-33

I got this question on the review queues. I can clearly see that the question should be closed, but...

We've just been told that we should be nicer to new users. This post was by a newbie with a rep of 1 -- a new user. I don't want to close salvageable posts by new community members. I'd rather just ask them questions in the comments and massage the question into a good state.

So, I voted to not close it.

But apparently, I'm wrong. Despite assertions from the leadership-committee that we're not doing enough to help introduce people to the community, I've been slapped on my wrist for trying to do exactly that.

Where is the consistency? What should I do?

-- ps: The slap on the wrist was a failed review audit.

19
  • 15
    use votes appropriately. Use comments to request clarification or suggest improvements. Use the tools available. Don't circumvent the quality controls and tools due to someone's rep.
    – Kevin B
    May 24, 2018 at 15:31
  • 5
    By nicer, I don't think they meant drop all standards of questions. I think it was more pointed towards comments / interactions with new users. As it currently stands, that question is too broad, it might have been better if they at least had some sort of coded attempt.
    – Script47
    May 24, 2018 at 15:31
  • 2
    How exactly did you get "slapped on my wrist"? May 24, 2018 at 15:34
  • 1
    @AndréKool The question had already been closed a month ago. It looks like OP failed a review audit. May 24, 2018 at 15:35
  • @IncreasinglyIdiotic thats also my guess but its not very clear from the question right now. If that is indeed the case the discussion should be about : "Review audits need to be more welcoming!" May 24, 2018 at 15:37
  • 44
    Audits are based on decisions by community members, not SO employees that write crappy blog posts and never show up at the site. May 24, 2018 at 15:38
  • 4
    Note that closing a question and massaging it into shape are not mutually exclusive. We have the ability to reopen. So close it (because it's not appropriate in the current state) and take all the time you need to make it better. Once done, vote to reopen.
    – Bart
    May 24, 2018 at 15:45
  • 1
    @Bart I'd say that if you have all of the tools at your disposal to turn the question into an appropriate one, all on your own, and you want to do so, then just do it, don't vote to close. Voting to close is there for if you aren't going to immediately fix whatever problems would merit closure (which, for the record, is typical. It's pretty uncommon for a question to merit closure but to be salvageable by a reader on their own with the OP's input).
    – Servy
    May 24, 2018 at 15:46
  • 1
    @Servy sure, if you can right there and then, fine. But the OP mentioned engaging in a back and forth in the comments. In that case going through a closed state may not be a bad thing depending on how quick and easily it is resolved.
    – Bart
    May 24, 2018 at 15:48
  • 3
    Remember -- downvotes and closevotes are not unwelcoming.
    – user202729
    May 24, 2018 at 16:11
  • Use your votes appropriately, but (optionally) leave a helpful comment to the OP, or at least never leave rude comments.
    – user202729
    May 24, 2018 at 16:11
  • 1
    @user202729, "down/close votes are not unwelcoming", well, we've heard dissenting voices in this regard from inside the company. And not the usual tech folks that are meta regulars, as Hans aptly put it, folks "that never show up at the site".
    – brasofilo
    May 25, 2018 at 6:01
  • 1
    @HansPassant if you have something to say about the blog post, post a question or answer. Stop littering the site with snarky comments about it.
    – user3956566
    May 26, 2018 at 8:53
  • 6
    @Yvette, please learn how to use and moderate meta. The Q+A engine is not adapt at supporting the essentials of discussion, the back-and-forth that is necessary to conduct one cannot happen from the soap-boxes that are answers. And please stop getting annoyed at my opinions, we already know that you don't like them. You'll have to live with them, I already learned to live with yours. It is not that hard, takes but to appreciate a basic level of respect for fellow human beings. That you chose to chastise me instead of blindly deleting the comment, hey, that's progress. Keep at it. May 26, 2018 at 9:06
  • 1
    @HansPassant it's the reactions of other users. Honestly, as a mod, I'm remaining impartial to your comments and probably appreciate you more (ironically). I'm only saying something, due to the flags and other comments, maybe just try and be less sardonic. You do have a good wit, I grant you that. You know I copped it, not deleting one of your comments. We may not agree, but you're interesting and I actually do respect your opinions.
    – user3956566
    May 26, 2018 at 9:11

1 Answer 1

59

You should have closed the question.

The question is:

  • Too broad ("is there a better way" or "is there a best way"-type questions tend to fall here anyway)
  • Inspecific (what do they mean by "sloppy"?)
  • Not likely to be of lasting value

The comments in the question were incredibly civil and polite, and went a way to explain to the OP that their question wasn't suitable for the site.

Being nice doesn't mean we change what we moderate on. We can moderate questions and not be jerks about it, is all.

More importantly...

If you think closing a question makes you a "jerk", I respectfully ask that you not participate in moderation any more. You'll be paralyzed by that stigma and you won't get anywhere with moderating or cleaning up bad questions.

9
  • 21
    If closing questions makes you a jerk I qualify for being a top jerk. I guess that fits, somehow ...
    – rene
    May 24, 2018 at 15:48
  • 13
    New feature request: rename "close votes" to "jerk votes".
    – E_net4
    May 24, 2018 at 16:22
  • @rene I agree with that assessment. But, in my eyes, that is unrelated to you closing questions ;). (I kid, I kid)
    – Patrice
    May 24, 2018 at 17:00
  • 2
    I'm still hungry after the sushi answer, so how about 'jerky votes'? May 25, 2018 at 8:13
  • Thanks. I'm not worried about being a jerk -- I usually am. I'm just a little confused as to how to implement the 'be nice' standards without further guidance. May 25, 2018 at 23:40
  • 1
    @EngineerDollery: Nothing has changed about what we moderate. It seems to be simpler to perform the moderation duties (downvoting, close voting) in silence instead of commenting on the question.
    – Makoto
    May 26, 2018 at 21:23
  • @makoto There are many people in the world, some of them get some sort of weird pleasure calling others jerks. Honestly, there is always a balance in deciding to close a post or not. Many questions are insta-close, some are salvable, and some are closed even when they are seen as clear and valid questions by others who can understand the question better than the closer. Moderation is important, but not running off users is important too. However, stating that not being aware of possibly being a jerk makes you a good moderator is dangerous talk. We all should be aware if we "jerk" others.
    – Edwin Buck
    Feb 27, 2022 at 14:10
  • @EdwinBuck One would rather educate users not to take curation personally. That is irrespective of how people behave towards each other. Name calling is not tolerated here. And this answer does not make the implication that you suggest at the end: "heavy handed moderation does not make you a jerk"; not "being a jerk contributes to good moderation".
    – E_net4
    Feb 27, 2022 at 14:23
  • @E_net4standswithUkraine Well, I agree fully that trying to please everyone is often a recipe for disaster. As far as "education" accompanying closed items, Some do a better job than others in directing new users to educational links, and many new users aren't going to do their due diligence even with educational material. I agree that not being a jerk contributes to good moderation, and my qualm is with the last statement "if you think closing a question makes you a jerk, [you shouldn't moderate]" it has many possible meanings, the one here is benign, but it can be read as cancerous too.
    – Edwin Buck
    Feb 27, 2022 at 17:49

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .