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Background

I keep being impressed by the quality of Stack Overflow answers, as well as the website's self-moderation abilities.

However, I recently encountered an instance in which, in my opinion, the self-moderation process failed:

  • A question was suggested as duplicate while the question linked to it, even if superficially very similar, could not solve the OP's problem

  • The OP got a solution to their problem in a comment to their question, not thanks to the question linked as duplicate. But being new to the language in question and new to Stack Overflow, they still clicked on the button to accept the closing as duplicate

  • I was just about to submit an answer to explain the OP's problem when the question got closed and since it is not a duplicate, following an advice found here, I decided to have my first little dip at Meta (I did not know what I was getting into... :D)

Things proved pretty disastrous. What did surprise me greatly however is that, for the first time, an inaccuracy won. Hence a failure in the moderation model. The reason it surprised me so much is because, in the answering of questions, inaccuracies are always corrected incredibly efficiently, thanks to the impressive knowledge and level of the SO members. I was not sure whether the question would be re-opened or not because I was not sure how much interest my Meta posting would receive. But what I certainly did not anticipate was to get a whole sweep of downvotes from people not understanding why the question linked as duplicate would not help the OP solve their problem. My confidence came from an absolute trust in the moderation model to push correct statements/answers/etc. above inaccurate ones thanks to the incredible expertise of the community.

Reflection

I think that the reason Stack Overflow (and other Stack Exchange sites) is so successful in its moderation is thanks to the reputation system which does a great job at ensuring that people who do not know enough cannot take decisions which would be detrimental to the moderation. The reputation system ensures that "power" is in the hands of people with a lot of knowledge. However, my little Meta misadventure allowed me to realize that there is one glitch in this system: people who have a high reputation thanks to a great expertise in some languages have all privileges to vote on the moderation of questions pertaining to languages they know nothing about. As a matter of fact, comments to my Meta post (some still there, at least one deleted by its author) included statements such as "I don't know enough about R to see why it wouldn't be a duplicate" or "I don't know anything about R". Yet, those who admitted not knowing enough about R to see why this is not a duplicate did vote.

I believe (but of course I cannot test) that if this Meta post had been reviewed by R users only, the result would have been different. Unfortunately, there is no way to tag Meta questions with language tags. New tags can be added, but I don't have enough rep at this point and since there currently is no language tag, even if I had been able to create an [r] tag, I suspect that it would not have been approved.

Conclusion

After this experience, it is my feeling that users in Meta should only vote whether a question should be re-opened, etc. if they can themselves answer that question.

There are a lot of similarities between languages and a great expertise in a number of them can provide a lot of insight into an unknown or little known other language. It certainly gives a user a lot of coding understanding and programming proficiency. Yet, languages also have their idiosyncrasies.

If someone is unable to answer the OP's question themselves, regardless of their expertise elsewhere, their badges, and their reputation on the site, there is a great risk that they may not be attuned to subtleties or may not have enough understanding of the problem to accurately and soundly assess whether the question linked as duplicate indeed answers the OP's question... And in regard to that risk, I feel that it would be wise to abstain to vote.

Suggestion

This question might receive another sweep of downvotes (my Meta experience so far has not been very successful :D). But because a weakness in moderation decreases the quality of the website and is a disservice to users, I thought that I would still bring this up and see what users in the community with much more experience than I have would think of this and whether they may have suggestions to decrease this problem.

There is obviously no way to ensure that people casting a vote on a Meta question with the [reopen-closed] tag would be able to answer the question themselves. But one potential solution would be to only allow people who have a tag badge of at least one of the tags of the question to vote. It is not a perfect system and it might be too prohibitive (with too few people able to cast votes on those questions). But it would greatly limit situations such as the one I encountered.

Another solution (though I like it less) would be to allow the tagging of the [reopen-closed] Meta questions with the main site tags. It would not prevent people who don't know anything about a language to cast their votes on the moderation of a question pertinent to that language, but at least it would help bring the attention of people who have expertise in the language to the Meta question.

Edit

I (wrongly) thought that the up/down votes of a Meta post with the tags [support][reopen-closed] were votes about whether a question should be reopened or not.

I.e. I wrongly thought that it would be the same as with the [feature-request] tag:

On posts tagged feature-request, voting indicates agreement or disagreement with the proposed change rather than just the quality or usefulness of the post itself.

I now understand (thanks to comments I received on this post) that the votes were about my post itself, not about whether the main question had been accurately or inaccurately closed as duplicate. I still find this a little confusing as the comments below my post seemed to be pertinent to the re-opening of the main question rather than about my post itself, but at least I am now greatly reassured to see that the moderation of the site had not failed as I thought: since I first posted this, and despite the downvotes on my post requesting that the main question be re-opened, that question was re-opened thanks to reviewers votes (that is the part I had been confused about).

So I am still not sure whether it is always appropriate to vote on Meta questions pertinent to a main question when one does not have expertise on the subject of that main question, but at least, I am really glad to know that it does not matter since this is not what determines the outcome of the moderation of the main question.

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    Note that votes on Meta questions about reopening don't do anything in themselves. They're expressions of (dis)agreement with the conclusion or judgment of the way the argument is presented. Note also that the Meta effect that drives votes (usually negative) to posts that are linked on Meta can't do anything to stop reopening, since only /review/reopen voters get any chance to hit Leave Closed. Oct 30, 2018 at 0:34
  • 4
    It's quite difficult in practice to enforce "don't vote if you can't answer". First of all, anything on Meta should have nothing to do with your technical prowess or your SO Proper achievements. If anything, only moderation on SO Proper should be tied to technical prowess. But how will you test "if you can't answer"? Even a badge in a specific technology doesn't say much about whether you are able to answer any one specific question. And requiring an answer before you can close it as duplicate seems… counterproductive.
    – deceze Mod
    Oct 30, 2018 at 0:39
  • @NathanTuggy: obviously I did not do my homework fully before posting as I don't know who "/review/reopen voters " are... I guess I have to keep digging in the help pages
    – prosoitos
    Oct 30, 2018 at 0:40
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    @prosoitos: Anyone with 3k rep can go to the review page and select the Reopen Votes queue. But queue items are randomly presented, so it is very difficult to pick out a specific question to act on. Oct 30, 2018 at 0:42
  • @deceze "Even a badge in a specific technology doesn't say much about whether you are able to answer any one specific question." I fully agree with you there. But at least, a tag badge is a proof of a serious understanding of a language
    – prosoitos
    Oct 30, 2018 at 0:45
  • Thank you both for your comments. I certainly learnt more about the functioning of the site, the role of Meta, and the moderation of questions.
    – prosoitos
    Oct 30, 2018 at 0:58
  • Since you called out both me and another user who commented on meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/375880/…... Do you disagree with me not voting on main or you disagree with other user presumably voting to reopen post on main? Or maybe you suggest not voting on meta posts at all unless some condition? I'm somewhat confused by your proposal... (or maybe proposal is "you all should have reopened the post instantly as I said so"?) Oct 30, 2018 at 1:42
  • Also it may be good idea to clarify how quality of a meta post is related to content of the main post it links to. If one asks no-effort duplicate meta question about some main post why do you believe meta post should not be moderated like any other content? Oct 30, 2018 at 1:46
  • I was calling for caution before voting on the moderation of a question when one does not have expertise relevant to that question. But now that I have learnt, thanks to @NathanTuggy, that those votes do not determine the outcome, I am ok with the current system. I thought (wrongly) that those votes would determine the outcome of the re-opening of the question
    – prosoitos
    Oct 30, 2018 at 1:46
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    It sounds like your post really no longer reflects what you tried to propose... Consider deleting or rewriting... I.e. I didn't realize that you assumed some sort of connection between meta and main posts (except link). Oct 30, 2018 at 2:06
  • I added an edit to, hopefully, clarify this
    – prosoitos
    Oct 30, 2018 at 2:28
  • Bummer there is no badge for record numbers of downvotes :P
    – prosoitos
    Oct 30, 2018 at 4:26
  • I think it is a different (though related) question. To be more precise: the question is quite similar indeed, but because it has this "unclear" aspect, the answers don't really answer my question while @deceze really answered me
    – prosoitos
    Oct 30, 2018 at 6:27
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    Now, the duplicate of the duplicate has an answer from @deceze which, even if it does not at all address the problem of duplicates but of "unclear questions" still says "everyone should be able to vote on anything." So I guess it could be considered a duplicate
    – prosoitos
    Oct 30, 2018 at 6:41
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    Evidently I've been around too long…
    – deceze Mod
    Oct 30, 2018 at 6:45

1 Answer 1

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Should users who could not answer a question really be allowed to vote on the moderation of that question?

In general, very broadly speaking: absolutely yes.

Some (actually, a lot of) questions are unanswerable, which is exactly the reason they must be closed. In other cases it's obvious that a post has fundamental problems and needs to be closed for some reason or another, even if the topic is not your personal area of expertise.

On Meta in particular, there's no formal voting at all. Votes here do nothing, and there are few strict rules for using votes. Essentially everything on Meta is "manual" and discussion based. Votes are just a coarse first indicator of (dis)agreement.

Having said all this, of course each individual should show restraint in how they use their votes. You don't have to have an opinion on everything and abstaining is a perfectly valid option. If you're unsure of a particular topic, you should use that option.

Codifying that into anything more formal than what exists now is probably not necessary. Most of the time the existing system works well enough, and introducing technical enforcement will probably have more downsides than upsides (see second paragraph above).

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    Thank you for your answer. Had I known what I learnt thanks to the comments posted to my question (mostly @NathanTuggy's), I would not have posted it. I am, however, happy that I did as it allowed me to understand the site a lot more. Thank you for your time. Note: I did post an edit to the question to explain my former misunderstanding.
    – prosoitos
    Oct 30, 2018 at 2:35

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