37

The most recent example I'm aware of is this one (10k rep only), where a user mistakenly interpreted the ^ character as an exponentiation operator instead of correctly identifying it as the XOR operator. However, I've seen this happen a few times in the last few months to various questions of varying quality, and I'm confused as to why these questions get deleted.

Fine, whatever, the user goofed, the question was (correctly) tagged as a duplicate and got downvoted (correctly) for showing a lack of research.

But why was it then deleted?

My understanding of the model that Stack Exchange uses is that questions tagged as duplicates, for unregistered users, redirect to the question they were tagged as a duplicate of.

Which means that duplicate questions are, nominally speaking, a good thing for the stack: they enable us to better optimize search engine utilization, to help make sure that when multiple people ask the same essential question in subtly different ways that would normally get past an algorithm, we can instead ensure they get directed to the correct posts that will best answer their questions.

Deleting these questions, on the other hand, negates this benefit.

What about my understanding of the policy is wrong? Is there a reason I'm not considering why it's important for questions like this to be deleted?

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  • 17
    We have a very serious problem with Google, it punishes sites that creates new pages that are mere links to old content. That chicken came to roost a year and half ago, it stopped ranking SO content. There is no point to what we do when programmers can't find stuff back. Pretty doubtful that this is fixable, it however won't ever get better when we don't delete the crap. Jun 17, 2019 at 23:32
  • 11
    @HansPassant This is the first I've heard that this might be a specific issue, and contradicts what moderators have told me on other stacks, is there anywhere I could go to learn more about this phenomenon?
    – Xirema
    Jun 18, 2019 at 1:02
  • 1
    Can't post this as an answer now, but some leads on why this was deleted. 1) The title of the question suggests issue with the ^ operator, while the duplicate is related to how to raise number to a power. 2) If you search the exact question title on Google, you will find question regarding "Why 2 to the 0 is 1?", which are irrelevants. This backs CodeGray's answer saying that question involving operators are usually hard to find by search engines. 3) The question got to -8 before being closed / deleted, this is kind of repellent for anyone hiting this question, even before seeing the dupe.
    – Holt
    Jun 18, 2019 at 7:02
  • 3
    Why is opinion-based a close reason on meta? You have to have an opinion in order to make a discussion. That's different from the main site. Jun 18, 2019 at 7:53
  • 1
    Note, also, that it would've been auto-deleted as downvoted without an answer if it got closed as a duplicate before answers came in (which probably should've happened). I'd leave the fact that this one got closed by experts out of it, since similar questions without answers get deleted by the roomba, and they can't get answers if they're closed fast.
    – Erik A
    Jun 18, 2019 at 9:09
  • 3
    @Trilarion true but an opinion is not nearly enough; you need to make a case too. The opinion-based close reason is suitable for those meta posts which absolutely do not want to do the latter. "It is stupid you need 2k rep to be able to edit without approval, it should be changed!" is a perfectly valid opinion to have, but it is absolutely not a valid meta discussion post.
    – Gimby
    Jun 18, 2019 at 12:27
  • I think "tagged" is an unfortunately word choice in this context. Jun 18, 2019 at 12:47
  • 5
    Google is big and important. It is not the be-all and end-all of search. There are other search engines that handle pointers to similar content differently. Moreover, duplicates are useful to me as a human searcher and browser of SO. Jun 18, 2019 at 12:57
  • @TrevorReid Sure, there is Bing or DuckDuckGo. When they reach the 99% market share for searches that Google has, SO will worry about their algorthims, too.
    – TylerH
    Jun 18, 2019 at 16:56
  • 1
    @HansPassant SO is not exactly a lightweight on the Internet. Why haven't they reached out to Google to discuss the issue with them?
    – jpmc26
    Jun 19, 2019 at 21:33
  • @jpmc26 I don't think google can do anything to help here. Their only selling point is (ruthlessly) rating content for usefulness. If they would start boosting 10000th duplicate of NullPointerException questions "just because SO wants to keep it" I would be the first to try alternative search engine. I use search for my job and I need it to be useful. Not friendly. Not welcoming. It needs to help find solutions to my problems, and if it does that poorly I'll try another search engine, simple as that
    – gnat
    Jun 20, 2019 at 10:12
  • 1
    @gnat Including a link to another question does not imply the page is not useful, especially if your search query doesn't match the dupe target. Thus Google's approach is flawed. Discussing that reality with them seems prudent.
    – jpmc26
    Jun 20, 2019 at 14:35
  • @HansPassant Do you know of any docs/posts that can elaborate on that? I am curious to see how that works. Sep 26, 2019 at 2:35
  • 1
    It happened twice before, one, two. They got tweaked somehow, not the 3rd time. Sep 26, 2019 at 6:23

3 Answers 3

27

Some valid reasons:

  • Delete votes are sometimes used to save newbies from bandwagon down-voting. The OP got -8 votes, so they probably got the message that this wasn't a great question. No need to pile up the down votes further from there.

  • The question is so incredibly uninteresting, poorly-researched and common that some veteran users may get frustrated with the utter lack of quality. Delete votes can act as a form of therapy for these users, nuking crap from the site. We value veteran users far more than we value preserving crappy duplicates, so if they want to delete such posts, let them, if it means they will stay on SO despite the constant crap assault the site is facing.

  • To get rid of the incentive for answering crap questions like these and undo the score given to the "low hanging fruit hunters". In this case, one high-rep user got a lot of up-votes from answering a question that's been answered hundred times before. We would much rather see such trusted users wield their tag dupe hammer to close the post, instead of answering it.

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    "The question is so incredibly uninteresting, poorly-researched and common" The most important conclusion given those facts is that the duplicate is not useful and is not providing a helpful signpost, and as a result merits deletion, not that it makes people feel good to delete it.
    – Servy
    Jun 18, 2019 at 13:21
  • @Servy From a search engine point of view, it could still be a helpful signpost. For example, it could have a better title than the canonical duplicate.
    – Lundin
    Jun 18, 2019 at 14:07
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    For something that's really common, that's highly unlikely. Sure, some fraction of a percent of those questions will be useful signposts. The rest won't be. Also, if the canonical question has a bad title then edit the title.
    – Servy
    Jun 18, 2019 at 14:22
  • @Servy Yep, I agree completely. Though there is the special case where we have 2 decent canonical dupe candidates, but since such situations are rare, we can handle them on case by case basis (as was done for example here).
    – Lundin
    Jun 18, 2019 at 14:38
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    I detest the idea that users are using the delete option as a super-downvote or a form of therapy, but my prior experience with the stack makes me feel that's probably one very likely explanation.
    – Xirema
    Jun 18, 2019 at 14:43
  • 1
    @Xirema why do you think so? Wouldn't you do something if you get asked the same thing over and over and over and over again.
    – Braiam
    Jun 18, 2019 at 15:51
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    @Braiam I think that veteran users of this site have a responsibility—one they frequently shirk—to be patient with users. The site, this stack in particular, has had a problem with hostility for a long time, and a lot of those problems are directly caused by gatekeeping and elitism on the part of experienced users lashing out at newer users who don't know better. So it doesn't surprise me in the least that veteran users act this way, but I'm still disappointed by it.
    – Xirema
    Jun 18, 2019 at 16:02
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    @Xirema responsibilities, you got to be kidding. This is a place where volunteers share their knowledge for free, pushing some responsibilities on them would be unfair. If one wants people carrying responsibilities, they pay money for that
    – gnat
    Jun 19, 2019 at 7:26
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    Questions like the one referred to in your post would as well be closed for the OP lacking the bare minimum knowledge of the topic they ask about, regardless of if they were duplicates or not. So there are a lot of bitterness caused by unwanted policy changes of the site, making it a much worse place than it was before 2014.
    – Lundin
    Jun 19, 2019 at 7:52
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    I strongly doubt any more useful "signposts" can be provided for What is a NullPointerException, and how do I fix it? with its almost 9000 existing duplicates. Additional duplicates of that question are very likely to be useless garbage, fit only for deletion.
    – Raedwald
    Jun 19, 2019 at 12:01
  • 1
    @Lundin Gonna be honest, "calling us elitist and gatekeeping?! How could someone who's only been here 3 years possibly think such a thing??" is probably the most perfect expression of my problem with the attitude on this stack I've seen in a while, so kudos for that comment getting added to my scrapbook. ;)
    – Xirema
    Jun 19, 2019 at 14:39
  • As for point A), shouldn't that just teach us that there is no need to bandwagon even if the dupe is still there? I mean, can't we really be trusted to be nice if there is the possibility to be mean?. As for point B) then I think that the problem of the post would be that it was low quality, not that it was a dupe. What about dupes that are good quality? I mean - I did saw cases where the OLDER version of a question was closed as a dupe because the new one was better written. As for C)... I can kinda agree even if far better solutions have been proposed over the years on the main Meta site.
    – SPArcheon
    Jun 19, 2019 at 15:05
  • 1
    @SPArchaeologist Well, since this was posted, someone undeleted the post and down-voted it some more, the "meta-effect" piling up the down votes. After which 3 more users including me cast delete votes to have it deleted again, for point A, to save the poor OP. So... we probably can't be trusted to be nice, at all... particularly not the meta crowd.
    – Lundin
    Jun 19, 2019 at 15:11
  • @SPArchaeologist As for a new dupe to replace older dupes, you'd have to have high quality answers, which isn't possible once it is closed. As a question, the only thing wrong with it is the complete lack of research. Had it been the first question about this ever posted, it might have gotten canonical dupe status and up-votes. ->
    – Lundin
    Jun 19, 2019 at 15:19
  • Perfect example for C and C++. When the question is posted matters - this probably isn't the best i=i++ question ever posted, but it was probably one of the first. And therefore it has been polished by many guru users over the years. The OP just has to lean back and enjoy the rep. Which is perfectly fine I think, because this particular one has been used extensively as a great moderator tool.
    – Lundin
    Jun 19, 2019 at 15:19
41

It was not deleted automatically by the system, but rather by a coalition of trusted users, who have delete-vote privileges. 10k+ reputation users can see that by navigating through to the question. Others will have to trust me when I say that the following banner appears below the question:

deleted by πάντα ῥεῖ, NathanOliver, user4581301 1 hour ago

That answers the what and how.

Now for the why—the truth is, there isn't a hard and fast rule. Rather, there are guidelines. Such guidelines are provided in this FAQ on the global Meta:

Should duplicates be deleted?

In general, no: most duplicates stay around. Having multiple copies of the same question with different wording is useful as search fodder, because people looking for an answer may use different wording too.

Duplicates that are word-for-word copies or that are so poorly written that they are not useful may be deleted by users with sufficient privilege.

In other words, as you said, usually we keep duplicates around to serve as signposts to the canonical question. Presumably, the reason why someone asked a duplicate question is because they were unable to find the original question. The duplicate now helps others avoid the same fate.

However, duplicates that are not useful need not be kept around. We leave this assessment to the judgment of trusted users with delete privileges. It's not a perfect system, and sometimes it goes wrong.

But I don't think it did in this case. Looking at the list of users who voted to delete the question, not only are they experienced Stack Overflow users who know what type of content we expect here and have participated extensively in content curation, but even more importantly, they're all expert C++ contributors who I know are qualified to make a judgment regarding the quality and usefulness of that duplicate. If the delete-voters were Java and Python folks, I might have a bit less confidence in their ability to judge a C++ question. However, in this case, I think they're all qualified to judge whether or not that question is a useful signpost, or whether it is just testament that someone didn't bother to put in the effort to actually search before asking.

Granted, operators are mere punctuation, which makes them quite difficult to search for, so maybe the asker did try to search. I don't know. However, having more duplicates around won't solve that problem because you still won't be able to find them in your search results.

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    This doesn't really explain why these users made this decision. I nominally agree that the question was poorly researched, but given the grammar and the proper attempt to actually demonstrate their problem, the question was easily much higher quality than other questions that get left closed or untouched. I already knew that these users were responsible for the decision, and if I trusted their decision, I wouldn't have made this post in the first place.
    – Xirema
    Jun 18, 2019 at 1:07
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    I thought the "why" was pretty clear from my answer. The folks who voted to delete it obviously didn't think that it was a useful signpost. Is there any particular reason why you think the question is useful as a signpost? The fact that it uses correct grammar isn't particularly relevant in deciding whether or not to delete it, since that can be fixed with an edit. Yes, there are probably tons of other low-quality questions that should be deleted and haven't already. That isn't really a good argument for keeping this one. Jun 18, 2019 at 2:04
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    @Xirema there may also be a "fastest gun in the west" issue here: some people are trying to grab reputation instead of factoring as duplicate, so deleting may be a way to circumvent that.
    – Cœur
    Jun 18, 2019 at 2:06
  • 2
    @Cœur That seems a lot more relevant as to the 'why' in this situation. If the intent is to avoid users gaining rep off an obvious duplicate question, then it makes more sense why the question might have been deleted. Maybe that would be good to post as a proper answer.
    – Xirema
    Jun 18, 2019 at 5:06
  • Re "If the delete-voters were Java and Python folks...": perhaps somewhat O/T, but wouldn't it make sense to require the trusted users to have some expertise in the question being scrutinized? As an extreme example, is it really a good idea to allow trusted experts in (say) css, fortran and ssl to delete a raspberry-pi question when they have probably never asked or answered any raspberry-pi questions? Requiring a certain reputation level (TBD) of the trusted users with respect to the question being deleted doesn't seem unreasonable,
    – skomisa
    Jun 18, 2019 at 6:26
  • 4
    @skomisa I don't think this would really benefit SO. On one hand, I think "experts" in any SO tag are aware of the way SO works, and would not delete questions they are not familiar with. On the other hand, such SO users can help delete 100% crap questions.
    – Holt
    Jun 18, 2019 at 6:52
  • 1
    Just out of curiosity. What was the duplicate target and how many duplicates exist already? Is there an easy way to list all the questions marked as duplicates of something without going to SEDE? Jun 18, 2019 at 7:57
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    @Trilarion dup target was stackoverflow.com/questions/845912/…. And according to the Linked tab on the right column, this one has at most 3 non-deleted duplicates, probably less. Also note that this was for C++. The similar dup target for pure C would be stackoverflow.com/questions/4843304/….
    – Cœur
    Jun 18, 2019 at 9:25
  • @Cœur That's assuming there aren't any version of the same question not closed as a duplicate of that one question. (I don't know the topic well enough to know if there are, just saying that a firm upper bound of 3 is a bit fuzzier.)
    – Servy
    Jun 18, 2019 at 13:56
  • @Servy I was answering "the questions marked as duplicates of something" from previous comment. Anyway, by checking the three links, none of them was marked as an actual duplicate of the mentioned target. Let's also note that there exists a page to list all the linked questions, which makes it easier to see which linked questions are closed as a duplicate without going to SEDE: stackoverflow.com/questions/linked/845912
    – Cœur
    Jun 18, 2019 at 14:07
  • @Cœur no, mere closing is enough to stop the answers from being posted.
    – Will Ness
    Jun 20, 2019 at 7:24
5

My understanding of the model that Stack Exchange uses is that questions tagged as duplicates, for unregistered users, redirect to the question they were tagged as a duplicate of.

We like to call them signposts. You're right in that we like to keep around to help other users find an answer. But there's a limit to that. At some point you can have too many signs, at which point they just become noise. More importantly, this was an error that was hammered to try and prevent answers. We prefer typos not get answers because it rarely helps other users.

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