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The question How to initialize a std::array with a size derived from an input argument to a function? was deleted (but 10k users can see it) 3 hours ago by an employee with a comment:

Post removed due to a DMCA notice from PayPal, Inc

The question was not bad, had multiple upvoted answer (disclaimer: one from mine) and I can't find anything in it that may violate copyright.

I'm just curious to know:

  1. How this apparently simple post is violating PayPal's copyright?
  2. What is our policy regarding copyright violation?
  3. Can't we simply remove the copyrighted portion instead of deleting everything?
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  • 6
    That looks like bullshit, so I hope the OP has been notified and feels willing and brave enough to file a counter-notice. Commented Apr 11, 2019 at 19:50
  • 6
    Noticed this one as well. The OP is an engineer at Venmo, so it's likely their own takedown. Commented Apr 11, 2019 at 21:31
  • 4
    Re-opening because this question is about a specific question, and the discussion is partly about how this specific question violated copyright.
    – Erik A
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 7:30
  • @ErikA The dupe was also about a specific question, but I believe the answer is the same in any case. In the end this is between the party serving the DMCA notice, SE, and the question owner. The work-around for answer owners were also listed in the dupe.
    – yivi
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 7:33
  • 3
    @yivi The key part that isn't answered there is does this specific question violate copyright, and if so, how. We can guess the answer is the same, but that's just a guess, there might be substance to this notice. It has value keep it open to see if SE can officially respond with details about this specific notice imo.
    – Erik A
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 7:39
  • 7
    @ErikA The key part is that the answer for that question is "it's not relevant, and neither meta nor moderators have any agency on reverting this action no matter our opinion about if this is really infringing or not; the only way to restore the content is to file a counter-notice, and only the post author can do that. The course of action for DMCA notices is clear and documented".
    – yivi
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 7:42
  • 6
    @yivi It may not be relevant for restoration of the answer, but it's a relevant discussion nonetheless, especially considering the point discussing current policy. Since, like Sotirios said, it's likely OP himself/his employer, we could consider this cheating the system allowing OP to delete posts he normally can't without the possibility of undeleting. The situation is different enough to warrant a separate discussion imo.
    – Erik A
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 7:48
  • Also, your point considering counterclaims might be wrong. Since the content was distributed under an open license, we could all be considered owners of the content under that license, and file a counterclaim afaik (but of course IANAL). Not only the author, but any owner of the content should be able to file a counterclaim, including SE themselves.
    – Erik A
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 7:51
  • 3
    All that has been covered in the linked posts in the answer in the dupe. No, only the post author can file a counter-claim. An "open license" doesn't mean "we all own the content", it only means we can use that content under that license (as long as the license is valid to begin with). Not that I like the DMCA or these deletions, but all this has already been covered. If the question were about "taking additional steps to increase transparency regarding DMA notices", I think it would be great. But it's not about that.
    – yivi
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 7:55
  • @yivi I don't believe you're right. Under the license we all hold on that content (if it's valid), we're allowed to distribute it. The main question is the one about liability, if I were to file a counterclaim I would be liable for the damages if the original claim was valid and I wouldn't hold a valid license allowing me to distribute the content. I can understand SE not wanting that liability.
    – Erik A
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 8:11
  • 6
    Just wondering, how is marking a question as 'deleted' while not actually deleting it (and keeping it visible for 10k+ users) a sufficient response to a DMCA takedown request? E.g. there is no way that I can still watch a DMCA-removed YouTube video - those really are gone, or at least not availabe to the public in any way. This is not that.
    – Peter B
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 9:32
  • 7
    @ErikA That's completely wrong. License holders cannot file a counter claim. Part of filing a counter claim is asserting "I actually do own this content and the other party does not, therefore their claim is invalid." You don't ever own the content as part of a license. We've continually emphasized that for many years.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 14:20
  • @PeterB It is practically invisible also for the 10k+ users, as they have no way to find its link.
    – peterh
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 16:16

1 Answer 1

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First and foremost, to dispel rumors from the comments: the owner of this content did not send the DMCA notice. It actually was sent by an attorney from PayPal. The author had tried to vandalize several posts after he was told by PayPal he had shared proprietary code, but ultimately their legal team was still responsible for going over him and sending a notice that involved 32 questions.

Simply put, we do not process DMCA notices that come from the the person who posted the content. That wouldn't even make sense. If you are claiming ownership of the content in the DMCA, then you as the owner already had authorization to post the content and license the content to us and there are no problems. We do not accept DMCA notices as a bypass for deletion restrictions in our systems. They are not a way to change your mind.

How this apparently simple post is violating PayPal's copyright?

I couldn't tell you. That particular question seems to have nothing to do with PayPal. It's explicitly asking about a LeetCode problem. To be honest, I didn't check every single question of the 32 that got deleted for viability - that's far too time consuming. I just spot check a few examples with huge cases like this.

What is our policy regarding copyright violation?

That's a fairly broad question, and I'm assuming you're just asking about the DMCA process. Our policy is pretty much entirely covered here: What is the policy for DMCA takedowns, and what can we expect in terms of transparency regarding the removed content?

Can't we simply remove the copyrighted portion instead of deleting everything?

Sometimes that is possible, and sometimes it's just not possible to reword a question without that content and there's nothing we can do. Even if it is possible, it's a ton of extra work because we can't only remove it from the question and call it good. We'd also have to redact it from the revision history so the copyrighted content can't be found by simply clicking into the post's history.

Frankly, if there were valid answers in there somewhere, it'd be far easier for another user to simply re-ask the question in a broader way that avoids using anything that might look copyrighted and just re-posting the answer there.

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  • 3
    "We'd also have to redact it from the revision history so the copyrighted content can't be found by simply clicking into the post's history." And also from any answers or comments. Answers and comments may also need to be edited or deleted to make sense with the edited question.
    – Servy
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 14:50
  • Did other deleted questions contain /Users/.../GoogleDrive/CodeRust in the question body? The only problem I can think of is that the OP was doing that LeetCode problem on a company pc.
    – user247702
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 15:04
  • 1
    @Stijn: To me that looks like a peculiar but otherwise non-proprietary file path. Don't think any of us would've known or cared otherwise had it not been for the DMCA notice (think Streisand effect).
    – Makoto
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 15:06
  • @Stijn Not really. Most of them follow an obvious path of copyright violation: large blocks of code and screenshots. That's why I didn't bother looking at every single one.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 15:08
  • There's this Java question which looks otherwise innocuous @animuson. Screenshots and large blocks of code, sure - those could get removed if there's anything proprietary in them; this particular question looks to me like collateral damage.
    – Makoto
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 15:09
  • 1
    @Makoto Even if it's a small piece of code, if he copied that out of some PayPal code, then they can still claim copyright and have us take it down.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 15:12
  • ...which is fair, but to the untrained eye, there's nothing in there which looks like it would belong to PayPal. But I suppose that's not a thing we can defend or assert here.
    – Makoto
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 15:13
  • @animuson thanks a lot for clarifying things. Honestly, I wasn't aware about the law before and I agree that it is too much for SO to get involved into such legal matter. I think we have better things to do. Anyway, for this particular case I think PayPal took action against one of it's developers. It is hard to speculate for us why they did so, there might be lots of matters unknown to us. So at the end, just moving on is the best strategy for us.
    – taskinoor
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 17:40
  • 1
    Doesn't a DMCA request have to identify what the offending content is? Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 22:47
  • @AlexanderO'Mara Generally, yes. But there's also nothing against a blanket identification of "proprietary information" contained in all the links identified. As in, it doesn't require extreme specificity such as copying and pasting the exact content that was infringed (almost none of the DMCA notices we receive do that).
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Apr 12, 2019 at 22:51

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