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I am using the AutoReviewComments browser thingy, to

  • reduce the time required to give feedback
  • avoid getting into manually written comments, which, maybe, sometimes, doesn't result in being overly welcoming. cough cough.

Beyond that, I used the famous http://idownvotedbecau.se/ links, too. But well, the official notion is now that Bare links to idownvotedbecau.se come off as cold and unhelpful, rendering them a no go.

So, to be on the safe side, I am back to use the auto messages, and I am simply looking for feedback given the content I pulled together.

###[Q] Homework
Unfortunately your question only contains requirements: it is not showing any efforts from your side to solve this problem yourself. Please add your attempts to this question, as this community is about *helping* you to solve your problem yourself, not about *solving* it *for* you. Beyond that: please turn to the [help] to learn how/what to ask here. Thanks!

###[Q] Quality
Unfortunately, you input lacks in quality regarding its **form**. Such input is very likely to be downvoted and closed. Thus: please use the [edit] link to improve your question. Also note that *preview* window (together with the help explaining formatting) to improve the quality of your posting. Please note: it is an absolute no-go to use screen shots for code/error messages. Everything that is text should be represented as (formatted/indented) text! Thanks!

###[Q] MCVE
Questions seeking debugging help ("why isn't this code working?") must include the desired behavior, a specific problem or error and the shortest code necessary to reproduce it in the question itself. Questions without a clear problem statement are not useful to other readers. See: How to create a [mcve]. Use the [edit] link to improve your *question* - do not add more information via comments. Thanks!

###[Q] Asking for help
Unfortunately your question boils down to "somebody please help me with this". But we do not regard such requests as questions in the scope of this site. Please read [this](https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/284236/why-is-can-someone-help-me-not-an-actual-question) carefully to understand why that is. Then consider to either delete this question and putting up a new, more precise question within the scope of this community. Alternatively, you could [edit], rework and improve this question. Thanks!

###[Q] Rec
Questions asking us to recommend or find a book, tool, software library, tutorial or other off-site resource are off-topic for $SITENAME$ as they tend to attract opinionated answers and spam. Instead, describe the problem and what has been done so far to solve it, or consider deleting *this* question please! Thanks!

###[A] Answers just to say Thanks!
Please don't add "thanks" as answers. Invest some time in the site and you will gain sufficient [privileges](//$SITEURL$/privileges) to upvote answers you like, which is the $SITENAME$ way of saying thank you. Thanks!

###[A] Nothing but a URL (and isn't spam)
Whilst this may theoretically answer the question, [it would be preferable](//meta.stackoverflow.com/q/8259) to include the essential parts of the answer here, and provide the link for reference. See [here](https://meta.stackexchange.com/a/94027/285661) for instructions how to write *better* "link-based" answers. Thanks!

###[A] Should be comment
This is really a comment, not an answer. With a bit more rep, [you will be able to post comments](//$SITEURL$/privileges/comment). Thanks!

###[A] Should be question
If you have another question, please ask it by clicking the [Ask Question](//$SITEURL$/questions/ask) button. Please do so now, and delete this answer. Thanks!

###[A] Another user adding a 'Me too!'
If you have a NEW question, please ask it by clicking the [Ask Question](//$SITEURL$/questions/ask) button. If you have sufficient reputation, [you may upvote](//$SITEURL$/privileges/vote-up) the question. Alternatively, "star" it as a favorite and you will be notified of any new answers. Please do so now, and delete this answer. Thanks!

( In case you are wondering why some of the messages resemble "close" messages: depending on the day of week, time of day, a question can stay open for hours, with just 2, 3 close + down votes.

I consider it helpful that person is told about "asking for library is off topic ..." immediately, instead of having him wait for 12 hours before enough close votes come in to give that message. I also believe that adding that message early reduces the number of the "here some link" answers. )

And while we are at it, a quick bonus question: is there a good mechanism to get such messages onto my mobile device?

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  • @Cerbrus I tried, but they won't do "line breaks" as quotes > either. I am all fine with somebody changing the format so that it is more readable (albeit I wanted to keep the original formatting, in case other people want to come in and copy that text).
    – GhostCat
    Aug 20, 2018 at 11:28
  • 2
    I'll have a go at it.
    – Cerbrus
    Aug 20, 2018 at 11:29
  • 54
    Personally, I'm very much against the Thanks at the end of messages, especially auto-generated ones. We don't appreciate it in questions/answers, and I think comments also don't need it, especially when the user hasn't acted on the comment yet.
    – Erik A
    Aug 20, 2018 at 11:32
  • 9
    At least some of the comments are barely more than the close message or a review comment. Is it useful to leave such comments at all?
    – BDL
    Aug 20, 2018 at 11:33
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    @BDL As explained: it can take hours before that close reason shows up. And sometimes, the majority of close reasons is actually using the wrong reason, and a message gets displayed (in the end) that doesn't help.
    – GhostCat
    Aug 20, 2018 at 11:35
  • 1
    @HereticMonkey I fixed the typo. For "form", well that is intended to cover all aspects regarding form(at), not content. But maybe that is a typical false friend where the German "form" has a different meaning then...
    – GhostCat
    Aug 20, 2018 at 13:03
  • 2
    Could be. Also, I think that idownvotedbecaus.se links should be fine if given with welcoming text. And I don't say that just because I am the author of one of the pages :). Aug 20, 2018 at 13:15
  • 3
    The Quality one doesn't actually explain what's wrong with the question (except for the note, but the note is just that - a note; additional information, not a core part of the comment). If there are things wrong with the "form", it should be things you can point out exactly, and doing so would make for a more useful comment than sticking to something generic. Aug 20, 2018 at 13:28
  • 1
    "I also believe that adding that message early reduces the number of the "here some link" answers.", Does the duplicate message stop people from answering the question? It can even make it worst.. Aug 20, 2018 at 13:57
  • 2
    @GhostCat, First, I must say that I like those message especially the not generalist one. But even for the specific message, like the dupe, rep hunter or philanthropist may ignore then. For recommendation, most of the message after the auto-message will still be link.. People are trying to help even if it's go again some of the quality rules Aug 20, 2018 at 14:12
  • 3
    The first one is just blatantly incorrect, and the second is just nonsense as far as I can tell, and it mostly goes downhill from there. If I saw any one of those comments under a question I would be flagging them.
    – user4639281
    Aug 20, 2018 at 14:30
  • 3
    Tell them what you want. All I see from your auto comments is a bunch of handwaving and nonsense. Let alone the fact that being homework does not preclude a question from being on-topic. Such questions, as with all questions, just have to be reasonably scoped and well defined. If there is a specific problem you are having with the question, tell the person what you want. Don't beat around the bush and say a bunch of stuff that does not matter.
    – user4639281
    Aug 20, 2018 at 14:56
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    On @TinyGiant 's objections, cf. Does my guidance to a new member strike the tone SO is trying to achieve?
    – duplode
    Aug 20, 2018 at 15:33
  • 4
    I'm going to have to get more sleep before trying to dissect these comments, but as for the general idea, I'm surely in favor of it, as it takes the emotions out of making comments. Aug 21, 2018 at 1:19
  • 1
    Perhaps a simple change would be to use the tooltip that shows up when hovering over the close button to list the selected close reasons. This would allow the poster to get some idea of what people are finding objectionable before the question reaches the closure point and the banner is presented.
    – TnTinMn
    Aug 21, 2018 at 14:48

5 Answers 5

16

The comments all duplicating a close reason have already been covered, so I'm ignoring those.

For those duplicating the NAA comments from review, they're also redundant, as the comments are going to get posted by the reviewers in the LQP queue. The review comments are also better, as they send a notification to the author even if the post is deleted, and include a link to the review, which is helpful for the author. The comments also get posted after the first reviewer acts on it, not the last, so they tend to come out rather quickly. Posting redundant comments is at most adding noise and at worst frustrating the author (and others) with the redundant comments. Just don't post them.

For the quality one, that's just noise. It doesn't actually say anything useful. If you want to just say that a question is of low quality, downvote it. If you have nothing to add, then don't comment. If you have some specific feedback on what makes the question bad, or how it can be improved then post that. This naturally can't be a canned comment, as it's personalized feedback. There's nothing wrong with not commenting at all; if you have nothing to say other than that a post is bad, just don't say anything.

That just leaves the "homework" reason, which is basically just the Too Broad close reason, but with the added assumption that the question is a homework problem. It has all of the same problems as the other close reason duplicates, other than that this is a much worse description of the problem than the actual close reason.

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  • 18
    I personally find "downvote, no explanations" to be very the exact opposite of welcoming. Writing new comments each and any time on the other hand is extremely time consuming. Thus an attempt to balance. And sorry, "not useful"? It tells an OP looking at his downvotes why these come in. It tells him that more will come in, and gives suggestion where to look at.
    – GhostCat
    Aug 20, 2018 at 14:57
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    @GhostCat Just repeating information they've already been told, multiple times, and that is so broad it contains no useful information, is just worse than not being told anything. That you've made it clear you're posting comments for the sake of posting comments, and not because you have anything useful to say, is precisely the problem. Either you have something more specific to tell the OP, more specific than all of the general guidance they've already been given, or are about to be given, or you don't. Just repeating stuff isn't helpful. Don't comment just for the sake of commenting.
    – Servy
    Aug 20, 2018 at 14:59
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    @GhostCat If you actually have a problem not commenting on every bad post that you see, then take the time to write a useful comment. If you think it's that important, that's your decision to make; likewise, if you don't think that's worth your time, that's fine, you're not obligated to. But posting a comment that just repeats what the system messages are already telling them just so you can feel better isn't helping them.
    – Servy
    Aug 20, 2018 at 15:02
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    You are equating "there is a page within the help center that tells users this and that" with "the new user has been told". Those things are not the same. Most newbies that react to my comments come back "I didn't know". For them, that comment popping up in their inbox is the very first time they realize that there is something to learn for them.
    – GhostCat
    Aug 20, 2018 at 15:02
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    @GhostCat For the general ones, the user was shown the page in the help center before being allowed to ask their question, and they were required to say that they'd read it before being allowed to ask their question. For the close reasons, they're duplicating a close reason, for the review queues, they're duplicating the review queue comment. None of these are just help center articles that they haven't been shown.
    – Servy
    Aug 20, 2018 at 15:05
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    And we all know how well that works, right. But beyond that: there are a lot of people who create an account, maybe ask a question, which does work, or not work, and results in feedback or not. And then these users dont ask a question for weeks or months. To then come back, to ask again, now without that guidance. Those are the ones coming back "oh thanks for the information, I didnt know that"
    – GhostCat
    Aug 20, 2018 at 17:48
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    @GhostCat If you think the system should be directing people to the help center when asking a question for the first time in a few weeks/months, then make a feature request for it. But just linking to the help center article they've already been linked to in every single bad question you see isn't the answer.
    – Servy
    Aug 20, 2018 at 18:30
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    Note: While it's distressingly common for LQP reviewers to assume that they must select one of the auto-comments, no matter how badly it fits, or how many comments have already trodden the same ground, this is not the case, and blaming someone who has at any rate come up with their own comments (especially in the event they customize them) for the duplication that reviewers are later responsible for is disingenuous. Put the blame where it belongs: on ignorant reviewers, clicking options half-blindly. Aug 21, 2018 at 7:01
  • 1
    @NathanTuggy As mentioned, the review queue is a better comment, for several different reasons. Demanding that other people spend more time and effort, to produce a worse result, just because you want to...do the same thing that they're doing but worse. Why would you want to do that? You're causing harm (even if that harm is just forcing reviewers to not post the better comment) for no benefit at all.
    – Servy
    Aug 21, 2018 at 13:14
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    @NathanTuggy Why do you think it's a good thing to force the NAA reviewers to not only review the post and determine if it's not an answer, and why, but also read through every single comment to see whether or not someone copy-pasted the review comment as a comment for no good reason, forcing them to not post the correct comment themselves, deprive the comment author of the notification of the comment, and the link to the review, and the authority that said link provides as well? And all because you don't want to just use the review queue to post the comment?
    – Servy
    Aug 21, 2018 at 13:17
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    FYI: We that are actively searching for NAA (using bots) leave these comments provide by Shog9. The reason for leaving comment is since we leave them within a few seconds after answer is posted OP is still looking at it and some users actually listen and delete the answer (or ask for more clarification). This reduce the amount posts that the LQP review queue/mods needs to review. So I do not completely agree that these comments are not useful since they reduce the overall workload of the community. Aug 21, 2018 at 15:36
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    @PetterFriberg But they don't reduce anyone's workload. They increase it. Now reviewers are forced to read through all of the comments, look for people posting duplicate comments, and then either not post a comment, harming the author because they didn't get a comment from review, or duplicating the comment. You could instead just flag the posts as NAA, and post a comment from the review queue.
    – Servy
    Aug 21, 2018 at 15:39
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    If you flag NAA, you can't post a comment from review queue and I will disagree with you, informing OP quickly (while still active on post) about the problem is useful and reduce the total amount of posts in review queue (since they often self delete). According to me this reduce the total workload but yes until any of us have any actually data I guess neither of us can prove either way. Aug 21, 2018 at 15:44
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    @PetterFriberg Sure you can comment from the review queue. Why wouldn't you be able to? If you want the OP to be informed quickly, then spend time in the review queues reviewing posts, so that they get reviewed more quickly, rather than inhibiting the review queues from being able to do their jobs as well, or adding even more work to those reviewers, making resulting in posts taking even longer to get reviewed. If you want to review non-answers, then just do so from within the system, rather than side stepping it.
    – Servy
    Aug 21, 2018 at 15:47
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    @Servy review is not available to you if you have flagged + it is not in review queue if you don't flag. So yeah entering the review queue somehow is not an option. If you see a user posting a NAA, does not it seem logic to inform them that it's not correct while they are still looking on the answer... As you know the first review comment will arrive at least 20min-2h after someone has flagged (and maybe it will not arrive). Aug 21, 2018 at 15:50
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Auto messages for situations covered by existing close reasons are flawed. Just vote to close, and expect that SE itself provides suitable text in the closure banner. Any text you provide is one or more of

  • An unnecessary repetition of the closure banner text.
  • Not as good as the closure banner text.
  • An indication that the closure banner text needs improvement, in which case you should be requesting the banner text is improved.

If you think questions are not closed quickly enough, you should be asking for means to close them more quickly (fewer votes to close, gold badge close hammer extension, for example). If you think questions that are not yet closed but have some close votes need more feedback to the poster, you should be asking for that (a banner explaining the close votes to the OP, for example).

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  • 15
    I explained that it often takes a lot of time before these banners show up. Then: one can request improvements all day long. The search feature is broken since like ever. People are complaining and request it to be improved for years. But no, we still have the broken search. See meta.stackoverflow.com/a/369793/1531124 for example. Even in that precious update with new "new user / new question" flow ... that search is there.
    – GhostCat
    Aug 20, 2018 at 13:43
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    I think this argument is especially relevant considering how few people actually end up fixing their question. If such a comment would help a significant portion of people that wouldn't otherwise have been helped, posting it might make sense even if the system actually should be taking care of communicating that information. But if it's only to help a tiny fraction who can probably find the information, not to mention the answer, elsewhere if they care enough to search, it seems like more effort than it's worth. Aug 20, 2018 at 13:48
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    @Dukeling The kind of posters who don't provide an MCVE (etc) are the kind who just want an answer. They care nithing for pist quslity. The only way to incentive them to improve their post is to remove the possibility of an answer until they do so: vote to close. They refused to read or follow the How to Ask advice the site automatically provided them with. Why should they pay any more advice to s generic comment?
    – Raedwald
    Aug 20, 2018 at 14:04
  • @Raedwald I can't tell if you agree with my comment, or misunderstand and disagree. Aug 20, 2018 at 15:41
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    "in which case you should be requesting the banner text is improved" maybe the problem isn't the text itself, but its presentation.
    – Braiam
    Aug 20, 2018 at 17:57
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    @Braiam Naturally you can request a change in the presentation of it as well, if you have ideas on how it can be done better.
    – Servy
    Aug 20, 2018 at 20:21
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    @Servy well, I've said before that I suck at UX, but we have a site for that. Why not ask them?
    – Braiam
    Aug 20, 2018 at 22:37
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I can't see anything in those comments that goes against the current code of conduct if you post them on relevant post.

If you like to use them because they help you to be nice while your boiling inside or you feel they give good directions to user feel free to do so.

Are they always useful? No

Are they never useful? No

Use your own common sense when to use them and let's stop worrying about every comment that we post in good faith because we think it will improve SO and provide good directions to OP (original poster)

1
Unfortunately, you input lacks in quality regarding its **form**.

I have no idea what this means. I can tell you that it lacks quality, as you should be your.

Please read [this](https://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/284236/why-is-can-someone-help-me-not-an-actual-question) carefully

Please use meaningful link text.

This is really a comment, not an answer. With a bit more rep, [you will be able to post comments](//$SITEURL$/privileges/comment). Thanks!
  1. This is not actionalble. It's merely a statement. Give OP something to do, or why waste their time.
  2. What are you thanking them for? We could argue about thanks being discouraged on Stack Exchange, but here it’s completely meaningless.
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    As well as meaningful link text, we can reduce character count in the URL: /meta.stackoverflow.com/q/284236 Aug 21, 2018 at 16:55
-5

The MCVE one is the only one could provide any actual value and it is just a tautology of the close vote reason. It adds nothing and is not actionable.

The one I use is:

When asking a question about a problem caused by your code, you will get much better answers if you provide code people can use to reproduce the problem. Click this comment to find out how to provide what we need to help you.

This is actionable, it tells them what to do, Click this comment to find out how to provide what we need to help you.

It is also one giant link which makes it stand out in the comments more than just plain text comments would.

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