34

I was viewing an old question which contains exact steps to complete a common task on Android.

This answer, which is highly up-voted, effectively answers this programming-related question with "Just download an app from the store".

Enter image description here

To me that is "Not an answer" (should be a comment). But the upvotes say I am wrong. What's the official stance on this?

(Also worth to note: the question has attracted at least three other similar answers over the years, recommending specific apps)

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    An answer that recommends an specific app is not the same as one than says "search the store". If the question is basically asking for off-site resources, an answer pointing to one is not "not-an-answer". Not that I like either that kind of question of that kind of answer, but the rules for NAA are like that.
    – yivi
    Jul 30, 2018 at 12:00
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    If you check the revision history of that answer you can see that the majority of the content was done by the editor as well which only contributes to it being a poor answer IMO Jul 30, 2018 at 12:14
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    The number of upvotes is not an indicator of topicality. Jul 30, 2018 at 12:24
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    That looks like a perfectly good answer to me. It is the non-obvious and simple one. Knowing the Google tooling somewhat, I'd expect [android] programmers to assume they need to jockey an obscure command line, this answer points out that it is far easier to do that. If you have specific knowledge of this solution not being useful then post a comment. But current comments and votes say the opposite, you'd better be sure. Jul 30, 2018 at 12:37
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    Imo the whole question is off-topic -> general computing. The main usecase for generating an apk from an installed application is to transfer that application to another device, which is not unique to software development at all. Off-topic questions tend to attract bad answers.
    – Erik A
    Jul 30, 2018 at 12:40
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    @Erik, I think that without that last sentence, the question is on-topic. It's that last bit that should probably be edited out, since it kinda converts the question into an off-site resource request.
    – yivi
    Jul 30, 2018 at 12:48
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    @yivi Meh, I've done this multiple times (using an app), but I'm certainly not an Android-programmer. My file manager on Android (Total Commander) can do this, and I've extracted APKs just to transfer them to others using bluetooth. You can use specialized programs for it, use ADB or do other complex things, but imo it's simple and general-use.
    – Erik A
    Jul 30, 2018 at 13:00
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    Question is absolutely on topic - and the accepted answer demonstrates this because it is using the Android development tools to do exactly what was asked for. I disagree with the meta-effect that has happened here. In fact in Android I consider this quite a useful question & answer. ---- That said, I don't think this is a very good answer to an otherwise useful question, as it has gotten a lot of readers confused, thinking the OP asked for a tool. Jul 30, 2018 at 13:38
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    I disagree, @Nick because he already says he knows about "numerous apps" that can do this. So if he already has the apps, I don't see how he could be asking for said app. Jul 30, 2018 at 13:46
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    @RichardLeMesurier OP found one app that seemed to have access to the apk without root permission and asked how this was possible. User Yojimbo edited the question extensively to say "numerous apps" among other things.
    – Mick
    Jul 30, 2018 at 13:53
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    @PetterFriberg A code answer doesn't mean it's a programming problem. If someone asks how do I delete a file on Windows, I can share a C# snippet for creating a program that deletes files. But that's not very sensible. That's exactly how I see that answer you've linked. If someone asks How do I delete files in Windows using C#, however, that's on topic and it might be a good answer.
    – Erik A
    Jul 30, 2018 at 14:08
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    @RichardLeMesurier Oh, I agree that it is a legit question. I question the putting-on-hold-as-off-topic years after the question was posted. IMO it is like flagging a years-old question as "should be closed - shows no research effort" because a search now returns many results.
    – Mick
    Jul 30, 2018 at 14:54
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    @Petter I generally agree we should leave old questions as-is, but this one has many bad answers, the latest posted about a month ago. Since it's actively attracting bad answers, imo closing it is beneficial to the site. I don't know why it sparked so much discussion, though, but I'm just trying to make this site a better place.
    – Erik A
    Jul 30, 2018 at 15:29
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    @BDL So that makes the question specific to Bash programming language (on android of course) and is on-topic. However that would invalidate all but two answers.
    – user202729
    Jul 30, 2018 at 15:41
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    @HansPassant: Oh good grief, the question even says "I know it is possible because I have (one, named and linked -- or more, depending on Q revision) apps that do it; how do they work?" and you think "search for an app" is even slightly attempting to answer the question?!?
    – Ben Voigt
    Jul 30, 2018 at 21:21

4 Answers 4

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This answer is clearly off-topic for the same reason the question is on hold

Questions about general computing hardware and software are off-topic for Stack Overflow unless they directly involve tools used primarily for programming.

Since this answer boils down to "There is an app for that. Go find it", the answerer is acknowledging the question as off-topic for the site (regardless of if it is), and shouldn't have posted an answer in the first place.

Other answers give more programmatic answers, allowing for the case that the question itself is on-topic. I'm not arguing if the question is or isn't. I'm just saying, for this answer to be valid, the question has to be taken as off-topic, and the answer shouldn't have been posted.

In any case, this is still not an answer.

1) An answer must be a self-contained solution. It can reference further help, but shouldn't depend on outside resources for help. (This answer assumes a solution will still be available on the app store, and under the same search term, in 5 years. So suffers the same flaw as link only answers)

2) The OP already stated there are apps that can do this. So an answer saying that there is an app for that does not provide any new information.

3) The OP asked a How question. This does not say how to do it, but to search for a tool that already does it. (This is a bit of a grey area, but does make the answer Very Low Quality (can't be salvaged with edits), and off topic for SO.)

As for the up votes, users are able to up or down vote for any reason they want, even if it is inconsistent with the site's objectives/goals. It does not necessarily make the answer good. (There are also lots of highly up voted and closed questions, like this one.)

As this is a bit subjective, you can read more at When to flag an answer as “not an answer”?? Particularly, to the discussion about Link Only Answers as that probably most closely resembles this case.

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    There is no catch 22, if the question is asking for resource, you should not flag resource answers see "There's really only one valid exception to this rule", again I'm not saying it is a good answer but I also can't understand why people are in such a hurry to get it deleted are we making internet a better place? "if the text of the post contains an honest attempt at answering the question, then it is an answer - so don't flag it otherwise," Jul 30, 2018 at 15:18
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    @PetterFriberg But the question isn't asking for a resource. In fact, the OP is a little too vague on how he wants it extracted. Even if you accept it as a resource request answer, it suffers from the exact same flaw as link only answers. The OP Even acknowledged that their are apps that do this, so an answer to look for an app still isn't an answer. Either the answer misunderstood the question, or it didn't but still completely failed to answer the question. I suppose I'm trying to say, their are a lot of valid reasons this isn't an answer. It's hard to discredit ALL of them.
    – Tezra
    Jul 30, 2018 at 15:26
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    @PetterFriberg: The question isn't asking for a resource. The question asks "I thought it is impossible but there are apps that can do this. How is this possible?" Which boils down to "How can I access the specific folder?".
    – BDL
    Jul 30, 2018 at 15:27
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    lets circle back obviously OP and all the people upvoting it taught it was answering the question "Get APK of installed app", I think we have already established that it's a bit unclear what exactly OP in question is looking for. Either way you need to argue that it is not *honest attempt at answering the question" to flag it as NAA and I still can't understand why you desperately need it to be deleted. Jul 30, 2018 at 15:36
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    @PetterFriberg: The answer is useless in the SO context. Either we agree that the question ask for it, then the question should be deleted. Or the question ask for a programming solution, then the answer doesn't answer the question. And I'm not even talking about the fact that the suggested app doesn't exist anymore.
    – BDL
    Jul 30, 2018 at 15:41
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    @BDL 140,864 views that's some revenue for SO ;), anyway I will agree that it's unclear what OP wants so it can be closed we also already have this resource stackoverflow.com/q/4032960/5292302, I'm just fighting against the flag all bad "answer" as "Not an answer", unfortunately? that is not how SO works. Close question, delete question, delete answer if you have the rep, but don't flag it Jul 30, 2018 at 15:45
  • @PetterFriberg I would actually flag it with a custom flag that explains it is a link only answer. That is basically what it is, but without an explicit link. The consensuses is flag the question first if that is the problem. If the question isn't off topic, then flag the answer. In this specific case, the OP asked for how to access without root. This answer doesn't say how, just where to look for software (which is off topic). It does not answer the question in any way or even provide any information that the OP hasn't already stated in the question. In this case it is not a valid answer.
    – Tezra
    Jul 30, 2018 at 16:59
  • Updated to more stress list of points why this answer does not answer the question.
    – Tezra
    Jul 30, 2018 at 17:21
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    If you think this answer qualifies as VLQ then there is a problem, but not with the post in question. This answer does not qualify for NaA, and absolutely does qualify for VLQ. An answer doesn't have to "answer the question", "answer the question", or even "answer the question". Answers must appear to be an answer, that's it. If you think the answer is not useful, or misguided, or even plain old wrong, downvote it and delete vote it. Don't flag it. If the answer asks another question, asks for clarifications, or in some other way does not appear to be an answer, flag as NaA.
    – user4639281
    Jul 30, 2018 at 19:13
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    The real problem with SO is that people don't Vote-to-Close enough. Ironically, this is probably because they're trying not to be mean.
    – o11c
    Jul 30, 2018 at 21:38
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    The question is on topic. The answer is not.
    – dcorking
    Jul 31, 2018 at 11:07
  • "As for the up votes, that is just people saying they agree": no, that's what upvotes mean on meta. On the subject sites they mean the voter think it's a good answer. And although it is accurate, the answer in question is not a good one. Jul 31, 2018 at 13:03
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    @JohnBollinger How up votes are meant to be used and how they are actually used are different. Again, just look at all the highly up voted, and closed, blatantly off topic questions.
    – Tezra
    Jul 31, 2018 at 13:07
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    @JohnBollinger I meant that generally, people tend to vote for what they agree with/like. I sanitized the answer to more stress that sometimes, voting is just a little abused, and that lots of up votes does not necessarily mean it is considered appropriate.
    – Tezra
    Jul 31, 2018 at 13:24
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    The question is reopened.
    – user202729
    Aug 1, 2018 at 2:08
6

I'm not familiar with the topic being discussed, but I can say that the answer is incomplete.

Although the combination "APK extractor" might be exactly what OP is missing (and therefore linking him to the correct solution), but it feels like OP can add more details to their answer, like some of the most common extractors, or a minimal example or even a simple complete flow.

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    complete or incomplete it still is an answer to question, hence don't raise flags instead edit if you like to improve it or just vote on it. Jul 30, 2018 at 12:50
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    @PetterFriberg your comment doesn't seem relevant - who has mentioned flagging? Jul 30, 2018 at 13:02
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    @NickCardoso the question is tagged not-an-answer which refers to a specific flag (i.e the not an answer flag) and you have asked whether answers should be allowed to contain such content. What are you looking for if not for validation in flagging the answer in question and answers like it?
    – user4639281
    Jul 30, 2018 at 13:09
  • @TinyGiant Ok this is true, I was actually writing this thinking in relation to my own downvotes of such questions.This answer in particular doesn't seem to warrant the comment though Jul 30, 2018 at 13:11
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    The comment fits the answer just fine. The answer says that the author of the answer should add more stuff but the fact of the matter is that the answer is an answer, and should not be flagged. Your question does not clearly convey your intent. If you were just asking about whether you should downvote or not then the answer is "do you feel like the content is in some way not useful? Yes, then downvote. No, then dont" @NickCardoso
    – user4639281
    Jul 30, 2018 at 13:14
0

This is a clear NAA flag, regardless of what the question is asking. I will simply link to Shog9's post on MSE -> Your answer is in another castle: when is an answer not an answer?:

Specifically:

If you're still confused, forget about answers. Think about apples instead:

A, NAA, A, NAA, VLQ

Answers are just like that, but less tasty in pies.

The 4th image, labeled NAA by Shog9, is a signpost pointing to where you can go to find an apple (read: find an answer). Telling someone to "browse the Play Store" in response to "How can I do X" is perhaps a helpful comment, but not an answer.

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    You probably want a FileOutputStream Jul 30, 2018 at 14:05
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    Search for preg-split third argument, to me it seems that the post you are quoting is suggesting that it is an answer "See, this is an answer:" Jul 30, 2018 at 14:08
  • @PetterFriberg I don't see how you can read the post that says "signposts to answers are not answers" and come to the conclusion that it is suggesting that a signpost to an answer is an answer.
    – TylerH
    Jul 30, 2018 at 14:10
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    the post you are quoting is stating "Yes, they're both very short, and yes, they contain links. But strip the markup, and you still get at least a little bit of useful information", the key is: If there is a little bit of useful information it is an answer., The answers that Shog suggest to flag does not have any information Jul 30, 2018 at 14:13
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    @PetterFriberg Those examples mention specific functions that can be used. OP did not mention any specific application, just a search term. I don't believe answers consisting only of "search X engine using Y key phrase" will ever be considered answers here. At least I hope not.
    – TylerH
    Jul 30, 2018 at 14:30
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    There is too much confusion with the NAA flag, according to this comment on an old question of mine, an answer can be wrong but still be an answer and I've heard this many times, so the orange in the above picture should be classed as an answer. I believe NAA means it literally isn't an answer meaning, it is a comment, asking for clarification or something else.
    – Script47
    Jul 30, 2018 at 14:36
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    @TylerH The answer states two things 1. "variety of apps that handle the process", hence you don't need to develop it 2. It indicates how to find these apps. Now I''m not saying that it is a great answer, but according to the post you have quoting this is enough for it to be an answer "you still get at least a little bit of useful information" so you should not flag it as "Not an answer" Jul 30, 2018 at 14:38
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    @Script47 the confusion is because people like to flag answers because they are not satisfied with them, instead of dv or del voting. The normal NAA are very clear you will have no doubts; stackoverflow.com/a/51596107/5292302, stackoverflow.com/a/51596045/5292302, stackoverflow.com/questions/48869179/…. If we just try to stop to push the envelope we are fine. Jul 30, 2018 at 14:43
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    @PetterFriberg would you consider an answer in JavaScript regarding a question to do with PHP (where the question makes no mention of JavaScript) NAA worthy?
    – Script47
    Jul 30, 2018 at 14:47
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    @Script47 I would not flag it as NAA (mods are not expected to have domain knowledge), if user is posting multiple I would custom mod flag, if only 1 I would downvote then probably ask for 20K deletion in a related chat room. Jul 30, 2018 at 14:49
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    This is also related meta.stackoverflow.com/a/354508/529230, also always use common sense, do we really need to delete answer?, is it doing harm, is it creating confusion, don't try to use a rule book of how technically an answer should be written and if it does not comply we need to delete it just because of this. Jul 30, 2018 at 14:49
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    Ironically, every time I've referenced this chart and the "your answer is in another castle" aka link-only answer, Shog9 has informed me that said graphic wasn't accurate even when it was posted... Jul 30, 2018 at 15:04
  • @Draco18s Oh great... then why the heck did he post it? Respectfully I will wait to hold such an opinion for when that graphic is removed by Shog, if that's the case.
    – TylerH
    Jul 30, 2018 at 15:22
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    @Script47 On the subject of what the NAA flag means, I agree, and Shog has, too. In fact, I specifically complained about the verbiage and the fact that it means "this answer does not attempt to answer the question that was asked" despite moderators and CMs maintaining that the NAA reason should be read as "this answer does not attempt to answer any question ever possibly askable under the sun". Shog agreed the verbiage needed to change but didn't change it because... there are other more important things to do? Despite the fact that it would be a case of changing like one word...
    – TylerH
    Jul 30, 2018 at 15:23
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    @TylerH I've often wondered that too (note: I can't (easy) find any comments I've made referencing this graphic before to verify that it was Shog, but I know that I did get a comment to that effect once). Jul 30, 2018 at 15:33
-12

I feel that it is within the realm of usefulness to recommend a specific app and use-case if it fits a question, but that simply recommending one search the store is not strong enough. To me, it is pretty much as useful as saying "google this", which I don't feel is canonical answer material.

An alternative to make that sort of answer more helpful would be something in the territory of:

Search the play store for "apk extractor"; personally, I've had success with APK-Eviscerator-9000, but there are plenty of others there that may fit your specific use-case.

In that case, it shows effort from the answerer and backs up their response with personal experience.

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    Ouch. Would someone care to explain how this is such a bad answer? General conjecture seems to point to "pointing to where an answer is is not an answer", which I am in agreement for. What I attempted to get across is that offering a solution, and where alternate solutions might be as well is a helpful answer in my opinion.
    – nostalgk
    Jul 30, 2018 at 14:36
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    Just in case you are not aware, votes on meta should be considered something like agree/disagree and don't impact you. But I'd also be interested in hearing the reasoning. I agree with your first paragraph. Jul 30, 2018 at 14:57
  • @NickCardoso I know, I'm not too worried in that regard, just want to know why this answer particularly is being brigaded. Of course, by recognizing it I'm inviting it, but I'm curious to know why.
    – nostalgk
    Jul 30, 2018 at 15:10
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    The personal experience part is useless. At least on my Nexus5X there is no APK-Eviscerator-9000 in the playstore. For the rest: Op didn't ask for a tool. He was interested in accessing the apk folder without root permissions which is not even mentioned in the answer.
    – BDL
    Jul 30, 2018 at 15:21
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    Suppose the Play Store goes dark for an indefinite amount of time. How valuable is an answer that says "search the Play Store" when you can't access the Play Store?
    – Makoto
    Jul 30, 2018 at 17:44
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    @BDL obviously, that was not a real app. It's fair that that is not what OP was asking for, but note that when posting an answer, the site directly says to back up your answer with "personal experience". The sample answer I provided was a hypothetical one.
    – nostalgk
    Jul 30, 2018 at 17:48
  • @Makoto I agree, but naming a specific application at least does open up the potential for a rehost, and is better than posting a link that could die as well.
    – nostalgk
    Jul 30, 2018 at 17:49

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