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We (Network Engineering) were wondering if there was a way to get the Stack Overflow pages changed to recommend Professional Networking questions be asked on Network Engineering rather than on Server Fault. Network Engineering has been around for five years now, and it was split off from Server Fault and Super User because the Professional Networking questions got lost in all the noise of other types of questions on those sites. We think that the users would be better served (answered faster with better answers) to ask those types of question on Network Engineering.

There is a related question here.

There are a lot of questions asked using the , among others, that should really be directed to Network Engineering rather than Server Fault. Network Engineering would be the place to ask questions about things like protocol theory or configuring Enterprise/Business-grade network devices, among other topics asked, but do not belong, on Stack Overflow.

Currently, the Closing > Off-Topic page recommends Server Fault for Professional Networking:

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The Help Center > Asking page also recommends Server Fault:

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The Network Engineering What topics can I ask about here? page explains the proper questions for Network Engineering:

enter image description here

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    Are you sure you want a bunch of ... stuff ... to come from Stack Overflow? Code Review tried that and decided to shut off the firehose after a while. See this answer for more detail. Nov 20, 2018 at 19:54
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    I'm not sure that is really what happens with Server Fault today. All we are saying is that s lot of what is recommended to go to Server Fault should really be recommended to go to Network Engineering. It could actually have a good effect on both sites, and I think the users could be better served. I think the Code Review thing is different because it was a new recommendation, where what we are asking is that a current recommendation (to Server Fault) be split.
    – Ron Maupin
    Nov 20, 2018 at 20:06
  • @HereticMonkey this question is an example of a question that should have been recommended to [network engineering.se], but the recommendations on the close reasons are to Server Fault and Super User.
    – Ron Maupin
    Nov 20, 2018 at 20:20
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    I'm just saying that turning that firehose on makes for a lot of water, some of which you might not want. SO gets a ton of frankly crap questions, including some about networking. Just want you and any moderators on Network Engineering to be prepared :). Nov 20, 2018 at 20:22
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    I actually monitor and answer Stack Overflow questions tagged with networking, so I do see many of those questions. I am a moderator on Network Engineering and I discussed this with the other moderators, and this is what I got, "I think that's a good idea." Most of the questions we get today are off-topic (home networking, etc.), so we have gotten pretty good about directing to better sites. There is currently a survey in place to see about relaxing the off-topic reasons on NE.
    – Ron Maupin
    Nov 20, 2018 at 20:30
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    @HereticMonkey Code Review never had a migration path from SO, nor was there ever a custom close reason that referenced it. No one ever needed to do either of those things to know it was a bad idea. There are too many people improperly flagging for migration or telling people in comments to post on CR for SE (or SO or CR regulars) to think that it would be a good idea.
    – Servy
    Nov 20, 2018 at 22:26
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    @RonMaupin I have to question your premise that professional networking questions are off topic on SF. Their tour makes it rather explicitly clear that such questions are on topic. I'm not active their, but if their tour is really that far off from reality, having the moderators there change it to reflect reality is probably a much more important step than changing migration paths on SO. Do you have a reference from SF in which they indicate that networking questions are off topic?
    – Servy
    Nov 20, 2018 at 22:29
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    I'll also note that not only does SF have 20x the questions of Network Engineering, but the "networking" tag at SF has more questions than NE has in its whole site (and you know not all networking related questions are going to have that tag).
    – Servy
    Nov 20, 2018 at 22:32
  • I think it is mistake, but it doesn't matter. You only have to convince the company to edit these pages, not us. Change the [discussion] tag to [feature-request]. And it is certainly best to contact Shog9 directly. Nov 20, 2018 at 23:16
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    @Servy, if you go down the "networking" tag rabbit hole on SF, you will find that a high percentage of them are host network configuration questions, HTTP server questions and the like. Many of their questions tagged "networking" don't have anything more to do with networking than that the subject in question uses a network to communicate. SF existed long before NE, and SE staff indicated that there was no problem with those questions being on topic on both sites (since they were previously at SF). So while they are on topic, the network professionals tend to spend more time at NE.
    – YLearn
    Nov 20, 2018 at 23:51
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    @Servy, "I have to question your premise that professional networking questions are off topic on SF." That has never been my premise, and you are putting words in my mouth that I never said. What I explained is the NE was set up as a separate site because the questions about Professional Networking got lost in the noise of other questions on SF and SU, and users can generally get faster and better answers for those question on NE. Those types of questions are often asked and answered on SU and SF, but NE is specific to that topic.
    – Ron Maupin
    Nov 21, 2018 at 0:08
  • There are quite some sites related to IT. So should we updates and maintain to put each possible cases that match each other site ? (SoftEng, CodeReview, DBA, Network, SU, Specific product site like Saleforces, ...). Do it in that windows, eventually some specifics warning on keyword and tags ?,... I think we may hit a limit on how the design and limit can handle it with current tools. It might just be better to inform an OP that the question is off topic there and it might be on-topic on the XXX community and he may want to ask here after reading the help center.
    – Walfrat
    Nov 21, 2018 at 14:49
  • Hey Ron! I think part of the confusion may be that you state the problem you see but you don't ever actually say what you'd propose as a solution... It seems clear from reading comments that you don't want a migration path - what do you want? The second close reason to be changed to point to NE instead of (or in addition to) SF? To have NE added to the Help Center page? I think if you add an explicit description of the changes you'd like to see, that will help make your request clearer.
    – Catija StaffMod
    Dec 16, 2018 at 5:59

1 Answer 1

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I don't trust us* enough to discern beyond a shadow of a doubt that a question should go on Network Engineering. I'd rather a question on topic for that site confidently be closed here than see it shakily migrated somewhere else.

We have a lot of issues with the whole muddle-huddle of "This should belong on X" when the person commentating is not an expert on that. I don't want to mislead anyone into thinking that they'll get an answer for what turns out to be just a bad question somewhere else on the network.

If those questions die here, then I'm happy; we've done our job in communicating the intent that their question wasn't on-topic here and we've begged the OP to do more in the way of figuring out where they can ask it. If they can't figure that out, then I'm not convinced you want those OPs anyway.

*: Myself included.

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    I'm not asking that people "to discern beyond a shadow of a doubt that a question should go on Network Engineering." My request is simply that Network engineering be added to the list of recommendations, not that the users here tell people where to ask something, other than pointing them to the list that includes Network Engineering. That list now directs all the Professional Networking questions to Server Fault, which is really incorrect. Adding the option for Professional Networking questions to go the Network Engineering will simply help guide users to the proper SE site.
    – Ron Maupin
    Nov 20, 2018 at 22:14
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    @RonMaupin: We've migrated something on the order 650 questions in the last 90 days. Of those 650, 2 successfully went to Server Fault. We get something on the order of 7K questions per day, meaning migrations account for 0.1% of question traffic across 90 days. From there, those 2 questions represent 0.3% of all migration traffic. Does it really make sense to add a migration path for a fraction of a fraction of users who might have asked a networking question as opposed to a generic server question? I'm unconvinced.
    – Makoto
    Nov 20, 2018 at 22:30
  • To add to Makoto's comment, there were no migrations to or from Network Engineering either.
    – Servy
    Nov 20, 2018 at 22:35
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    You seem to misunderstand what I am asking. I'm not asking for anyone to make a recommendation or migrate any questions. I'm simply asking for Network Engineering be added to the lists of sites for users to see when they see if this site is appropriate or they get questions put on hold. It would be a simple change, and I'm not ask anyone to do anything else.
    – Ron Maupin
    Nov 20, 2018 at 22:41
  • @Servy, as far as no migrations from NE, I, personally, have recommended programming questions on NE be asked on SO, and I know for a fact that many of those questions were then asked on SO. I did not migrate the questions. You can see in my question above that NE has SO in the list of other sites on which a question may be asked. I'm simply asking for the return favor.
    – Ron Maupin
    Nov 20, 2018 at 22:42
  • @RonMaupin: As I understand it, editing the list of migration targets is a non-trivial task, and would result in one of the sites being removed for it. Now I don't deny that the list could use some refreshing. I'm just not convinced it needs to be refreshed with this site.
    – Makoto
    Nov 20, 2018 at 22:42
  • @RonMaupin Just because lots of people ask questions that belong on SO to NE doesn't mean that lots of people ask questions that belong on NE to SO. There are lots of sites that have migration paths to SO. Almost none of them are migration paths from SO, and for good reason.
    – Servy
    Nov 20, 2018 at 22:44
  • @Makoto It's not so much that it's difficult to do, more so that it's difficult for a site to actually be in a position where it merits being added to the list. Yes, it has a max size of five, and even then, a site is expected to be a common migration target, and for migration targets to generally be successful, for it to be added to the list.
    – Servy
    Nov 20, 2018 at 22:45
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    What is non-trivial is editing the Closing > Off-Topic page because it is limited. The other list (Help Center > Asking page) is fairly easy to edit to add NE. The Closing > Off-Topic page could simply change the wording of the SF item so that Professional Networking is not directed there.
    – Ron Maupin
    Nov 20, 2018 at 22:47
  • @Makoto Just curious, where do you get the migration statistics from? Nov 21, 2018 at 15:04
  • @NathanOliver presumably stackoverflow.com/tools/posts/migrated/stats Nov 21, 2018 at 15:31
  • @NathanOliver: Yes, stackoverflow.com/tools/posts/migrated/stats.
    – Makoto
    Nov 21, 2018 at 15:31
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    Generally, these kind of migration issues could be prevented if the system just checked if the user casting the close vote is active on both sites. With a requirement that they must have rep on the migrated-to site, this would be a non-issue.
    – Lundin
    Nov 23, 2018 at 11:40
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    @Lundin, that is not a bad idea, but it isn't really part of my request. I'm simply requesting that some wording be changed on some Stack Overflow lists. The idea you have is something that could be raised with the SE folks.
    – Ron Maupin
    Nov 25, 2018 at 3:15

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