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The discussion over at Why do so many posts contain poor grammar or poorly worded titles? prompted me to take a look at the site tour page. Somewhat surprisingly, I noticed it does not make any mention of the language or grammar... at all.

While Stack Overflow tries its best to be inclusive and global, Stack Overflow is definitely an English language site; we close questions in other languages as "Unclear" and point users to more appropriate sites or ask them to edit their question into English.

We also edit questions with poor grammar and spelling to improve their quality, not to mention editing titles into something legible (after all, who wants to answer a question titled "my code's not working, getting an error"?)

Considering we are encouraged to point users to the Tour page, such an exclusion seems like a bit of a problem.

Can the Tour page be edited to at least include "English language" as a link (linking [in a new tab] to something like How do I deal with non-English content? or Do posts have to be in English on Stack Exchange? or https://stackoverflow.blog/2009/07/23/non-english-question-policy/), e.g.:

edited Tour blurb about SO being an English language programming Q&A site; specific change circled in red

(this is just an example; I acknowledge the exact phrasing I used above could be a bit confusing... someone might think SO is for asking questions about the English language)

Additionally, it would be great if the Tour also included a blurb (one of the <div class="about-*"> sections) that perhaps talks about proper grammar, spelling, and faux pas to avoid, such as:

  • Make sure you write in complete sentences. Use punctuation and line breaks to avoid fragments and run-on sentences. Avoid "chatspeak" or callouts like "help!" or "urgent"; stick to the things necessary to describe your question.

Maybe with some good or bad examples like the <div class="about-offtopic"> section:

Example of things not to write in questions

(Again, this is just an example; I'm sure there are better things to include and/or better ways to say them)

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    You don't think the entire tour being written in English is a strong enough hint?
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 22, 2019 at 16:10
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    @Shog9 It apparently isn't, but letting people know this site is for English is only one of three things this feature request hopes to accomplish. The other two are: pointing to the non-English SO sites (the link), and also providing general grammar/spelling/quality control guidance for new users who read the tour page. If we tell new users our expectations upfront, it's easier to defend those expectations after they've posted a question, especially if they have the Informed badge.
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 22, 2019 at 16:17
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    Not an offense but people are still going to ask non English questions on SO. That does not make any difference
    – Nisarg
    Commented Feb 22, 2019 at 16:24
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    I remember reading about an experiment done in regards to this... I don't recall seeing any results but it'd probably be more elegant to add a solution which detects the language a user is trying to use in a post and redirect them to the appropriate site just-in-time, rather than leave a note about how we only want English posts ironically written in English.
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 22, 2019 at 16:27
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    @Nisarg That a change does not perfectly accomplish the elimination of a problem is not a good reason not to make the change. If this helps even a little bit, it ought to be considered for implementation. And considering it's largely just a copy change... the bar for consideration ought to be fairly low.
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 22, 2019 at 16:27
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    @Makoto To your irony point, there are probably a lot of users that insist users must know some English. Such an elegant solution would also be a lot more work than what I'm proposing, though I would certainly vote for such a solution were someone to propose it. And if you consider the note ironic, surely you must also consider the fact the entire page is written in English ironic, too? I mean, if you don't read English, the page is pretty useless...
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 22, 2019 at 16:29
  • @TylerH: Yes, which I believe was Shog's point earlier. Conversely, we've run into the very real circumstance in which we have users who simply do not speak English post their question in their native language. The advice we give to not translate it - because there's no guarantee the OP would understand it - should apply to the guidance we provide here. There's no guarantee a non-native speaker would understand the Help Center as it's written, which makes it ironic in that we want to tell the non-native users where to find help in their native language in a language they don't know.
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 22, 2019 at 16:37
  • @TylerH: This also betrays the expectation that all languages are covered. For instance, there's been an outcry for a French Stack Overflow, but that doesn't exist. The same is true of a Chinese Stack Overflow (although I'm less certain about the outcry).
    – Makoto
    Commented Feb 22, 2019 at 17:04
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    This is already in the How to Ask page. If people aren't reading that, why do you think it'll help for it to be in the Tour?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 22, 2019 at 18:55
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    Another thing to remember is that what may be poor grammar in one part of the english speaking world may not be in another. Or more specifically when dealing with users who are taught english just for interaction with the outside business world and don't normally use it they may think they are using proper english.
    – Joe W
    Commented Feb 22, 2019 at 19:24
  • @CodyGray They are pointed to the Tour by a giant freaking banner when they join and we also have an easy [tour] comment link but AFAIK there isn't one for [how-to-ask], so it's a big convenience thing.
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 22, 2019 at 20:35
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    @Shog9 Not really, if people have automatic translators in their browser that translate everything to their native language.
    – user202729
    Commented Feb 23, 2019 at 11:23
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    FYI the magic comment for how-to-ask is simply [ask]: How to Ask =) Commented Feb 23, 2019 at 23:18
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    "after all, who wants to answer a question titled "my code's not working, getting an error"?" You'd be surprised...
    – cs95
    Commented Feb 24, 2019 at 3:46
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    @Shog9 I've been wondering why people ask non-English questions on a site which is obviously totally in English, and my conclusion thus far is that those people might be viewing the entirety of the web through an automated translate service, which renders anything to their native tongue. That way they wouldn't notice the tour page being in English either.
    – Adriaan
    Commented Feb 25, 2019 at 10:24

1 Answer 1

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I gotta note a couple of figures here...

Over the past 30 days, the Tour has been viewed 96,212 times, or an average of ~3200 views per day. About 56% of those viewers scrolled to the end - averaging just over 1700 complete views per day.

That's substantial! Certainly compares well to the 48,473 people who asked their first question in the same time period.

But... Only about 7% of the folks who viewed the Tour page went on to ask their first question. And only about 4% of the folks who viewed the whole Tour page went on to ask their first question.

Most people asking their first question aren't reading the Tour first. And most people reading the Tour aren't asking their first question. But forget first questions; out of all the people who viewed the tour last month, only about 13% went on to ask a question at all - that's a bit under 13,000 questions for the month.

I'm not arguing that the Tour is worthless here - in fact, I think we should try to get more people to read it. But I would argue that it's not a great place to put information that needs to be seen before asking a question. A much more effective place would be /questions/ask itself, or /questions/ask/advice, or the Wizard, or even a pop-up triggered by weird grammar.

...In fact, some of that already exists:

warning for using "urgent" in a title

"help" is straight-up blocked in titles

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    I agree the Tour page is not necessarily the most effective place to put it to guarantee it's seen. So are you willing to follow up on meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/325865/… or meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/365580/…? A foreign language checker like in the first option, coupled with other detection features might go a long way...
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 22, 2019 at 20:53
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    Also, for what it's worth, the chance for ~6.7k questions a month (7% of 96,212) to be impacted by additional advice seems kind of huge to me, considering how few people spend time curating the site's questions.
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 22, 2019 at 20:56
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    I wonder how many of those 56% of viewers who scrolled to the end actually read any of it. I imagine the majority of those viewers scrolled straight to the end for the badge. Commented Feb 25, 2019 at 10:38
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    @JamesDonnelly Depends on how many of them are aware there is a badge. If they're new users, chances are high they are unaware (unless someone tells them).
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 25, 2019 at 14:49
  • Question - is there anything guiding new users to "take the tour" when they create a new account? Is there any badge awarded to those who go to and scroll through the whole page? Perhaps some incentives are needed :)
    – dwirony
    Commented Feb 25, 2019 at 16:25
  • @dwirony There's a huge blue banner (called a "hero") that tells them to take the tour IIRC. Maybe that just tells them to sign up... EDIT - just checked, that just tells them to sign up it seems
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 25, 2019 at 16:40
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    There's an inbox message, @dwirony: i.sstatic.net/Xo2e6.png
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 27, 2019 at 2:02

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