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TL;DR After considerable downvotes, a question gets improves to no longer warrant the downvotes but they are rarely reverse since users move on. How can we prevent this situation or encourage users to revisit downvoted questions after they are edited?

This is a topic that's been on my mind for a few years now. A particular example of this happened today and got me thinking of how to present it. A person presented code as an image. There were quite a few comments. There was pressure in the comments. Ultimately the OP edited the question to have an MCVE (the ultimate goal). Although the question was then closed as a duplicate, the person actually got an answer, instead of walking away feeling scolded and still none the wiser. They may even end up being one of our top contributors in years to come. Who knows.

I've included redacted screen shots of the comments. When I arrived at the post it had 8 downvotes.

enter image description here
enter image description here enter image description here

The user took on board the feedback, did get a little antsy with the pressure, but ultimately it was a good finish IMO.

The orange numbers indicate flags on the comments, some flags were marked helpful some were declined. You'll note some of the comments that weren't flagged were actually deleted. (Ultimately this is not about that, but may be of interest to see the day in the life of a mod and how we/I think)

Spam and Rude/Abusive flags

It takes 6 spam or R/A flags to delete a post:

6* red flags: post is locked and deleted, ...

When a question or answer is deleted as spam or rude/abusive, each spam or R/A flag (or red flag) casts an automatic downvote.

Each red flag, during its validity, carries an implicit downvote from the Community user, and it does not affect the flagger’s reputation.

If the spam or R/A flags are cleared on a post, the downvotes are automatically reversed.

Basically these types posts are limited to an extent to how many downvotes they receive, as they're usually deleted quite quickly off the site, thanks to smoke detector and the charcoal team.

Closing and Deleting posts

When a post is off topic or low quality people are encouraged to downvote, and/or flag or vote to close it and/or delete it.

It takes 5 close votes to put a question on hold, 3 delete votes to delete a post, 4 recommend deletion votes from the low quality queue to delete a post.

The ability to delete a post quickly once it is closed is limited to >20k rep users, moderators and the community team. <20k rep and >10k rep holders need to wait 2 days.

Excessive downvoting

Now what happens when a post is put on hold and it continues to gain downvotes? A user posted code as an image. They didn't post an MCVE. The post makes it to meta. The OP becomes argumentative under the stress of feeling overwhelmed with downvotes and comments (it happens to the best of us). Whatever the reason a post gets >6 downvotes. Sometimes significantly more than an offensive post would normally get.

Now, the user edits the post and makes it on topic and improve its quality (yes, it does happen). Rarely are the downvotes reversed, the original voters have moved on (the site is huge), but the poster is left with a heavily downvoted post. This does not provide a good incentive for users to want to improve their posts.

Personally, I see a disparity between the amount of downvotes a low quality post may get compared to a genuine spam or rude/abusive post. To me it's a flaw in the system. We're ultimately wanting people to improve things and there's many people who have false starts. I don't see how lathering on excessive downvotes achieves anything to actually improve the site. Afterall it only takes a net of 3 downvotes to remove a post from the front page.

Honestly, if we have posts worthy of >3 downvotes, they probably shouldn't be on the site (yes historically that can be argued, but realistically looking at new posts). Is there any value on having >3 net downvotes on new posts?

Should excessive downvotes be converted to delete votes?

Do we need to rate limit downvotes on main?

Any suggestions of how to improve this?

Do we need to improve this?

related:
How many down-votes is enough for a user to understand their problem? | https://meta.stackexchange.com/a/168565/310756

Trying out a new tag here. Love it? Hate it?

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  • 6
    I don't think you deanonymized the comments enough; there's enough in there to identify at least two users: you, and one other.
    – fbueckert
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:20
  • 3
    @fbueckert and André, I don't think those are valuable points to the overall question being asked here. You guys plan on going out and berating those users?
    – MonkeyZeus
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:24
  • 2
    @fbueckert I'm not making a 100% effort to anonymise it or I wouldn't have gone with the comments. The dupe link is there also. But thanks.
    – user3956566
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:24
  • 1
    I was just pointing it out seeing the rest was nicely (and a little bit annoying because I first thought anon1 was an actual user :) ) redacted. Aug 29, 2018 at 13:28
  • 10
    Ehhh...from an actual quality standpoint, I'm against limiting downvotes in any sense, unless we subject upvotes to the exact same limitations. Downvotes shouldn't be delete votes, as often the content is still valid (good faith answer, question is on-topic), and the votes provide a signal that the content is problematic (wrong, security issue, breaks at any scale, etc.). The more heavily downvoted, the more strongly it sends that signal.
    – fbueckert
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:28
  • 2
    @MonkeyZeus done! and thanks for that. After spending so long writing this I'm bushed.
    – user3956566
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:31
  • 4
    Well, yeah; it's each user's subjective judgement of the post. You're not going to get consistency in any granular sense. The community, in general, will signal the overall judgement, based on the aggregate judgements made. If we wanted exact judgements of quality, we'd leave it to an AI, not people.
    – fbueckert
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:32
  • 3
    I mean, eventually the roomba will pick it up if it meets the criteria for auto-deletion. If downvotes translate into delete votes at a certain threshold, it's going to cause a lot of unfriendliness; users will post a crap question, we'll downvote it into oblivion, and the user won't have any idea what just happened, especially in popular tags. They post it again, thinking something bugged, it happens again, only worse, and before you know it, they can't ask questions anymore. There needs to be a delay between downvoting and deletion so users can at least try to shape it up.
    – fbueckert
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:47
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    @fbueckert: To be fair, I already guessed which question it was from Yvette's title - I myself had the same thought when I upvoted it to -7. And with the actual comment texts, anyone could find the question using Google. The anonymization is not to hide identities, but to avoid distraction.
    – MSalters
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:53
  • 2
    I've always thought reducing your opinion of a post down to a single +1/0/-1 vote is inherently flawed. For me personally, this discourages voting on things that are only moderately useful or moderately useless. Aug 29, 2018 at 13:56
  • 2
    @YvetteColomb I mean no offense personally. Yet I must point out that it is human nature of denial of self faulting, and it is human nature to turn a blind eye on justified criticism, especially there's support material (intended or not). The best we can do is not only provide any escape path sometimes. That's why I say you made a bad comment, not because what you said is objectively wrong (we can have discussion on that), but because you provided the user a way to escape, and thus (I'm sure not intended) wasted a lot other contributor's effort to tutor the origin OP.
    – tweray
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:28
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    The fact that the asker was editing and revising was great! That's what's supposed to happen. Your first comment there was fine; it supports the intended behaviour and keeps things moving. The second comment is just venting at curation activity and serves zero purpose to making the question better. It's actually actively detrimental to improving the question, as the asker twigged on that to vent themselves. At best, it did nothing.
    – fbueckert
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:32
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    @Dukeling and that's my main worry with limiting the number of downvotes.... if we look at this example post. It was at -8 at a point. Now between the edits and a bit of meta effect, it's at -1 (or it was last I checked). That means that the OP made a good amount of rep, from a post that is still technically "bad" (at least according to score). Imagine had we limited the score to -3 instead of letting it flow to -8...
    – Patrice
    Aug 29, 2018 at 16:51
  • 2
    The way Reddit addresses this is by not showing scores lower than 0 (it has percentage upvoted, which tells you something, but leaves the actual score somewhat unclear). I always thought that was the better system if your goal is to make users feel more welcome. Aug 29, 2018 at 17:21
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    This raises an interesting question: Does it even make sense to be able to up/downvote closed questions? Doesn't that kind of undermine part of the idea behind closing, which is to "pause" the question in order to let the problems be fixed? Aug 30, 2018 at 18:01

4 Answers 4

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If you think that the post is helpful you can upvote it. You don't get to tell other people that they're not allowed to think a post isn't useful. You don't get to say that they're not allowed to express their opinion of the post's quality. If you think the post is good, you get your vote. But everyone else gets their vote too.

People downvoting a bad post that isn't useful isn't "excessive downvoting". It's them doing their job. People criticizing them for providing accurate feedback on a post's quality is the real problem here.

Additionally just because the author made their post a bit better doesn't mean that the post is now a great post. (Maybe you think it is, maybe I would too, but as I can't see the post I can't know my opinion on it.) Given that it's a duplicate, there's a good chance it wasn't particularly well researched. It may well have other problems as well, besides just the OP not providing the code to reproduce their problem. Given that the user both made so many egregious mistakes, and were so inappropriate in the comments that you've shown, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to see other problems with the post.

Given that you've provided every indication that everyone who downvoted the post sincerely felt the post wasn't useful, clearly they were correct to cast their votes, and were not in fact voting on something other than the post's quality, so there's no reason at all to try to stop them from casting those votes. They were helpful votes.

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    @Yvette while I get your point, doesn't that contradict directly the usual SO guidance on voting? "good = upvote" "bad = downvote". Nowhere in our usual voting guideline does it talk about a "score" you need to get the post to. I definitely get your point and agree that a new user being slammed with downvotes will more easily see it as hostile. But I think that the change you need to fix this is to change the quality mechanisms of stack, which would now be closer to "vote so the post gets to the score it deserves". I do agree we can make a better job of getting improved posts revisited though.
    – Patrice
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:42
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    @YvetteColomb In what way can 8 or 11 upvotes be more helpful than 3? Would 100 upvotes be better? Why should I not be allowed to express my opinion on a post's quality just because 3 other people have done so? What if other people come along later and upvote it, now the post's score in no way reflects the sum of the opinions of the people that have looked at it? How is having information on how many people felt a post wasn't helpful not helpful, or at least any less helpful than seeing how many people thought a post was helpful?
    – Servy
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:47
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    There are mechanisms to delete such a post. Most posts that get downvotes like this do get deleted. Just generally not immediately. The author is given time to attempt to correct the post. Many can't, but we at least give them that opportunity. How is taking that chance away by deleting the post right away, rather than in a few days, more helpful for them? After all, they can always delete the post themselves if they want it deleted.
    – Servy
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:47
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    This answer is missing the point. The downvotes were correct. They applied to a previous iteration of the question. There's now a new question in place. Since StackOverflow claims that bad questions should be edited instead of asking new questions, it follows that we need address how outdated downvotes should be removed. Voters manually retracting them has proven not to work.
    – MSalters
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:48
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    @MSalters How do you know that the voters now think that the post is good?
    – Servy
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:49
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    @Yvette sure, we can change the delete mechanisms for Stack and make them so that these questions get removed fast. We can also improve the feedback mechanisms so people who did downvote can reevaluate edited content. The main problem I see with "isn't 3 downvotes enough?" mentality is that it requires a 180 on our voting ways. Voting to get to a score is really different than "upvote if good, downvote if bad". Anyway, to Servy's point... if I don't downvote because "3 is enough", but then the post gets upvotes... I've silenced myself from giving feedback, and the post is at a higher score.
    – Patrice
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:52
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    @YvetteColomb Making deleting of questions that really are bad easier on question authors is indeed something that I'd like to see. Right now we do too much to try to stop people from deleting really bad questions just to stop people from deleting potentially good questions. I think more can be done to make self deleting the former easier, while still discouraging self deletion of the latter. And yes, it's a problem on the site that people seem to think that correct but unuseful answers to unuseful questions should be upvoted, even though they're not useful. It causes lots of problems.
    – Servy
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:53
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    @YvetteColomb Why are you bragging about getting a question that you think is bad, posted by a user that acted highly rude to the people trying to help them, a whole pile of upvotes? I'd be ashamed if I did that.
    – Servy
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:56
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    @YvetteColomb Your judgement is that the post did not warrant voting on. Beyond that, how people vote is their personal judgement. If it actually is a useful question, it will slowly work it's own way out of the hole the asker put it in. We're not expecting content to get an exact judgement the instant it get posted; we're relying on the long tail to make that happen over time.
    – fbueckert
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:58
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    @Servy bragging? how so? I didn't think it should be equally upvoted. It was like a reverse meta effect. I didn't upvote it. I made that clear. I just think the pile on of downvotes was excessive. I have realised my influence on the site has changed, so I'm mindful about not influencing people to up or downvote anything excessively.
    – user3956566
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:59
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    @YvetteColomb Well it came off as bragging to me. You seem to think it's a good thing, at the very least, whether or not you're proud that it was caused by you is really irrelevant; you think it's a good thing that a post that you don't think is useful, posted by someone who was rude and acted inappropriately in comments when others were politely trying to help, got a lot of upvotes, all because you think the post shouldn't be downvoted for being not useful, even though the purpose of downvotes is expressly to cast them on posts that aren't useful.
    – Servy
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:02
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    @MSalters Why is there no point in editing the post just because it has downvotes? Of course there's a point in it. Deletion is the (almost) permanent action here, not downvotes, hence the difference.
    – Servy
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:08
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    @MSalters If it's a useful post, it will get upvotes. If it's not, it won't. Nothing says the system is supposed to work instantly. And at no point does any question deserve answers.
    – fbueckert
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:19
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    @YvetteColomb Yes, duplicates aren't necessarily bad, but they're usually bad. It's pretty rare to see good and useful duplicate posts. Providing an MCVE is like the bare minimum. It takes more for a question to actually be good and useful. I personally have higher hopes for people posting questions than just posting their code. I also note that this user demonstrated an unwillingness to edit and take advice from others. They choose to be rude and insulting instead.
    – Servy
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:28
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    That you're trying to prevent people from getting post banned when they're consistently posting bad posts that many people feel aren't useful is a problem. There's a reason those people get post banned. They're extremely harmful to the community, and keeping them around is what's driving away the experts who provide valuable content. You can't keep both types of users on the site.
    – Servy
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:28
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We could encourage, or even force, the user to temporarily delete the question to improve it.

The way I see it: if a question has received more than x down/close votes shortly after posting, an automated message appears at the top, just like the message you receive when receiving a single duplicate vote (visible to only the OP):

Your question has attracted substantial negative attention. This usually means it doesn't meet our quality standards. Consider temporarily [deleting]‌(link) it while you make adjustments to the question, to avoid attracting additional negative attention. For pointers on asking questions, see the Help Center, specifically How do I ask a good question

Sample message to be taken with a grain of salt

Temporarily deleting the question might allow the user to turn the tide. Also, if we start mentorship programs again, these users might be good candidates for them, as they already have something specific to discuss, and have (apparently) made a mistake somewhere.

However, I've got my skepticism about the efficacy of editing closed questions and then attempting to reopen them. I've shared my ideas on how to improve this process here

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    You'd also need to suppress the "don't delete posts because you'll get post banned" messages in such a case.
    – Servy
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:07
  • Totally agree - but in an automated way. If x number of downvoted posts were only visible to the OP and users >10k and perhaps anyone who had commented on it (to allow discourse for editing and improvement) it would help the site. We wouldn't need to close vote at all. Or delete vote.
    – user3956566
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:07
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    @Servy yes! very good idea re the suppression. The fit of trying not to be post banned, and editing, and people wanting to get rid of bad posts is a bit of a pressure cooker.
    – user3956566
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:08
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    @YvetteColomb That's what I meant with just like the duplicate message, but I see now that was unclear since it might refer to the message when it's closed instead of the message before it gets closed. I've clarified a bit, but feel free to reword if you feel it can be improved even more.
    – Erik A
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:12
  • @ErikvonAsmuth yep, but what about instead of asking the user to delete it, it's just not visible to others (deleted, but not to the OP or a set of users who may be able to help the OP). A semi deletion? Others can comment, but it's not showing up in the search results or the front page? It's a concept and I haven't got it all there.
    – user3956566
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:15
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    @YvetteColomb I've thought about that too, and it might be even better, but it's more complicated (yet another state a question can be in), and it overlaps a lot with the intention behind putting a question on hold (no answers, just discussion about how to improve it and edits, clear indicator on main page), just without the voting.
    – Erik A
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:21
  • Yep. I honestly think we need to totally rethink how we handle low qual posts. The close system is laborious and not really working if the review queue is any type of measure.
    – user3956566
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:25
4

The hope would be that you can edit your question, then over time, those downvotes will be countered by upvotes cast by viewers who find their way onto your question just based on the pure goodness of the question. Realistically however, if a question is at -10, users who find it may simply not bother reading it expecting it to be of low quality, and even if they do, it takes a really really long time for 10 users to find their way to your question and find it valuable enough to upvote, and a good question might go years without making it to a positive question score.

We already have a method for getting posts out of the gutter, and although people usually blame it, it turns out to be a great tool for getting a post from -10 to a positive value if the post really has been improved: The Meta Effect.

The Meta Effect brings attention to your question, and gets people reading your question in spite of the current score, which, if the question is of good quality, it gives that potential of bringing your question out of the gutter relatively quickly.

Let's say you posted what could have been a good question, but it was very poorly presented, for example: Lots of irrelevant content in the question, including full code instead of minimizing it thereby occulting the error, not including information that makes answerers have to read your mind or just guess if they want to help, or you just dumped a list of requirements. All of these are reasons for downvotes (and depending on how bad they are, they can also be reasons for close voter), although it's of course not an exhaustive list. I picked these examples though because they are things that can be fixed up into a valid and useful question.

What a user needs to do:

1) Edit the question and make it useful.

Frequently, people will comment with some points about what's wrong with the question, and with every downvote a question receives, that's one more person who has seen the question so it's more likely that a question with 10 downvotes will have a comment as to what can be improved than one with 2 downvotes because more people have seen it.

If there are no comments, or after you've fixed everything that is covered in those comments, compare your question to the How To Ask guidelines, and try to find anything else to improve in your question.

After checking there, go through Jon Skeet's Checklist for questions and look for any last things you can fix. Remember, you're trying to make a question that was previously poorly asked into a valuable question. If you're not willing to put all this work into improving your question, then you can't expect users to be willing to upvote your question.

2) Ask on Meta (Or in an appropriate chat room) for additional help in improving your question.

This is important: Don't directly ask for people to upvote your question. The point of participating on Stack Overflow is to contribute to the high quality Question and Answer repository, so your meta question should be focused on contributing to that goal. Of course, you might be thinking "I just want to get an answer to my question," or "I just want the rep back," or "I want out of the question ban," but if any of those are your meta question, it's less likely that your question will be well received.

This question should have a tone more like the following:

A week ago I asked How can I make x work?. Some of the commenters helped me understand that my example of what I was doing was too complicated and that the question was getting lost, so I've edited my question and streamlined it so that it's more clear. I also provided a good MCVE, and made /other changes/. I've done everything I know of to improve the question, but I want to make sure that it is good quality. What more can I do to make my question useful?

That isn't meant to be a template, but the idea is that you want to make it clear that you've put in effort to improving the question, and are asking for suggestions to improve your question. When a user actually shows their efforts, instead of just a blanket "I'm getting downvoted, what's wrong with my question," with no effort from the user, the community is much more posed to helping, because it shows that you are inviting feedback rather than preparing to fight people over it.

If you're posing the question to people in one of the chat rooms, the question doesn't need to be as formal, but it should contain that same attitude, that you are still looking to improve your post. (Thanks to André Kool for reminding me that Chat can work as an alternative to posting a question on Meta, having the same effect.)

3) If you receive any other advice for improving your question, take it.

If someone notices something else to improve in your question, you should do it. You've already put in a lot of work into making your question good, so these last few changes if there are any should be pretty minor and easy to integrate.

4) Sit back and enjoy the positive side of the Meta Effect.

The Meta Effect is basically just the fact that your question will receive more attention, and people vote on the question when they see it based off its merits. When a bad question gets the view of Meta, the Meta Effect often leads to downvotes. When a good question gets the view of Meta, the Meta Effect often leads to upvotes. Since now you have made your question into a good, on-topic and clearly asked question, you should be able it as people read your question, and, seeing that it is good, upvote it.


Be aware though that there is a degree of risk. If you haven't actually improved your question, or if people judge it to be worth downvoting instead of upvoting, the Meta Effect can have the opposite effect of what you're going for. As Servy said already in an answer, "You don't get to say that they're not allowed to express their opinion of the post's quality. If you think the post is good, you get your vote. But everyone else gets their vote too." Therefore, when you do fix your question thoroughly, if you then decide to post to Meta to ask for additional help improving your question, and your question comes under greater scrutiny because of that, anything can happen.

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    I really love this answer and I would like to point out a possible alternative for going to meta to get (positive/negative) attention to your question: Ask in a(n appropriate) chatroom. (all the other points in this answer remain the same for this) Aug 29, 2018 at 17:53
  • @AndréKool That's absolutely right, I hadn't thought of chat off the top of my head. Thanks! I've added that to the answer.
    – Davy M
    Aug 29, 2018 at 22:55
  • the one issue I see with this is: it's a convoluted way to adjust voting. It would be preferable to have it somehow automated within the system (probably too hard to ever achieve).
    – user3956566
    Aug 30, 2018 at 6:01
  • @YvetteColomb It may be convoluted, and if someone comes up with a better system than the one in place, thats great. Though I don't think any sort of rate limiting like the question suggests is good because it changes how we vote (voting can change based off existing number of votes instead of question content). Likewise, I think the comparison of close/delete votes to close votes is flawed because content can be on topic but useless, so it's really apples and oranges. And the existing system with the Meta Effect works( Ex. Just this morning)
    – Davy M
    Aug 30, 2018 at 13:48
  • @DavyM it's such a long winded process to achieve it. Not double handling quadruple handling. Don't get me wrong. I upvoted your answer, as I don't have the solution.
    – user3956566
    Aug 30, 2018 at 14:22
-13

I don't think that voting privileges should be limited but I do have an idea about addressing posts which have legitimately improved.

A very loose idea which I have would be to supply a flag accessible by 10k+ users which basically sends an inbox message to downvoters along the lines of:

Question xyz has been edited and marked worthy of being re-visted. Please take a look and reconsider your voting during the after-edit voting reversal timeframe.

This isn't a suggestion to change a downvote into an upvote but rather to just assess if your voting is still valid; maybe you choose to simply remove your own downvote.

Maybe require 3 flags?

With this idea, if a question with screenshotted code is updated to a question with text code but is still a bad question then it will never get 10k users to flag it for a revisit.

14
  • oh that's a feature request on MSE that has been declined a lot. I've put a couple of bounties on it myself.
    – user3956566
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:37
  • 1
    @YvetteColomb I can see how that request is very similar to my answer but that MSE suggestion would generate WAY too much inbox noise and asks a bit much of the downvoter. By making it voluntary of 10k users which deem the post as "fixed" I think there would be better reception and minimal inbox noise. There is a big difference between OP claiming "I think this is fixed now, plz re-consider" and an established user saying "Hey guys, I think this question now has merit, take a look."
    – MonkeyZeus
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:41
  • We can't ask user to review their vote. Some of them spend most of their time reviewing post. Due to this active review they will be the frist to be hit by the notification train. Aug 29, 2018 at 13:50
  • 2
    @DragandDrop So omit people who voted via review queue? Or, create an account-level preference checkbox? There are multiple ways to solve/mitigate your proposed issue and others like it. Additionally, I don't think that 10k users are going to create a train of notifications because I'm sure they produce enough of those votes as well.
    – MonkeyZeus
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:51
  • @DragandDrop yes, there's the added strain that the downvoters have moved on.
    – user3956566
    Aug 29, 2018 at 13:57
  • I see my suggestion has 5 disagreements but not much discussion on why this is a bad idea. Is there something substantial that this suggestion does not address or completely overlooks?
    – MonkeyZeus
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:06
  • Yeh posts are funny like that. I notice some answers get heaps of discussion and others sometimes go dry. I can't really help you on why it's a bit dry.
    – user3956566
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:13
  • @MonkeyZeus The topic has been discussed to death in its many suggestions. Anyone who wanted to discuss it already has. If you want to see others' opinions on it, all you need to do is read the previous suggestions on the topic.
    – Servy
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:24
  • 1
    @Servy Years-old discussion is not always reflective of modern perception. Meta is not as cut-n-dry as programming concepts on the main site. I am surprised to see that the question itself hasn't been marked as a dupe or at least given multiple links to other discussion on the topic which tells me that people do want to re-discuss things...
    – MonkeyZeus
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:32
  • I agree with that Monkey. It's important to revisit things as the site changes.
    – user3956566
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:34
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    @MonkeyZeus You should still be reading the past discussions. Even if something change, some haven't. If you feel that the problems brought up with a proposal in the past are no longer applicable, then you should be addressing that in your proposal. Show that you've read the past discussions, weighed the feedback, and have cause for raising the issue again.
    – Servy
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:34
  • 1
    @YvetteColomb But that doesn't mean just not reading past discussions and repeating things constantly. You should be aware of past discussions, and provide cause for why you think there is something new to discuss.
    – Servy
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:35
  • @Servy yes of course.
    – user3956566
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:39
  • @Servy If you are referring to the likes of meta.stackoverflow.com/q/252055/2191572 and meta.stackexchange.com/q/1751/235923 well then I've read them and others and the biggest downside to those posts is that they suggest automated or OP-triggered notifications which is not very well received. I think my suggestions is considerably more refined and wouldn't grossly invade inboxes.
    – MonkeyZeus
    Aug 29, 2018 at 14:41

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