61

Today I rejected and edited this edit suggestion, because the only changes made were tag edits and I believed there were more to edit in the post (see revision history).

However, after a few minutes the suggested edit proposer left a comment on one of my answers. The comment's intention was to contact me about my decision for his edit suggestion.

screenshot of the conversation


All the comments are now deleted. So I have a bunch of questions.

  • Was my decision incorrect?
  • Is there a proper way for users to contact other users or moderators?
  • How could I have handled this situation better?
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  • 54
    Your best choice would probably have been to flag that comment as not needed or even rude or abusive and move on without leaving a response. Jul 16, 2018 at 18:01
  • 53
    You need to avoid over-reacting to comments, it only ever gets worse. No explanation is necessary, he can get it from meta. Jul 16, 2018 at 18:02
  • 4
    You could have just told them to take it to meta.
    – user4639281
    Jul 16, 2018 at 18:44
  • 14
    It looks like you applied the same tag edits they suggested, along with your other changes. If you agreed with the tag edits, why did you reject them? Jul 16, 2018 at 19:32
  • 3
    Regardless, I do think it was unnecessary for that person to contact you about it, and I would have just ignored them. Jul 16, 2018 at 19:33
  • 21
    The difference between "reject and edit" and "improve" is subtle. I understand "reject and edit" to mean "your edit is wrong, but I agree that this post has issues and I will fix it myself." On the other hand, "improve" indicates "yes, this edit is correct, but there are more changes which should be made." Jul 16, 2018 at 20:05
  • 17
    @Don'tPanic See this meta post. An incomplete edit is a bad edit ("Make your edits as complete as possible"). That isn't to say that all incomplete edits should be rejected, but that an edit that misses obvious improvements (removing tags from the title, improving formatting, removing noise like "hi" and "thanks") should be rejected as a teaching moment for those with less than 2000 rep. However, I probably would have done "accept and improve" myself. Jul 16, 2018 at 20:07
  • 34
    Seems to me the original editor is lazy and just trying to improve his reputation with minimal effort. You were correct to reject his edit. Jul 16, 2018 at 20:11
  • 6
    @RoddyoftheFrozenPeas the rejection message for a reject and edited suggestion is "This edit did not correct critical issues with the post - view the revision history to see what should have been changed". Hence, even if the tiny, trivial edit is an improvement, if it does not correct critical issues with the post, the reject and edit reason should be used. If the remaining issues are not critical, but more a matter of preference, then the improve edit option should be used.
    – user4639281
    Jul 16, 2018 at 20:33
  • 8
    @TinyGiant the directions on the suggested edits page say that you should "Improve Edit when you can make additional improvements to the post" and "Reject and Edit to replace an ineffective edit with your own substantive changes". The edit was not ineffectual, and additional improvements were made. Hence, improve is appropriate. Jul 16, 2018 at 20:52
  • 12
    The edit was ineffective because it did not correct critical issues with the post, hence improve would be inappropriate. @RoddyoftheFrozenPeas
    – user4639281
    Jul 16, 2018 at 20:59
  • 7
    So by your argument it's never appropriate to "improve edit" and one must always "reject and edit", @TinyGiant ? Because under what circumstances can you "make additional improvements to the post" but the original is not "an ineffective edit"? If there were no other problems in the post, the tag edit would have been completely valid and could have stood on its own -- that makes it not ineffective. Jul 16, 2018 at 21:06
  • 6
    If the remaining issues are not critical, but more a matter of preference, then the improve edit option should be used. @RoddyoftheFrozenPeas
    – user4639281
    Jul 16, 2018 at 21:32
  • 8
    @Draco18s The fact an editor did not make the best edit possible is not a valid reason for rejection. Jul 17, 2018 at 8:45
  • 11
    @MarkRotteveel I think the point people in favour of rejecting (and editing) are making is that there's a difference between "not the best edit possible" and "trivial change". The former should be accepted-and-improved; the latter rejected (-and-edited) -- at least partly to dissuade the mass harvesting of +2 Meaningless Internet Points.
    – TripeHound
    Jul 17, 2018 at 10:44

3 Answers 3

36

You handled that perfectly (except perhaps the bolded text). You were patient and explained why the edit was rejected. I reject edits that are minor and overlook other issues in the post. You also could have flagged the comment. Any comment flag type would have been useful.

If the conversation accelerated any comment flag would have sufficed, a mod flag asking for a comment clean up is always good if the comments weren't deleted.

For further meta posts, redacting the user's name from images helps take the focus from the person to the behaviour.

Something was brought to my attention, that I didn't realise when posting this answer. English is a second language (ESL) for the editor and it makes sense there's hesitancy to make edit to problem descriptions. It's an issue that I'm becoming increasingly cognisant of and how it affects the perspective of what is rude and how it affects peoples' behaviour on the site. It's important to be mindful of this and not be too harsh.

This then leaves us with the issue, should tags be edited if there's other issues in the post? For a user with ESL it may be worthwhile making a note that ESL when editing and unsure how to edit descriptions, but wanting to make tag edits.

18
  • On top of that, I'd suggest OP redact the name(s) in their snapshot next time. Jul 17, 2018 at 4:11
  • 2
    @GerardoFurtado yeh there's often debate over that and the meta affect. I think in this case it is better to show the post and the revision and review history to make a complete assessment. The site is transparent, it's a shame we can't evaluate things without the meta effect.
    – user3956566
    Jul 17, 2018 at 4:12
  • Yes, sure, the name(s) are easily found in the review history... but I believe that redacting them not only adds another (very thin) layer of privacy but also shows that OP is interested in discussing the fact, not the people involved. I mean, it's nice seeing that OP redacted the names involved, even if finding those names is still very easy. Jul 17, 2018 at 4:14
  • 1
    @GerardoFurtado done
    – user3956566
    Jul 17, 2018 at 4:21
  • 9
    ThankYou for the answer. I didn't redacted the names because anyone can see the relevant profiles by visiting the links which I have provided in the post, so I felt like there's no point of editing the image. Anyway now someone has edited the image, I'll leave it that way. Jul 17, 2018 at 6:30
  • 2
    @RoshanaPitigala I tend to agree. It's not a big deal, but doesn't hurt to edit it.
    – user3956566
    Jul 17, 2018 at 7:30
  • 19
    I'm surprised to see a moderator posting this answer. The "too minor" edit rejection reason was removed years ago for a reason. See also meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/297817/… Jul 17, 2018 at 8:30
  • 14
    @MarkRotteveel current context is totally different in that rejecting reviewer is now forced to prove their decision by making a sufficiently better improvement which is available for public scrutiny. I think that in this new context "too minor" rejection reasons are valid and legitimate, primarily because it became much harder to abuse them
    – gnat
    Jul 17, 2018 at 12:20
  • @YvetteColomb You may want to redact the link to the edit revision URL, too... otherwise people can type that in and see who the user was.
    – TylerH
    Jul 17, 2018 at 18:45
  • 1
    @TylerH the person in question hasn't had any downvotes as a result of the post, should be ok. And they're written an answer.
    – user3956566
    Jul 17, 2018 at 18:49
  • That post was here: stackoverflow.com/questions/51281908/… The comments were removed for anyone who cares Jul 18, 2018 at 0:55
  • 2
    I personally get pretty annoyed when people start using bold to make their point. Okay, they DID NOT YELL so that is a plus ....
    – rene
    Jul 18, 2018 at 10:24
  • 2
    @YvetteColomb Like I said in my comment on Bharata's answer, I appreciate that for a lot of users English is not their first language, however that still doesn't excuse making edits which result in no improvement (I'm not referring to this case but in general) and it certainly doesn't excuse them retaliating in a comment such as the one in this question upon rejection. Jul 18, 2018 at 13:22
  • 4
    @rene I AGREE Jul 18, 2018 at 18:17
  • 5
    @NickA .. I disagree. We all have different levels of ability, with the technologies we use and in the languages with which we communicate. SO is obviously a mix of technology and language, and we should welcome improvements contributed by people at all levels. I have corrected the grammar and spelling in Java questions from time to time, though I know nothing of Java. Someone with less comfort with English might well contribute by fixing tags to help put the question in front of the right eyes to make the next edit.
    – ghoti
    Jul 19, 2018 at 12:41
5

Generally, I totally agree that trivial edits are bad for the site. If they're "good" edits then by definition they bring "improvements" but if other edits are left behind, especially if they're meaningful, then it forces someone else to edit, which is more work, another edit history to store all the details for, etc etc. If this is someone else without the privilege and so "suggested" then it's another thing to do in the review queue and a handful of users to review it, the edit ability blocked until it's reviewed, etc.

I am totally behind rejecting tiny edits when there are plenty of other things that should have been done, I really am:

James has approved 248 edit suggestions and rejected 295 edit suggestions and improved 50 edit suggestions

However, tags are very important, as they specify who will see a question based on user's fave tags and where they are currently perusing. This should be done very quickly as many questions with specific tags on Stack Overflow have a very short time window to get good eyes on it. If it's badly/incorrectly tagged that time window may be missed.

I don't think there's anything wrong with re-tag only if it's worthwhile. In the edits in the case of this question, there are two views to take:

  1. Maybe there'd have been no harm done taking a bit longer to edit the question as well, as the main tag was "javascript" already on the question so possibly got it's most useful audience anyway
  2. We don't know who has "angular" and "typescript" as ignored tags, so perhaps this didn't hit that useful audience with those on it

But even just from the importance of tag edits and the fact that the suggested edits by Bharata were legitimate and useful, I think the right thing to have done would have been to "improve".

You also have to consider, "what is a trivial edit"? What is and what isn't is entirely ambiguous, with varying opinions in each case. So sure we should "teach" people why not to do trivial edits and so reject them, but we should also be very careful to not waste people's time, and importantly not fight against the same goal.

Original editor wants to make an improvement. Editor who rejected wants to make an improvement, but rejected original editors edits and re-applied them just because they missed a few things.

Again, I'm against trivial edits and ones which are lazy or more should/could have been done, and this is a very grey area to debate, but we have to be very careful what we choose to reject, and have good reasons with all things considered like the good of the site and its users.


Clearing another thing up:
Looking at Bharata's other edit suggestions, they are not just in it for the rep or badges, and can see they put effort in to many edits in the past.

Here are some examples of suggested edits by Bharata:

The most recent 3
https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/20328501
https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/20327867
https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/20327978

The top 3 from page 4 of their suggested edit lists
https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/20282772
https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/20282996
https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/20283478

Of course no reviewer is going to check a user's previous suggested edits before reviewing their current suggested edit, this is obvious. So Roshana Pitigala could not have known the above info before rejecting, just thought it fair to mention as there's a bit of one-sidedness towards Bharata, as it has been said and agreed that their edit was too trivial.

3

Your choice to use "Reject and Edit" was wrong. That the original editor did not correct all problems may be less than optimal, it still improved the post. This is confirmed because you manually incorporated those changes in your own edit, which means you actually did a "Improve Edit" but didn't want to credit the original editor. That is unfriendly and maybe even a bit antisocial.

You should only use "Reject and Edit" if the proposed edit introduces errors, invalid formatting or other problems (and you see things that you can edit to improve).

The "Too Minor" edit rejection reason was removed years ago, because even incomplete improvements are still an improvement.

In short: you should have used "Improve edit".

See also:

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  • 2
    I much prefer this, shifting the focus to the specific post, although I don't agree with "You should only use "Reject and Edit" if the proposed edit introduces errors, invalid formatting or other problems (and you see things that you can edit to improve).". If I come across an edit which only removes the word "Thanks" from the end when there are a number of other changes to make I'll hit reject and edit, even though it is an "improvement". - Not because I want to smite them or anything, but so they can better understand that there is more to fix. People pay more attention to a rejection Jul 17, 2018 at 9:03
  • 6
    @NickA Doing that would go against the guidance of the SE and SO meta posts I link, but on the other hand, I agree that there should be some form of pushback against lazy edit proposals :| Jul 17, 2018 at 9:05
  • 21
    I disagree. When a user is simply rep-farming by adding tags, but not correcting obvious errors, then I will reject-and-edit. Of course, if there is nothing else to correct, and the tag additions are worthwhile, I would approve the edit - farming or otherwise.
    – SiHa
    Jul 17, 2018 at 9:08
  • 7
    @SiHa guilty until proven innocent, eh? Rep farming is a big assumption to make, it can just as easily be someone that just doesn't know the nitty gritty of editing yet and has no clue they're doing something frowned upon.
    – Gimby
    Jul 17, 2018 at 9:12
  • 5
    @Gimby what is frowned upon about correcting tags on a question? Jul 17, 2018 at 9:55
  • 3
    @usr2564301 Going by the guidance I link: yes. And BTW: assuming malicious intent like you and SiHa seem to do is not very friendly. Jul 17, 2018 at 9:55
  • 7
    @SiHa Assuming people are rep-farming when proposing edits is quite a leap (especially as rep-farming goes, proposing edits is not actually worth that much). In addition, in this case the edit may not have corrected everything, but that can also be because of lack of experience or a judgement call (eg some people disagree with removing salutation + thanks, etc) or not 'seeing' other problems for other reasons. Jul 17, 2018 at 9:59
  • @Gimby Not at all. did you read my comment properly? The farming bit, essentially, is irrelevant. If the tag edits are all that is needed and are worthwhile, the I will approve it. If it looks like an inexperienced user, I will sometimes 'improve', but leave a comment as well. As for "guilty until proven innocent", are you telling me that you've never come across multiple tag-only-edits by the same user (with enough rep to know better) in the same review session, and thought that they look a little fishy?
    – SiHa
    Jul 17, 2018 at 10:05
  • @SiHa i will often do tag only edits, for example when an [angular] question is tagged [angularjs], i will always edit it Jul 17, 2018 at 10:08
  • 9
    @mast3rd3mon <sigh> and if that is the only (obvious) edit required, I will approve it. If, on the other hand, the post is littered with "i wanna" and other stuff which really should have been corrected, I will 'reject-and-edit'. If it's more subtle (a question of opinion, maybe, rather than straight grammar / spelling) then I will 'Improve'. Anyway, I've said this three times now - I won't argue further.
    – SiHa
    Jul 17, 2018 at 10:13
  • 1
    @mast3rd3mon nothing, editing specifics rather than everything is.
    – Gimby
    Jul 17, 2018 at 10:40
  • Mark Rotteveel, I very appreciate your post(s). Thank you very much!
    – Bharata
    Jul 17, 2018 at 11:18
  • 4
    Tag edits make life better for people who follow tags and reduce the stress and anger that they sometimes express (which is part of feeling unwelcoming). Plus it makes search work better. I'll reject a remove thanks only edit if more is needed but I won't reject fixing wrong tags.
    – Elin
    Jul 17, 2018 at 12:29

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