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I'm sure that most of us can imagine the situation where we want to write a comment but are unsure whether it's appropriate?

Why does the UI prevent us from raising a flag against our own comments, as if to save us from ourselves? Is the message that I need to be completely sure of everything that I type, and only other people can be wrong?

I would like this filter removed for a number of reasons. Another is that I want an entire thread to be considered without assigning blame, or another when I want to ask about a comment that has since been deleted that I have responded to.

Does anyone agree, or is this whole site just a shark battle?

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  • Comment flags are... A very weak medium for communication at the best of times. I suspect this would cause more frustration than it would alleviate.
    – Shog9
    Sep 22, 2018 at 16:27
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    "A shark battle" is an exaggeration. It's more like squirrels in a garbage can.
    – user6655984
    Sep 22, 2018 at 17:15
  • @Shog9: "Comment flags are... A very weak medium" But flags are the only medium. There is nowhere in-band to ask peers about something minor such as the legitimacy of a post. Meta is a farce where one goes to be bullied.
    – Borodin
    Sep 22, 2018 at 18:29
  • @Borodin In the absence of further developments, I guess any in-band venue of that sort would reproduce the culture problems Meta currently has. (Getting the mods to answer such questions would avoid that, but given how busy they already are I'm not sure we want to assign this extra attribution to them.)
    – duplode
    Sep 22, 2018 at 18:39
  • @duplode: It is a common mantra that “the moderators are too busy” but I have no way of verifying that. Moderators always claim to be too busy, just like the answering machine that tells us that “we value your call”, but either it's untrue or Stack Exchange are keeping too much money for themselves: either way someone is lacking. I wonder why the "be nice" drive hasn't reached Meta where it is most urgently needed.
    – Borodin
    Sep 22, 2018 at 18:47
  • @Borodin: "I have no way of verifying that." What's your point? Nobody's asking you to follow after moderators to make sure they're doing the job you think they should be. Moderators aren't being paid; they're volunteers. If you don't think they're doing their jobs, then run in the next election. Sep 22, 2018 at 18:54
  • @Borodin Thinking a little more about it, I can vaguely envision an "Advice" queue with discussion not subject to voting and closing, to which you could send your own posts and comments by flagging them. Implementation aside, I see two complications: (1) To prevent bad advice and bad actors from spoiling it, the queue would require visibility and moderation, which means it would also become Meta fuel; and (2) It doesn't seem unlikely that, with such a queue in place, folks coming to Meta to ask questions about their posts would be chided with "Why didn't you flag it? Stop polluting our feed!".
    – duplode
    Sep 22, 2018 at 19:01
  • @Nicol: I thought my point was clear, and I knew I would get a "moderators aren't paid" comment. The fact is that either the moderators that we have are lazy or Stack Exchange is being cheap and needs to employ moderators who are up to the job.
    – Borodin
    Sep 22, 2018 at 19:05
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    @Borodin: You're basically trying to abdicate responsibility for your posts. You want to write whatever and tell someone "Yeah, I can't be bothered to decide if I'm being rude or not, someone else should figure it out." That's not how the site is supposed to work, and moderators were not elected to do that job. Stop trying to make moderators into something they're not supposed to be. Sep 22, 2018 at 19:20
  • @duplode: Meta has been allowed to go off the rails, and is now just a barrel of trolls (or squirrels). It only needs moderation, but I think it has gone too far to be redeemed, and a fresh start is necessary. Yes, an "advice" forum would be nice, but there's no reason why a site for questions about SO in general shouldn't work. Quite why Meta has been allowed to get so bad I can't imagine, as it seems to me that a welcoming help facility is even more important than the main site being approachable.
    – Borodin
    Sep 22, 2018 at 19:21
  • @Nicol: This is tiresome. Am I to assume that you have never ever been unsure about a decision and wished for someone else's advice? If so then you are in a tiny minority.
    – Borodin
    Sep 22, 2018 at 19:24
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    @Borodin: "Am I to assume that you have never ever been unsure about a decision and wished for someone else's advice?" What does that have to do with what we're talking about? We're talking about a specific case of making posts on Stack Overflow. Whether I ask advice about something in other contexts is irrelevant. Moderators are not there to give you "someone else's advice". If you feel unsure about making a statement, do not make it! Sep 22, 2018 at 19:25
  • @Nicol: I don't know whether you're being deliberately obtuse or your confusion is genuine, but you're clearly never going to understand my point. I don't see any point in continuing to respond to irrelevant comments, so you'll get no more from me. Ironically your posts are a great example of why my suggestion should be implemented.
    – Borodin
    Sep 22, 2018 at 19:34
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    @Borodin: "Ironically your posts are a great example of why my suggestion should be implemented." How? I certainly wouldn't flag them; I'm sufficiently confident that they are statements appropriate for the site. And you are capable of flagging them as it currently stands. So what you want would in no way be helpful with regard to my comments. Sep 22, 2018 at 19:36
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    OK, I've read the question, and comments, a couple times. This request makes less sense now than when I first opened it. It's meta, so simply comment or answer with your take on the question. If you later are persuaded to change your opinions, in the light of further commenst/answers from mods/CM users/whatever, just say so. Trying to drag mods into your decisions with and views by flagging is a near-pointless waste of effort on all sides:( Sep 22, 2018 at 22:59

1 Answer 1

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Thinking aloud, without looking at past discussions: I guess that is because flagging a comment is not so much like asking a question ("Is this okay?", which would be answered by a mod), and more like making an assertion ("This is not okay", a claim which a mod evaluates and possibly acts upon). If you believe a comment of yours is not okay, you can just delete it, and if you want to ask someone else whether a comment of yours is, or would be, okay, Meta remains an option.

Another is that I want an entire thread to be considered without assigning blame [...]

It seems to me a custom flag on any of the comments with an explanation that you are pointing at the thread as a whole should be enough for dealing with that.

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  • "Meta remains an option" Ha hah! Meta falls so very short of it purpose that it's ridiculous. It is its own huge problem, and should be removed altogether.
    – Borodin
    Sep 22, 2018 at 18:33
  • "If you believe a comment of yours is not okay, you can just delete it" Of course you can, but if you had never been less than absolutely certain about something you wrote then you would be very strange. There is no way to express that, and Meta, which should be a place to address doubts, is a shambles where everyone hates everything you say.
    – Borodin
    Sep 22, 2018 at 18:37
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    @Borodin: If you're uncertain about a comment, you shouldn't flag it. That's the point Duplode is trying to make. You flag things you want to remove; you don't make work for moderators by saying, "hey, there might be something wrong here. Maybe you could kinda look at it." Sep 22, 2018 at 18:44
  • @Nicol: So you have also always been absolutely certain about everything you write or flag? And if your flags are rejected then someone else is just wrong. I clearly don't belong amongst such gargantuan intellects.
    – Borodin
    Sep 22, 2018 at 18:52
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    @Borodin: I'm of the opinion that if someone else is certain that what I've written is flag-worthy, then they can flag it themselves. But yes, if I post a comment, I think it's kosher. I don't post comments that I think might be inappropriate. They might ultimately be determined to be inappropriate, but I don't post something that I'm unsure will be appropriate. Sep 22, 2018 at 18:53
  • @Nicol "But yes, if I post a comment, I think it's kosher" But you implied that you must be certain of your comment, and there is no room for error. Just thinking it's kosher is something anyone can do, but we usually like to seek others' opinions when we are uncertain. Just insisting that you are right and anyone who disagrees is an idiot is extremely pompous.
    – Borodin
    Sep 22, 2018 at 19:00
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    @Borodin: "Just insisting that you are right and anyone who disagrees is an idiot is extremely pompous." I never claimed that I believe anyone who sees my post differently "is an idiot". I merely claimed that, at the time I made the post, I think it's fine. There's a difference between saying "I think this is fine" and "Anyone who thinks this is not fine is a fool". Sep 22, 2018 at 19:02
  • @Nicol: Yes, and we're back to the point of my question and in the domain of judgement, where we think we're right but have some doubts. You started with "If you're uncertain about a comment, you shouldn't flag it " so presumably you are completely certain about everything you post? Somehow I doubt it.
    – Borodin
    Sep 22, 2018 at 19:12
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    @Borodin: I'm certain enough that I don't feel the need to tell someone else to decide whether what I've posted is appropriate or not. Again, I may be wrong, but that doesn't mean I don't accept responsibility for being wrong if I indeed am. Flagging is for "this comment should be deleted" not for "maybe something is going on here." Sep 22, 2018 at 19:21
  • @Nicol "Again, I may be wrong"* Then according to your own rules, you shouldn't have posted your words at all: you weren't certain.
    – Borodin
    Sep 22, 2018 at 19:28
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    @Borodin: You have a very strange idea of what it is to be "certain" of something. Being "certain" does not mean being "correct". I've been certain that I was right about something, until I was shown that I was wrong. It happens. I'm sure that's happened to you too, where you were absolutely sure about something but turned out to not be right. Being right and being certain are not the same. Sep 22, 2018 at 19:30
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    @Borodin If you believe that, why are you using Meta?
    – Dan Bron
    Sep 23, 2018 at 4:17

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