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The problem being addressed

I've wondered for a while why bad questions get posted and I suggested an earlier feature that much of the community seemed to deem impractical/impossible. The main reason was that bad question askers simply ignore the wide array of advice that we give them through the help center, comments and moderation tools.

My idea of how to solve it

STRONGLY related to link: Rubber Duck Problem Solving

I've read a ton of wonderful blog posts about Rubber Duck Programming and it occured to me that perhaps bad question askers should have a mandatory Rubber duck Debugging session before they can post their question to SO officially. My idea is to have them write up their question and post it to "The duck" which could just be a wait time for them, a program that gives them a suggested read or some more advanced program that tells them more specific advice on how their question is bad/what to do. Maybe it could even scan for duplicates and automatically answer with those duplicates. This means the question wouldn't ever reach the main site and would be fully answered. Obviously this would require some overhead in time to program such a thing but I think the potential benefit of stopping repeated bad questions would help. I think it could also be used as a moderation tool as something to do before a question ban. I would even suggest it be mandatory for every user's first question. It might work something like this:

  1. I'm a new user or bad at asking questions and I want to post a question
  2. I form my question while the duck waits
  3. I post my question to the duck
  4. a mandatory timer counts down (15 minutes maybe?) and a suggestion to reread my question make sure its good appears
  5. the duck suggests various advice based on help center -> asking.
  6. finally after the timer expires and advice has been given and received, The duck scans for dupes with some advanced program and if none are found it posts the question to SO. If a dupe is found the question is not posted to SO and instead the asker must provide a duck verified reason why the question isn't a dupe.
  7. if the above steps are "passed" the question goes to SO. If you want, a volunteer team of new duck verified question answerers could even take care of it or it could just be posted normally.

4,5,6,7 are just ideas of how "the duck" might work and are subject to change. I'm all ears. The main point is that this can't be ignored. You could even make it so when the duck suggests advice, the page has to be loaded with the advice visible for a certain amount of time or the asker must type out the advice or must scan over it with their cursor. Something to make it so they can't easily game the system and again ignore all of SO's helpful advice. You could even make repeated bad questions involve longer duck timers or more duck steps. This both helps the asker develop rubber duck debugging skills and at the same time prevents SO from having to hand hold them through the process.

Besides the advantages of such a system I think it'd be fun to have a little quackoverflow back. I wasn't around then but it sounds like fun.

The point is to reduce the required janitorial efforts of the community (I appluad these efforts btw). Additionally its to build rubber duck debugging skills forcefully among new users and users with a history of bad questions. The system is to be completely automated and no human interaction should be needed. Ask the Duck before you ask a human.

All feedback is subject to Duck interpretation :P

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  • I mean, that's a good idea, but I feel you handwave a LOT here..... steps 5 and 6 require a lot more to be feasible than simply "the duck does this". (I also feel someone could easily build a bot to make sure the duck's actions can still be ignored)
    – Patrice
    Aug 2, 2018 at 14:44
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    We already had a duck. Unfortunately, it flew away...
    – Erik A
    Aug 2, 2018 at 14:52
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    "that perhaps bad question askers should have a mandatory Rubber duck Debugging session" yeah sure, but bad question askers don't agree with the notion that their questions are bad. And maybe they're even right sometimes.
    – Gimby
    Aug 2, 2018 at 15:00
  • Maybe a Captcha could be implemented, so as to prevent bots from satisfying the duck. Also to repsond to Gimby's comment I think that objectively speaking there is some metric of bad and good question asking thats not subject to the opinions of the asker and answerer. I also think that said metric can also be programmed into a duck.
    – Redacted
    Aug 2, 2018 at 15:06
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    You can put resources in front of askers, but you can't force them to actually pay attention to them. If there's one thing I've learned, askers would rather spend effort getting their questions in front of eyeballs instead of ensuring they're good questions. So if they don't ask a good question, downvote, close if applicable and move on.
    – fbueckert
    Aug 2, 2018 at 15:07
  • Well see thats the point of this idea: it would force askers to work much harder to get their question in front of eyeballs because they'd have to go through the duck first. Also I am sure there must be a way to force the user to type out, read, highlight or otherwise forcibly acknowledge material in front of them. If nothing else it reduces the signal to noise ratio simply by making it harder/more time consuming to ask bad questions. It becomes a harder effort tradeoff than simply making a new account and posting something quick.
    – Redacted
    Aug 2, 2018 at 15:09
  • [page of complex code].. 'printf out the value of x and y in the inner loop to see where the indexing is wrong'.....'What? How do I do that'. Down and close vote instead. Half the OP's, it's not their own code and they have no clue. They would just meta/blog/tutter the duck as 'unwelcoming and hostile', and then the duck just gets orange sauce. Aug 2, 2018 at 15:10
  • Additonally, I'm all in favor of a downvote flag and move on approach but this prevents that from even being needed in the first place. The less questions that actually need these steps, the better for SO.
    – Redacted
    Aug 2, 2018 at 15:11
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    @Redacted oh, I agree for sure with the aims/sentiment, but so many OP's are well, I don't have the right/acceptable words. Many cannot grasp that there is any more to do beyond getting a successful compile. Hollywood never shows the documentation/testing/debugging/verification loops, and so users think it's not necessary. Aug 2, 2018 at 15:15
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    Lets face it, how many times have you looked at a question and thought 'why did they not just print out or inspect the value of var1 before the loop'. The reason is: they cannot develop computer programs and so it never occurs to them to add extra code for debugging or, PHP forbid, use an actual debugger:( Aug 2, 2018 at 15:18
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    I fear that the incompetent users, thsoe who want you to do ALL the debugging for them, will just pick up a scattergun and blow the remains of the duck over the blogs: 'Panic! Hostile! Unwelcoming!' Aug 2, 2018 at 15:21
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    I don't want the abusive, 'do all my debugging' users, you don't want them, many other experienced and skilled SO contributors don't want them, SO shareholders do want them. Guess what - we're stuft :( Aug 2, 2018 at 15:24
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    Yeah I mean I agree, I see alot of people who just don't try. I believe with enough practice though that they can get better. I know me personally I started out knowing nothing about programming. Two years later and here I am. As far as the whole "unwelcoming" crowd goes, I share your sentiment on the matter and you bring up a good point. I think honestly we just need to stand firm against the push to allow those types of questions. At the very least we can automatically make it harder for them to ask such bad questions and since its automated its less subject to interpretations.
    – Redacted
    Aug 2, 2018 at 15:26
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    @Redacted we can try to stand firm but, unless your real name is 'Warren Buffet', there's not much we can do. Aug 2, 2018 at 15:45
  • @MartinJames: do you have specific proof that the shareholders do want them? Please don't be melodramatic and claim they do when that's just your opinion. The shareholders want to see return on investment, not specific subgroups of users. We have a specific close reason for questions that don't meet our criteria that would directly contradict such shareholders, and I don't see any evidence of pressure to remove that close reason.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Aug 3, 2018 at 13:49

1 Answer 1

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What might really quack you up is, most people don't realize that they're not great at asking questions, because most people ask thousands of them during the course of becoming an adult. As such, it's not immediately obvious to people that they need help for something they perceive to be a task that they mastered in grade school, and that's where the trouble begins. This would kinda infuriate folks rather than help them.

We've got the new AAQ wizard prototype brewing, and we have hopes that it's going to help people avoid mistakes that wouldn't have otherwise been immediately obvious to them.

We. Know. We're. Going. To. Need. To. Tweak. That. -- A. Lot.

It's a first stab, and we think it's going to help tremendously, but it doesn't yet come close to deliberately stating how far apart our expectations are probably going to be from any random person's pre-conceived notions of what a suitable 'question' might look like. That's because we raised the bar, considerably, but (until now) didn't reflect that in any of the new user UX.

So, I'm not ducking this, we're birds of a feather here, but let's see how effort into something a little less jarring plays out after we iterate over it a few times or folks might cry fowl.

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    I can't decide if I loathe the bad puns, or if they're totally appropriate, considering the question. I guess I'll just split the difference and facepalm.
    – fbueckert
    Aug 2, 2018 at 16:27
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    Fantastic interesting feedback and puns to boot. Made me laugh. I'll check out that prototype because I'm curious to see what you guys are working on there. I applaud the amount of effort thats already gone into this.
    – Redacted
    Aug 2, 2018 at 17:13
  • @fbueckert just duck and cover.. Aug 2, 2018 at 19:51
  • well, don't count your chickens just yet.
    – Gimby
    Aug 3, 2018 at 8:04

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