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I was browsing the highest voted meta SO questions, and noticed some historically locked posts that seem really out of place (apparently the app shows these even though a regular browser hides them). I checked the help center to see the signifiance of historical locks:

cherished cultural artifact would otherwise be deleted;

Who decides these are cherished? After reading some lash backs it seems they really are not. I can imagine only one good reason to keep these - an example of a really bad post, so new users can see and learn what not to do. The wording above suggests this is not the case, so

what contribution do these have to the SO objective?

If they are left as examples, I think it should be made clear. If not, I think the wording should change. Maybe

... had a significant impact on the community, leading either to divisiveness or unprofessional and broad content being posted and discussed.

This should also be written on the lock banner itself, to make it clear to new users.

I know we can debate individual questions, a-la Can we unlock an offtopic question, that doesn't seem to provide historical value, so we can vote on deleting it?, but that would just stir up more bad content. Getting rid of these (if desired) really needs to be through a flagging mechanism.

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    These locks are usually not given lightly, and on high-view high-traffic questions. Why should it be easy to delete them, and go without discussion? I think the current way (discussing individual cases) is good. I don't think these discussions stir up more bad content.
    – Erik A
    Commented Jul 11, 2018 at 13:49
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    @ErikvonAsmuth I do not want to provide links, so my apologies in advance, but I think I see a lot of these indeed discussed, with most top voted answers on the negative side ( as in this should not be here) - and then they are locked. Reading the top voted answers, one does not get the impression the entire community cherishes these. The lock seems like a dictate to be honest (just my thoughts looking on these in retrospect).
    – kabanus
    Commented Jul 11, 2018 at 13:51
  • Also it's been 12 minutes and seems like I'm cuasing more of this divisiveness just by this question. I'll delete it if it gets to bad (as in less discussion, more vote war).
    – kabanus
    Commented Jul 11, 2018 at 13:53
  • Without examples, discussing this is pretty hard. The lock indeed locks out the community, and leaves it to the moderators to edit/delete these. You can modflag. Note that downvotes indicate disagreement on meta, and a discussion where we disagree with the author can be valuable. No need to delete this thread yet imo, you wont lose rep.
    – Erik A
    Commented Jul 11, 2018 at 13:54
  • @ErikvonAsmuth I know, thanks. I just do not want to stir up demons.
    – kabanus
    Commented Jul 11, 2018 at 13:54

1 Answer 1

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Who decides these are cherished?

Moderators are the ones to take the actual actions to lock or unlock a post, although they're highly encouraged to base their decisions on community feedback, and they largely do so. You'll find that most locked posts have meta discussions about them (sometimes many, for the most popular or controversial ones). If you feel that a particular post should or shouldn't be locked, make a convincing argument in a meta proposal, and there is wide agreement with your proposed locking/unlocking, moderators typically honor such community decisions (although they may wait a little bit for everyone who is interested to have a chance to weigh in on the post before acting).

After reading some lash backs it seems they really are not.

Some more so than others. It's certainly true that desire to have posts locked has generally trended downward over time. Posts are generally being unlocked faster than they're being locked. This is mostly due to the fact that most locked posts were posted before the site had settled on what should be on topic, but once it settled down after the first few years it has not made dramatic changes, so you don't see posts that are on topic, become wildly successful, and then become off topic. Newer posts either stay on topic, or were off topic when posted, and so end up being moderated before they become so wildly successful that they need to be locked rather than deleted.

I can imagine only one good reason to keep these - an example of a really bad post

That's most certainly not why they're kept. They're kept because they are of enormous value despite the fact that they're off topic. They're kept because the have lots of very useful information that is not as accessible elsewhere, and/or that is widely referenced here (such that removing it would break a large number of incoming links).

If a post is not of very, very large value, it should not be locked. If it is locked, it should be unlocked.

... had a significant impact on the community, leading either to divisiveness or unprofessional and broad content being posted and discussed.

Posts that are divisive and unprofessional shouldn't be locked at all. Locking is for posts that would otherwise merit closure (most commonly as too broad, less commonly for being opinion based, very rarely for any other reason) but that has answers of considerable value posted despite the problems that those types of questions typically present. (It's worth noting at this point that questions being too broad or opinion based means that they very rarely result in useful answers, which is why they're closed and not considered welcome. We've made the decision as a community that it's not worth the rare gem in exchange for all of the bad questions and answers that would result from allowing these types of questions. But the decision was made to not delete the rare gem that did get posted before we came to that realization. Hence the invention of the historical lock.)

Getting rid of these (if desired) really needs to be through a flagging mechanism.

There are two main problems with this. One, it means that decisions end up being made on whether to lock or unlock a post based on moderators in private, rather than publicly by the whole community. Forcing people to post on meta allows the entire community to weigh in on whether or not a post should be unlocked or locked, which is desirable given their impact. And two, there would just be too many flags for moderators to deal with them, because they are of course off topic, and so lots of people will keep trying to flag posts to say that they're off topic, when of course that's well known. Forcing people to post on meta ensures that they need to put enough thought and effort into the situation to ask a question, which both means that they're more likely to familiarize themselves with what historical locks are, how they work, and what should be said in a proposal to unlock a post, and also means people just won't bother unless they feel really strongly about a post, which is good because they should feel very strongly about it if there is actually grounds to change the lock status of a post.

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  • This is a great answer thanks. I guess I'm seeing the highest voted of these questions is biasing me against seeing those with good content.
    – kabanus
    Commented Jul 11, 2018 at 13:57
  • One question - if there is a large minority on a popular, unuseful question (opinion based of course) - do they have any recourse?
    – kabanus
    Commented Jul 11, 2018 at 13:59
  • @kabanus A large minority thinking what? Thinking that it's unuseful? You merely state, conclusively, that your hypothetical post isn't useful, and yet also seem to imply that a majority think it is useful. That said, one can't really consider such a hypothetical. Those thinking it is or isn't useful can provide their opinions in a meta discussion. The moderators will consider those opinions (both the votes in support of each action, and the actual arguments themselves) and make a final decision.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 11, 2018 at 14:03
  • They won't necessarily just take whatever action gets the most votes; these decisions aren't strictly popularity contests, but they will certainly take the votes into consideration though. Also note that a proposal that has wide support for one action or another, but that gets a fairly small amount of activity in general, may not result in the proposed action taken, simply because if only a small number of people felt the need to weight in, it may not meet the bar needed to make or remove a lock. You need a lot of evidence to justify action.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 11, 2018 at 14:03
  • I get your logic, though a majority can think a post is a "gem" (of course, majority of people who would bother getting involved in the first place) but the content does not provide a contribution. even if only 51% like a question because it makes them feel good, a 1% difference in a giant community can add up to a very positive score. In anycase, the bottom line if I understand you correctly is it is up to the mods who do there best. Still bothers me we would call it "cherished" in these cases (maybe rare cases?).
    – kabanus
    Commented Jul 11, 2018 at 14:09
  • @kabanus Like I said, this is not just a popularity content in which the actual arguments for or against the usefulness of a post aren't considered. If a post is demonstrably not containing useful information, but is merely entertaining, getting it locked is unlikely, and getting it deleted tends to be rather easy, regardless of how many people wish it were around. (There was a time where that wasn't true, namely around the time locks were first introduced, but that time is long gone.)
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 11, 2018 at 14:12

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