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I recently discovered the existence of the tag . From the tag description, this seems to be something of a meta-tag, explaining the style of desired answers.

I tracked down the user who created the tag-wiki and the tag itself. That user had also asked an MSO question about C++ question of exactly this sort: "C with a little C++". None of the answers in that question specifically suggested creating a tag for this.

The creator of the tag has edited this tag into several questions that did not originally have it. But I am not convinced that all of these edits were appropriate to the tag.

While this recent question seems much like the sort of thing the tag-wiki describes, this older question about the behavior of malloc does not. The latter question seems to simply be asking about malloc. Coupled with the fact that the OP did not use one iota of C++ in their example, it seems much more likely that they're just writing C and don't really recognize the difference. And even if that were not the case, asking about the behavior of malloc is not a "C-style" question, since malloc is a part of C++ too.

But this edit is an even worse example. The question was asked before the tag existed. The question was answered and one of the answers was accepted, all before the tag existed. The accepted answer is a very C++-style answer, which means that editing the tag in invalidated answers.

Including the accepted answer. To me, this means the user did not "want the answers to be as close to C as possible", as the tag wiki states.

So, is this a meta-tag? Do we need to keep it around? Is it being frequently misused? Should it be edited into questions, and if so, when exactly?

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  • 1
    Seems that tag was ever used/tagged only by its creator. That no one else "found" it in over 7 months of its existence is a good indicator that it's a useless tag (not to mention the weird criteria in its description that "you prefer std::cout instead of printf()", "should not utilise modern C++", etc).
    – P.P
    Aug 17, 2018 at 11:42
  • I'm the one who created it, but I'm beginning to doubt that it was a good idea.
    – klutt
    Aug 17, 2018 at 14:01
  • And yes, the second example was clearly a mistake from my side. I've rolled it back now.
    – klutt
    Aug 17, 2018 at 14:03

3 Answers 3

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Yeah it is a meta tag and we don't usually allow them. The C++ community has been allowed to keep the meta tag because it is kept maintained by many users. But that doesn't mean that they should be allowed to create meta tags left and right - I don't think this tag serves any purpose.

Rather than using this tag, the questions should be edited to contain the relevant tags. In my answer to that linked question, I posted my thoughts of how and should be used, based on long experience participating in those tags.

I have now flipped my answer into a community wiki. It would be great if we could use it as a base for tag usage guidance and if other veteran users can contribute to it. Then we can eventually take that post and put it in the respective tag wikis, as tag usage guidance.


EDIT

Suggested course of action:

  • Leave the linked community wiki open for a month or so, let everyone who frequently participate in the C and C++ tags have their say, edit it as needed, and up/down vote if they agree/don't agree to what's said.
  • Integrate the community consensus as tag usage guidance into the and tag wikis. Perhaps also create a stand-alone meta FAQ post that we can use as link in comments, whenever someone uses both tags incorrectly.
  • Re-tag all according to these new tagging rules.
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As per How to tag questions about "C with a little C++", there's no such thing as "C++ style of C". There are rather headers in C++ proper that are adapted from C.

The C-standard-library-as-part-of-the-C++-standard-library does not get a special treatment unlike e.g. STL -- it doesn't even have a specific name for it! So it doesn't warrant a dedicated tag in addition to to signify that the C standard library is used rather than C++ additions.

As such, the tag can just be edited out, and a tag for the language that the code uses placed instead (or both languages in rare cases where both are involved).

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It was me who created this tag, but I'm definitely not sure that I made the right decision. I must say that I'm happy that this question came up. I thought about bringing it up myself, but I have forgotten about it. Today, I'm not sure if I think that this tag should exist.

The short information about the tag wiki is:

C-style C++. Use this tag when you want to code C, but you compile it with a C++ compiler for some reason. It could be that you prefer std::cout instead of printf() or that you simply cannot change the compiler. Answers to questions with this tag should not take advantage of new features of C++. If possible, use code that is both valid C and C++.

The purpose with the tag was to create a compromise, because a typical C++ solution would not fit these questions at all. But on the other hand, tagging it with C is not right either, since - well, it's not C. I will here present my arguments both, for and against.

Arguments against burnination

I came up with one question on my own that I think would be good to ask about a tag.

Does the tag describe an existing concept?

Yes it does. There are teachers that think that it is a good idea to protect students from the scary format strings in printf and scanf. If this is a good idea or not (I don't think it is. At all.) is not my main point here. My main point is that the concept does indeed exist. There are a lot of students that are forced to use a C++ compiler for their "C" code. One could reasonably argue that today, C-style C++ is used in the same way as Turbo C. (I don't think teachers should use that either)

Is it possible to be an expert within the field the tag describes?

One thing i often see in burninate requests is about whether it is possible to be an expert in what the tag describes. I would say that it most definitely is in this case. For starters, there are some C code (disregarding when you are using identifiers that are keywords in C++) that is not valid C++ code. The classic example is that you are forced to cast malloc in C++. But there are also other cases where a piece of code is valid in both languages, but yields different results. The market for these experts may not be the greatest, but it is most possible to be an expert, and I'm sure they do indeed exist.

I found this post about when to burninate tags, and I'll try to answer those questions.

Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous?

I would say that it does, and that it is pretty unambiguous. Exactly where the line should be drawn is not 100% clear, but I highly doubt that it would be used in a completely wrong context.

Is the concept described even on-topic for the site?

It is about programming, so it is definitely on topic.

Does the tag add any meaningful information to the post?

It does. Even though it would be obvious in most cases even without it, but it does give the information that "typical C++" is not appropriate in the answer.

Does it mean the same thing in all common contexts?

I can only imagine it being used in one context, so yes.

I also looked at this post

If the tag can’t work as the only tag on a question, it’s probably a meta-tag.

I would say that this tag would work alone, although it should be used together with the C++ tag. I find it a bit comparable to the C++11 tag or the Python-3.5 tag. They can also be used alone, but should in general also have the tags C++ and Python respectively. Perhaps a better tag to compare with is turbo-c.

If the tag commonly means different things to different people, it’s probably a meta-tag.

It does not mean fundamentally different things, but I do agree that the definition is not 100% clear.

Arguments for burnination

As you can see above I find little support for burnination when considering the usual questions about burnination. But there are still things that makes the tag questionable. I came up with some questions on my own:

Will askers use this tag properly?

Not very likely. I suspect that this tag will be added by other users in >99% of the cases where it is appropriate. Most of these questions are beginners who either are not even aware if they are using a C++ or a C compiler, or their teacher thinks it is a good idea to avoid the struggle with printf and scanf.

Will experts use this tag to search for questions to answer?

Probably not.

Is this tag about something useful in the real world?

I'm not sure. If C-style C++ is used in the real world, I suspect it is very rare. It is however used among students. On the other hand, I don't know if this is something you should hold against a tag. After all, tags like brainfuck exist, and this is a language used only for fun and for educational purposes.

Summary

As you can see there are some arguments both for and against. I'm still not sure. I do not consider it a metatag. At least not even near the degree of a tag like homework. However, I do doubt the value of the c++-cstyle tag.

If you can find a typical question about tag burnination that I have not answered, please post it in a comment below and I'll try to answer it.

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