleted with flags, this will only happen with community involvement and by sensitising people to the idea of changing the nature of the flags. Just a bit, so if an answer - even if it is an attempt to answer - deserves downvotes, and clearly is not a decent standard why can't a mod just delete it from the flag queue? As it stands it takes such a high rep and several votes to delete posts. For a mod it's just that one, and with a flag, that means two people have reviewed the post. It just relieves that pressure a little more.

Sorry to hijack the thread

Let me know if you like this idea with your votes.

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  • This should probably be a feature discussion, but I didn't want to go ahead and presume, so am testing the waters here. If anyone else feels the same way, a carefully crafted question may be helpful. :)
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 7, 2019 at 4:04
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    I remember asking this and you (among others) were all for it but nothing ever came from it, sadly.
    – Script47
    Commented Jul 7, 2019 at 14:57
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    I don't actually want moderators deleting valid attempts at answering questions. I think that is a really bad idea for the reasons that are brought up every single time someone makes this suggestion. Again. This serves only to confuse flaggers and creates somewhat of a call-to-action to change something that has many good reasons not to change, and no good reasons to change. This is not useful.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 7, 2019 at 15:07
  • @Script47 yep we see eye to eye and the only way we can effect change is to put it out there. If people don't want it, meh.. shrug
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 7, 2019 at 15:13
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    I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you here. I strongly feel that moderators should not make themselves the supreme judges of quality. Especially when it comes to answers, up- and downvotes are a mechanism that actually works when it comes to judging posts, and high quality answers do rise to the top. Poor answers don't even pollute the search results, poor questions do. I think this is an area where the use of mod delete votes is not appropriate.
    – Baum mit Augen Mod
    Commented Jul 7, 2019 at 21:33
  • 4
    ... not to mention the fact that we'd be feeding incorrect audits into the review queue by deleting answers that were flagged as NAA, which might lead to users into getting banned incorrectly. Commented Jul 7, 2019 at 23:13
  • 2
    @BaummitAugen well, you are supreme judges of quality. You judged, that no matter what, low quality post should stay. If you don't want to be judge of quality, then don't reject flags that try to address said quality. That's what happens when you handle a flag. You become a judge.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 8, 2019 at 3:21
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    @BhargavRao they are already banned incorrectly by doing the right thing: improving the quality of the post on the site.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 8, 2019 at 3:23
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    @Braiam "You judged, that no matter what, low quality post should stay." That part is not correct. When I decline a flag (ftr, I was not involved in the specific flag discussed here, but in the general case), I judge not that the post should stay, but that it should not be deleted by a moderator. I merely refer judgement back to the community, which is the body that should in my opinion judge the quality of posts. What I do judge when handling a flag is not the quality of the post, but whether or not the request for moderator action was valid.
    – Baum mit Augen Mod
    Commented Jul 8, 2019 at 8:38
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    @BaummitAugen "but that it should not be deleted by a moderator" and that's a judgement. Don't you get it. Once you decide that an action should be taken you are becoming a judge on content. If you don't want to judge, the correct path is to recurse yourself. If someone wants to delete content based on the quality of the content, and you don't want to judge based on the content, then you should recourse yourself of any action that requires a judgement on content (deletion, editing, voting, etc.)
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 8, 2019 at 11:42
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    "but that it should not be deleted by a moderator" also, by rejecting the flag @BaummitAugen , you are preventing non-moderator from acting via queue.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 8, 2019 at 11:42
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    @Braiam I never said I don't want to judge the content. Of course I judge it when handling flags, how else would I decide which button to click? What I argued above is that I should judge whether something is an attempt to answer or not, and that I should not judge whether the attempt was good or not. And that is for the reason that I don't want moderator delete votes and NAA flags to be used as some kind of super downvote. Use your downvotes for bad answers.
    – Baum mit Augen Mod
    Commented Jul 8, 2019 at 11:51
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    That's the thing @Baum, "whether something is an attempt to answer or not" is a quality of the post. A bad answer, never answers the question, because it doesn't solve the problem asked. A non-useful answer solves the problem asked, but it does in a sub-optimal way. That's what the downvote button is for. Usefulness. A bad answer is not only not useful, it isn't one that answers the question asked.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 8, 2019 at 23:48
  • @Braiam I totally agree with your comments.
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 9, 2019 at 1:39
  • @Braiam you're conflating "attempts to answer the question" with "answers the question". The second is much more ambiguous and can be interpreted in a number of different ways. The first is completely unambiguous. It is very easy to determine if a post is an attempt to answer the question regardless of topic or domain knowledge. Determining whether or not a post answers the question is not only ambiguous (does partially answering the question count? Does answering a different interpretation of the question count? etc, etc), but it requires domain knowledge.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 19, 2019 at 23:53
-1

That, it isn't an answer. To be read as an answer, it has to be edited to look like one. Doing mental gymnastics to interpret a post as an answer isn't a job moderators should do, and if they want to, they should do the extra mile instead an read the question too, as they usually reject to.

An answer should be of highest quality at all times. That, doesn't even reach the status of answer, and even if it did, it is a lousy one, something that no one would bat an eye to delete.

That post should have been either edited into one answer, by someone knowledgeable enough to actually provide a solution or deleted and posted as a comment. That's not the kind of content a site that wants to be a FAQ, is meant to generate.

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    I see the attempt to answer, so do many other people. That you can't seem to find it doesn't mean it isn't there.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 7, 2019 at 0:34
  • 5
    "An answer should be of highest quality at all times." Which is why we can up-vote and down-vote, very low quality items can also be removed via another method. In this case NAA is for something clear not an answer or an attempt of an answer. This is an answer, as such the mod made the correct choice. Commented Jul 7, 2019 at 0:58
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    @TinyGiant "so do many other people." and many more see that as a not an answer. See, if it isn't that obvious to half the population, maybe it isn't obvious at all.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 7, 2019 at 2:19
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    @SpencerWieczorek that's only here, on SO. Other sites routinely delete subpar answers even if they do answer the question via queue. See this example discussion
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 7, 2019 at 2:21
  • I totally agree with this. But it's also that the nature of flags have been so strict and I'm hoping we can remove that and help curate the quality more from a moderator perspective. Please see my answer
    – user3956566
    Commented Jul 7, 2019 at 4:02

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