-12

I'm a bit annoyed by this. Someone has decided to start a vote-to-close as duplicate on a canonical Q&A that I created:

What does "possible lossy conversion" mean and how do I fix it?

Not only that, but they appear to have chosen a rather "mediocre" question as the dup target ... as indicated by the respective votes.

As someone with a gold badge for Java questions, I could reopen the question if it closes. But I can't do that until it closes. I could also dup-close it myself and then immediately reopen it, but that is liable to create a storm, and accusations of "abuse".

What should I do?

Is this something that moderators would intervene in?

9
  • 10
    Why should a "canonical Q&A" have some magic protection against closure? It is possible to discuss if the chosen target is worth it or not, but getting annoyed because it got a close vote? Come on.
    – Tom
    Jun 12, 2019 at 11:54
  • 14
    my Q&A is defaced by... it is a comment.
    – Suraj Rao
    Jun 12, 2019 at 11:56
  • What would you for example do in this case: stackoverflow.com/questions/32568261/…? This was an intended canonical question which duplicates an already existing canonical question.
    – Tom
    Jun 12, 2019 at 11:57
  • "Why should a "canonical Q&A" have some magic protection against closure?" - Did I say that in my meta Question?
    – Stephen C
    Jun 12, 2019 at 11:58
  • 6
    Yes you did. You first said you're annoyed because someone dared to cast a close-vote and then you criticized the quality of the chosen dupe-target.
    – Tom
    Jun 12, 2019 at 12:01
  • 4
    have you considered dupe-closing in the opposite direction? this would make it impossible to close the other way 'round
    – gnat
    Jun 12, 2019 at 13:33
  • 1
    Wouldn't that be abusing the dup-hammer? Actually, nobody has actually answered that aspect of my question. Would it be acceptable to just dup-hammer the attempted dup-close?
    – Stephen C
    Jun 12, 2019 at 14:05
  • "just dup-hammer" wouldn't be OK, that's for sure. However, with a canonical Q&A there is naturally a fat chance that when someone attempts to dupe it to narrower question, the closure in the opposite direction is indeed better. As a gold badge holder in relevant tag you appear to be in the best position to decide whether it is so in this specific case or not
    – gnat
    Jun 12, 2019 at 14:54
  • 1
    given this pair of questions dupe close of narrower one would probably be okay if canonical would be expanded to explicitly cover case when implicit conversion happens when passing arguments and pointing to alternative solutions, one of changing the type of method arguments (when coder can control that) and another of casting
    – gnat
    Jun 12, 2019 at 15:10

3 Answers 3

8

It was a valid duplicate suggestion.

However, the question that you created as a canonical is a better question with a better answer, and it is long-standing convention that the best question be kept as the “main” question. Duplicate closure need not take the age of the question into account.

Therefore, I have closed the suggested question as a duplicate of your canonical.

This action was suggested in the comments, and you replied that you were reluctant to use your gold badge to do so, as it might be a conflict of interest. That is a valid concern; you taking this action may certainly have been perceived this way. In this particular case, I would have supported and defended the decision, but in the general case, it is probably best to leave the decision to a third party.

I have also removed the meta-commentary that you edited into the question. That does not belong. If the question can’t stand on its own merits, then it is not a valid question for this site. Your intention in creating it (e.g., to serve as a canonical) is not relevant.

1
  • "it is long-standing convention that the best question be kept as the “main” question" This may be true among moderators, but those of us lowlings, voting in the close queues, have no "real" say in the matter, if it smells like a duck... (groupthink at its best.) My vote to keep it open is wrong according to the system; Since I chose the best question to remain open. This is an almost completely hypothetical scenario, since I tend to skip duplicate closures, unless I know enough about both questions and their answers to make an informed judgement, but way too many reviewers follow the flow.
    – user10316640
    Jul 4, 2019 at 7:37
0

Just wait for the close vote to expire. It's a single user and a single vote.

If the question actually got closed, then we'd have to discuss if that's appropriate and if you should reopen yourself. But since it's only one vote, we can ignore it, and hope the vote expires, which probably will happen (most votes on old questions expire since the queue is not really functional, unless backed by a chat room or meta).

After the vote expired, you can decide to flag the comment as no longer needed if you feel the need to.

2
  • 4
    To play devil's advocate... "hope the vote expires". Why would you hope that? Why shouldn't we close duplicates?
    – jww
    Jun 12, 2019 at 13:13
  • 1
    I assume the OP here is knowledgeable and the vote is truly inappropriate (since he has a gold badge on the subject, and can unilaterally make decisions on duplicate votes). If that assumption is wrong, then we should of course hope it gets closed, though as said, the odds are slim since it's an old question. The fact that it got raised on meta might shift the odds a bit in favor of closing, though. But I don't have a strong opinion either way myself.
    – Erik A
    Jun 12, 2019 at 13:18
-2

Since the question you asked is in fact a duplicate of the question it is proposed as a duplicate as, you should confirm the closure of the question, and not vote to reopen a question that is in fact a duplicate.

That you "wanted to create a canonical" doesn't make your question not a duplicate. That your question was duplicating an already answered question when you posted it means it wasn't the canonical version of that question when you posted it, regardless of your meta commentary in the question attempting to state otherwise.

If you feel that your answer is better than the answer on the original, feel free to post your answer on the original question instead of the duplicate.

26
  • 7
    This answer is basically saying that creating deliberate canonical questions isn't possible, that all canonical questions are (or should be) promoted rather than created. To me, the point of a canonical question is that it canonizes the duplicates. That various duplicates may have lots of extraneous filler information, but the canonical one cuts all that out and gets right to the heart of the matter. That's why using it as the dupe target, even for older questions, is better: it makes the point absolutely clear with no extraneous stuff. Which is what this canonical does. Jun 12, 2019 at 13:49
  • 5
    @NicolBolas Of course you can create deliberate canonical questions. It just needs to be of a question that hasn't already been asked and answered. If there is an existing question for which you feel there is lots of extraneous filler information then edit that information out. That's why we let people edit posts. removing extraneous information is one of the primary purposes of it, rather than forcing people to re-ask a question just to have an altered version of the same fundamental question.
    – Servy
    Jun 12, 2019 at 13:51
  • 7
    "It just needs to be of a question that hasn't already been asked and answered." But nobody creates canonicals for things nobody has asked about. You create canonicals to close other things as dupe-targets. The existence of those "other things" is what makes you need a canonical Q&A. Jun 12, 2019 at 13:52
  • 1
    "If there is an existing question for which you feel there is lots of extraneous filler information then edit that information out." You can't do that, because that would be changing the intent of the question, which we are explicitly not allowed to do. If someone asks about cube rendering, that's what they're asking about: rendering a cube. It doesn't matter that the problem with cube rendering is multi-index rendering; the goal of that question was rendering a cube. Jun 12, 2019 at 13:54
  • 1
    @NicolBolas If editing the information out would be changing what the question is asking then that information wasn't extraneous. Extraneous information is, by definition, information which does not change what the question is asking, and can be removed without changing what is being asked.
    – Servy
    Jun 12, 2019 at 13:56
  • 1
    @NicolBolas This isn't a case where the duplicate target asks about an entirely different issue whose root cause happened to be the same as what this user was asking about. They really are asking exactly the same question. Both questions are just a copy paste of an error message and a "what does this even mean?" question and some code that reproduces it that doesn't actually matter. Except that one has some irrelevant meta commentary about the fact that it's trying to be a canonical.
    – Servy
    Jun 12, 2019 at 13:58
  • 4
    OK, let's follow that line of reasoning. By that definition, the older question has a lot of extraneous information; namely, the huge code listing. So we should just delete that. But then, the question lacks an MCVE, and therefore should be closed. Whereas the newer question makes it clear that it doesn't need an MCVE because it's asking about the subject in a general way that isn't about any one specific example. Jun 12, 2019 at 14:01
  • 3
    @NicolBolas Yes, if you deleted the entire code snippet it would lack an MCVE, however if you removed the parts of the code snippet that are irrelevant (which is most of it), you'd turn it into an MCVE. Both questions are asking the same thing. Both benefit from having an MCVE (which neither technically has, one's not complete, one's not minimal). It makes no sense to say one needs it and one doesn't when they're asking the same thing.
    – Servy
    Jun 12, 2019 at 14:05
  • 2
    But that's my point: they're not asking the same thing. The older one is asking "why doesn't this code compile, seemingly due to this line?" The newer one is asking "what does this error message, produced by code of this form, mean, and what do I do about it?" One is asking about a specific case; the other is explicitly very general. The latter doesn't need an MCVE because it's not asking about debugging; it's asking about the meaning of an error. Jun 12, 2019 at 14:07
  • 1
    @NicolBolas But it's not asking that. Both questions ask why the code produces the error, and both ask how to fix it. Both questions provide a specific case they're asking about, and both questions ask for a solution that applies to the general case. The only difference between them is that one was asked because they actually faced the problem, and one know the question was a duplicate when they posted it.
    – Servy
    Jun 12, 2019 at 14:14
  • 2
    I guess the problem I have with your definition is that it doesn't fit our established standards for how canonical Q&As work. By your reasoning, the NullReference Exception question shouldn't have been asked and should have been closed as a duplicate of one of the older questions (it was created in response to the multitude of such questions, after all). You may argue that this specific case is not really a canonical question, but your larger point seems to argue against the practice of writing canonical Q&As entirely. Jun 12, 2019 at 15:06
  • 1
    "Why do so many people think a question needs to have been knowingly asked as a duplicate, and typically written poorly, in order for it to be the target of duplicate closures?" That's a "when did you stop beating your wife" kind of question. We do not agree that canonicals are "typically poorly written". As for the purpose of them, they make the actual problem clear. Like I mentioned, a good canonical is about problem Q, the core of the user's issue, not any hypothetical problems P that they think they're having. That's what makes them better dupe targets. Jun 12, 2019 at 15:17
  • 1
    @NicolBolas A canonical question is not, by definition, in response to questions that have been asked. A canonical question is the official or primary version of that question. Every question that is the first non-duplicate quality question of the problem it is asking about is (or should be) the canonical version of that question. You don't need to ask another duplicate because a type of question is being asked a lot. You just need to have a good general answer and actually vote to close questions. It's the good answer, that's important, not the asking another duplicate.
    – Servy
    Jun 12, 2019 at 15:27
  • 1
    This may be applicable to the situation in general: What are “Community Wiki” posts? But the caution is, the question was not turned over to the community, so a discussion of community wiki may not apply. (I can't really tell the difference is in application between a community wiki and a canonical answer. Does anyone know when to prefer one to the other?)
    – jww
    Jun 12, 2019 at 16:21
  • 1
    @jww CW would be applicable when the answer is a collaborative work of multiple people (often, but not necessarily, coordinated outside of that post, i.e. in chat, a meta discussion on the topic, or outside the site entirely). Coordination of many people to write an answer is often overkill on an answer that's not a canonical answer (so people don't do it as often on posts with a really narrow scope), but not all canonical answers are in fact collaborative works of multiple people, so there's a correlation there.
    – Servy
    Jun 12, 2019 at 17:06

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .