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Recently I tried to post a question and surprise! I had been banned from posting a new question without a warning!

Yes it is possible in some "border" cases that I will explain.

In the past, I have received a warning because I have a lot of questions without answer and without reputation.

A friend of mine have answered to some of my question and I have recovered the possibility to post some new questions.

Until Stack Overflow decide that my friend has voted too many of my posts and has removed all votes of my friend. Then the ban algorithm has run again after this modification and then I have lost the possibility of posting questions.

Stack Overflow is like a Monopoly game

I will compare Stack Overflow as a monopoly game. If you are the first to play, you have a lot of possibilities to buy a field. If you come after 10 other players, it is more difficult to buy a free field.

It is the same thing on Stack Overflow. If you are a new user, the simple questions have already been posted. Some times, you have the possibility to improve the question because the software used has been modified or because the question is hard and nobody before you has given the correct answer.

But in the time, it become harder to post simple questions that can gain some answers or some reputation point. More seriously, when it is impossible to answer to some question, nobody take time to post an answer to say that it is impossible.

I'm not the first to complaint about this situation but I find this situation unfair considering the hours I have already worked to try to answer to some new questions.

I know that a solution exists. I can create a new user and post new questions using it until I can post new question with my original user. Sorry but I don't like to do that but if I'm constrained, I will do that.

Personally, I would found more equitable that Stack Overflow change is ban politic in implementing following concepts:

  1. Stop to penalize users when they remove a question or an answer. Why ? Because managing question and answer is a good work.

  2. Allow the deletion of questions without answer

  3. Encourage users to vote up for hard question that have their place on Stack Overflow.

  4. Notify permanently the question's ban so that user always know his question ban status.

Where I work, I'm alone to be active on Stack Overflow in posting and answering to questions. All my other colleagues use every day Stack Overflow without participating, only for searching.

Ok, it is my choice, but please, stop putting sticks in the wheels to users (as me and a lot of others) that work with you every day to improve the quality of the site.

Stop to transform Stack Overflow in big monopoly.

And what about liberty of expression? Posting a question is a liberty and blocking new question is blocking user liberty. I think that a smart solution exists and perhaps it is time to post the following question

How to improve Stack Overflow question's quality without using Question's ban?

I'm not the first to complaint about question's ban and I'm not the last.

It's perhaps time for Stack Overflow to take in consideration that he has evolved and that the old first algorithm are not more relevant.

I have posted 18 questions. I have received 14 answers and only 1 vote UP and only 1 vote DOWN. I think that my questions are oft hard but enough documented.

I only hope that this question will push Stack Overflow responsible to think about this ban topic and, perhaps, to make things differently.

Response for all users that have already reacted.

I can read that some of you say that is not impossible to not have been warned !

At begin I have been warned. At this instant, each time I will post a new question, I 'm warned.

Then Stack Overflow has stopped to warn me because somebody as voted for me. At this moment I don't receive any warning and I can post some questions.

Then Stack Overflow has removed some reputation's points because somebody has voted too much for me. The ban status has also been updated. So when I come back to post a new question I don't see any warning.

I'm simply banned without having been warned.

This is a side effect of Stack Overflow correction.

Point of weakness

This is a good technic to ban some users that are at ban limit.

You vote up for him on more than 20 questions. I hope he is happy because he gains some reputation.

Some time later, Stack Overflow detects than somebody have voted too much for this user and remove reputation's points and correct question ban status.

User is locked for new question.

It is diabolic ;-)

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    I have been banned to post a new question without warning ! The system gives plenty of warnings, often in the form of "You're in danger of being blocked" or somesuch.
    – Magisch
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 9:32
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    ^^ That said, I am a little surprised that your account does not show a lot of bad questions (and a satisfying amount of answers - too bad lots of them are at 0 votes). Did you delete your worst questions? Because those still count.
    – Jongware
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 9:34
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    @Magisch I think that the OP point is that a vote invalidation because of voting fraud may make the ban happen unexpectedly. I do not agree with their thesis, but from their point of view I guess that they didn't have time to react to the vote invalidation.
    – yivi
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 9:36
  • "I'm not the first to complaint about question's ban and I'm not the last." Do note that most of those bans are for perfectly valid reasons. The system is designed to first warn, then throttle, then weed out, people who willingly abuse the system. Your profile doesn't look anything like those bad eggs.
    – Jongware
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 9:38
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    @usr2564301 "I am a little surprised that your account does not show a lot of bad questions" - This is normal for users complaining about question bans on Meta - and yeah, we can infer that schlebe's got a bunch of negatively-scored deleted questions. Some such users (unlike schlebe, who seems honest) choose to lie about it and deny having any deleted questions, at which point a mod typically appears and says "Here are links to your 5 negatively-scored deleted posts that you lied about". Never be surprised by a user with a post ban lacking negatively-scored posts in their public profile.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 9:40
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    I know that a solution exists. I can create a new user and post new questions using it until I can post new question with my original user. Sorry but I don't like to do that but if I'm constrained, I will do that. That can get your entire office IP blocked iirc, so probably don't do that.
    – Magisch
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 9:46
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    @yivi I mean, OP openly admits that they were banned in normal due course before and then in an effort to undo the ban had a friend serial upvote them out of it. It doesn't seem that surprising that the ban would be reinstated after the serial upvoting was corrected.
    – Magisch
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 9:51
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    This might be a misunderstanding of Stack Overflow's purpose: "If you are a new user, the simple questions have already been posted." SO aims to be a repository of knowledge. That indeed might mean that all "simple questions" have already been asked … so you can find them, and do not need to ask again. It is not intended to make earning reputation more difficult; the whole system of "reputation" is a side effect and not the main objective of the site.
    – Jongware
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 10:23
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    I'm surprise that nobody speak about MONOPOLY similitude !
    – schlebe
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 11:08
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    @schlebe Dukeling's answer addresses that, even if it's not using the word Monopoly. The problem is that you are focusing in the wrong feature-set of SO. The objective is not that users get rep, but to build a q&a repository.
    – yivi
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 11:12
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    Is the purpose of Monopoly to win by earning a lot of money and drive all of your fellow players into bankruptcy? Or is its purpose to have a bit of fun and a nice evening with your mates/matettes? How do your friends react when you are caught cheating in the game?
    – Jongware
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 11:28
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    @usr2564301 Monopoly sucks. I thought that was the point the OP was trying to make. :P
    – yivi
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 11:28
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    Then StackOverflow has stopped to warn me because somebody as voted for me. At this moment I don't receive any warning and I can post some questions...I'm simply banned without having been warned. Come on, you're an adult, take responsibility for your own actions. Don't hide behind "you didn't tell me exactly what to do so it's your fault I did it wrong", that's lazy. It's perfectly reasonable to expect that having been warned about low quality contributions once, you would understand that you shouldn't ever be posting low quality content. The system did its job, you just ignored it
    – Clive
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 11:58
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    The machine is only enforcing the block - you seem to have forgotten that it was real people that voted on your previous contributions, to activate the block in the first place. You've already been crowd-reviewed, it would be a strange, almost unbelievable, coincidence if everyone in those crowds just happened to have voted incorrectly every single time. Or that your questions are too hard for them, which doesn't seem a likely reason for downvotes even if it was true.
    – Clive
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 14:05
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    While there can be some mentoring for problematic questions, it's not something anyone can reliably count on; there's a large list of resources for users to read to get tips and guidance on how to do better. Personalized help is much less useful to anyone else, hence why there's lots of general help. If you absolutely need that, pick one of your zero or negatively voted questions, and ask about that. Explain what you're after, and keep an open mind.
    – fbueckert
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 14:29

2 Answers 2

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The other answer addresses the other points well enough, so I'll focus on this:

If you are a new user, the simple questions have already been posted.

it becomes harder to post simple questions that can gain some answers or some reputation

All my other colleagues use every day Stack Overflow without participating, only for searching.

Asking good questions is hard, and that's the way it's supposed to be.

Stack Overflow is intended to be a repository of questions and answers, a place where you can find answers without having to ask the question yourself.

If you can find the answers to all of your questions on Stack Overflow without having to post anything yourself (as your coworkers seem to be doing), mission accomplished.

Being more accepting of unwanted content would be detrimental to this goal.

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  • it is perhaps detrimental (I accept and I think as you) but why it is not allowed to remove the question without being blocked or punished. Since begin, I repeat that it is unfair. I say nothing else.
    – schlebe
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 13:38
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    @schlebe it's not unfair. The help center and question editor both tell you to make sure the question hasn't already been asked. The editor even suggests posts that might already have your answer. Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 14:42
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    @schlebe Asking bad questions that end up getting deleted (by the author or anyone else) is still not good. A bad question still wastes the time of those who read it, and affect whether or not experts want to stay here, even if it ends up deleted soon enough. Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 14:52
  • @Dukelink: the problem is the definition of BAD question. What is a bad question ? A question that don't have any answer ? Sorry but I don't agree with your point of view. Basing good/bad question on answer's counter is not a correct indicator. It is perhaps a good indicator for a large majority of cases but it is not a good indicator for complex, deep, difficult questions. I'm not the first to say that and I'm not certainly the last.
    – schlebe
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 15:12
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    @schlebe Questions are not judged as bad/good based on the number of answers, but rather on the number of up/downvotes on the question itself. That's certainly not perfect either, but I doubt we have anything better. Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 15:26
  • @Dukelink: what you say is false. I'm banned with only 2 downvoted questions (with only -1) ! You say that I'm banned because I have bad questions and you say that bad questions are questions with low score. I have only 2 questions with low-score and I'm banned ! Can you find the error ? One the the 2 questions with -1 has been deleted recently to make some cleaning and find again the possibility to post new question.
    – schlebe
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 15:45
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    @schlebe you are not taking into account your deleted questions. are you sure you do not have any older, deleted, badly received questions?
    – yivi
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 15:55
  • I don't know. I have deleted other questions in the past but not a lot (2 or 3) because the topic is for SuperUser or Database SO sites. But I don't have the possibility to find them again. I have tried but I can only see recently questions.
    – schlebe
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 16:13
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    @schlebe use a custom flag on any of your posts and ask for a list of these negative and deleted questions. A moderation should help out
    – Patrice
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 16:47
  • I don't understand why deleted questions are still counted against you. You ask something that is below community standards. It gets pointed out. You learn, and delete ... and remain penalised? Draconian. Commented Sep 29, 2020 at 2:41
  • @youcantryreachingme We don't want people to just keep posting unwanted content endlessly. Even if it ends up getting deleted, it still takes time from others to read and deal with it and it distracts from other content. Posts will often get answered (even if just in the comments) before getting deleted, so this can encourage users to keep posting such content. Not to mention trolls or others who post malicious content that's not quite on the level deserving of a ban all by itself. Commented Sep 29, 2020 at 7:05
  • @youcantryreachingme There's generally no reputation penalty if your content is deleted (within a few weeks, I believe). The only penalty is getting one step closer to a ban. But the criteria to get banned should be lenient enough to make this irrelevant (and invisible) to anyone (or at least the vast majority) making a sincere effort to follow the rules. Although the site might not quite make clear how strict the rules are. Commented Sep 29, 2020 at 7:05
  • @BernhardBarker Thanks for the extra details. My thoughts: if it takes other people time to deal with content that gets deleted, to me, that's the cost of doing business. By all means, ban trolls, but genuine attempts at participating in the community should not be penalised. My experience is that I've answered quite a number of questions, I write well, I have people comment that my contributions are super useful. From time to time I've asked questions that others have told me are not suitable, so I've deleted them. Then, without warning, I'm banned from asking questions. That sucks. Commented Sep 29, 2020 at 22:46
  • @youcantryreachingme At some point the cost of dealing with that unwanted content becomes too high for the volunteers who spend their free time posting and moderating. I think the systemic problem here is that the stated goal of the site is to be a repository of high-quality questions and answers, but most askers just want an answer to their question without caring much about that (which is how I also started on the site) and many answerers just want to help individuals and get those precious imaginary internet points. Commented Sep 30, 2020 at 19:50
  • @youcantryreachingme You should see a warning if you're approaching a question ban. But I wouldn't be able to tell you whether or when you saw that, or whether the message is easy enough to see. I don't know the criteria used, but I believe the system cares about recent posts quite a lot. If your recent posts weren't received well, that would probably be why the system banned you. But I do sympathise. Asking "good" questions (as judged by the community) can be really hard and take a lot of work. And it's even harder to get out of a ban. Commented Sep 30, 2020 at 19:51
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Your question is a bit all over the place, but I'm going to try to focus exclusively on your "proposed changes" for the post ban mechanisms:

Stop to penalize users when they remove a question or an answer. Why? Because managing question and answer is a good work.

Allow the deletion of questions without answer

These two points have mostly the same problems.

If a user can delete their badly received posts without penalty, it's very easy to continue posting bad content without ever being banned. Users could even re-publish badly received content after first deleting it (this already happens, but at least this users are digging themselves down into a ban if they are not caught before).

And even if a question doesn't have an answer yet, it doesn't mean it didn't take resources from the network. Users had to read the question and evaluate it. They may have spent time looking for duplicates, or preparing an answer, or simply deciding how to vote on it.

If you do it ocassionally and your account is on good standing, it is not going to be a problem. This only becomes problematic for accounts close to being banned.

Encourage users to vote up for hard question that have their place on Stack Overflow.

This already happens. Users are encouraged to vote up content, and do so much more frequently than they do down vote.

Notify permanently the question's ban so that user always know his question ban status.

I do not understand what do you mean by "permanently". You are warned about being in danger to being banned when it is relevant.

In your case, you were warned, you were consequently banned, and you then got your ban removed because of some questionable votes.

Since you had been banned and warned previously, you should have been aware than the previous warning / danger situation still applied.

You didn't need a second warning. The first warning still applied. You had just recovered from a q-ban. You were supposed to tread carefully from that point forward.

Now you know than having a friend or colleague going through your account upvoting your posts is not a great idea.

But even if we came to agree that a second warning was needed (I do not agree with that), when was that supposed warning were to be given? Vote reversal is naturally instantaneous. And q-banning as well, or as close to be the same.

Exactly at what point could this warning appear? It is simply not possible unless you have some other proposal like not banning users as a result of a vote reversal, or banning them deferredly... neither of which would be a good idea either.

Check Dukeling's answer for other very important points.

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    I always assumed that SEDE query would be handy ...
    – rene
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 10:25
  • It is, @rene. Very much so. It should be permanently featured in meta.
    – yivi
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 10:30
  • @yivi. I have been warned the first time. But the message has disappeared. I never received a second message as before because StackOverflow has corrected some data as explained in my post. I have added some lines to explain more in detail my situation.
    – schlebe
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 11:06
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    @schlebe A second warning was not necessary. You had been warned and had just recovered from a q-ban. You were supposed to be aware of your situation. Even more so since it was a friend's votes that got you out of the q-ban.
    – yivi
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 11:11
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    @yivi: I don't have your opinion. I think that we are in 21 century and if system can do something it is always a good thing that system make the maximum for user.
    – schlebe
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 12:15
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    @schlebe I have to agree with you in one point: we are in the 21st century.
    – yivi
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 12:16
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    @schlebe I've added another paragraph addressing the impossibility of giving warning in these circumstances as well, never mind that I do not think it is actually necessary.
    – yivi
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 13:29
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    Thanks, this is the best good answer I can read from now :-) That will not serve my case but that will serve others. Thanks for them ?
    – schlebe
    Commented Nov 19, 2018 at 13:41

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